I don't doubt that the majority of taxpayers got some type of tax cut. The information you site seems to reflect what was promised. The top 5% got a reduction of about 4-5%. The lowest about 1-2%. My son, who grosses about $40k saw a reduction of about 1%. That $400 was a paltry sum compared to the $765,000 tax cut to the CEO of United Healthcare, who pocketed about $17 million this past year, will likely receive.
Both parties are motivated by one thing only. Power and control. They will say and do anything to gain and keep it. We are governed by tyrants and their moneymen here in the US and throughout the world. Seems like I have heard something about that somewhere.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
There was also a lot of lying about the size of the tax cut for the middle class, and the benefits to be enjoyed (both absolutely and relative to the very wealthy). That was the whole point of the change to withholding regs--to make it seem like a tax cut when it was not. As I tried to say and Utopia said better, the benefits to most of us are minimal at best.
Do you really think the Repubs went to all that trouble to pass a bill that would benefit only the very wealthy? Was there no principle motivating them, even if it is misguided? I mean, I love you guys, but that is the kind of simplistic thinking on both sides of the aisle that has the country in such a polarized state right now.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Please. This coming from the guy who says the libs lie more than conservatives even though the president is a pathological, compulsive liar. I said the tax cut overwhelmingly benefitted the very wealthy and corporations (which have used the money largely for stock buy backs, not reinvestment). It could have been structured much differently to benefit the middle class more (by getting rid of the carried interest rule, for one small example, taxing investment income and capital gains the same as or much closer to ordinary income for another). The principle was tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts to the exclusion of everything else. It has been the motivating principle of Paul Ryan's career, but enacted without a way to pay for them, except by cutting benefits later. The principle is to undermine the welfare state. You think that isnt true?
Sometimes I think you are so blinded by your preconceptions that you cant see what is in front of you. So there.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
As a person who doesn’t like Trump, I still think Trump Derangement Syndrome exists and is at work here. I think the Democrats are quite disingenuous in the way they describe the bill. No legislation is perfect, I didn’t like it, but it isn’t what they say it is — a major sellout to the rich. You are not pushing that narrative, but people like Nancy Pelosi are, and it is a “big lie” tactic.
And the GOP Congress during the first 2 years of Trump were the gang that couldn't shoot straight. Pathetic.
So THERE!
Last edited by LA Ute; 04-10-2019 at 05:42 PM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I agree with this. The parties lie and twist everything. They show no respect for their voters, assuming that most are too dumb to know they are being lied to and knowing that most of the rest won't mind the lies anyway.
Everything is cast in terms of the most simplistic accusations of good and evil. What's ironic is that we finally have a president who actually can be cast that way, but the effect has been overused and worn out.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
The hugh lie was that the cuts would be revenue neutral. The cuts were ideological, and not targeted for the rich. They were premised upon the trickle down, supply side theory, which should be shelved with communism as pipe dream theories. (Sorry, this is not well said, but I'm sick.)
I was listening to a podcast about an experiment with an easy tax form in California. It was hugely successful, so they started asking around to see what it would take to push this form on the Federal level. They got lots of pushback from congressmen on making the tax for simpler. Mainly from places you wouldn't expect: Republican congressmen want to keep the tax form complicated so taxpayers stay angry about taxes.
Podcast:
Planet Money
April 3, 2019
The Tax Hero
The tax bill was not Congress’s most shining moment — the GOP for passing a weird, ideological, punitive bill that might have produced some positive effects, but we’ll never know; and the Dems for aggressively and consistently saying it was a tax increase for less well-off people. It weren’t and it ain’t.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
This is pretty funny. You've got to read the whole thing, but here's an excerpt:
http://www.breakingburgh.com/ecuador...-airbnb-again/“You just don’t know who you’re going to get.”
Staff listed a spare room in the Embassy figuring it would be easy money given the desirable central London location, though they only intended to rent it on weekends during the summer.
“Instead this guy arrives and refuses to ever leave....”
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
How will we never know? Economists predicted there would be a short term stimulus effect, which there was. With a deficit increase, which there has been.
Many economists are now saying that unless there's something that nudges this very long expansion into recession, we're tending back toward growth around 2% or just above. The stimulus has worn off.... but the elevated deficit levels are still with us.
Nothing from our resident expert on which party is the most cynical about Trump's push to send asylum seekers to sanctuary cities?
Last edited by LA Ute; 04-12-2019 at 09:38 PM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
From that right-wing rag, the New York Times:
Face It: You (Probably) Got a Tax Cut
Studies consistently find that the 2017 law cut taxes for most Americans. Most of them don’t buy it....
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
In addition to being the Gang that Couldn't Shoot Straight, they refused to work with Obama. Obama also refused to work with them. His inexperience in national politics and his Chicago take-no-prisoners, "we won, so shut up" attitude, along with his arrogance, kept him from being the president he could have been. For there to be compromise at the federal level, I think it has to start with the POTUS. Examples: LBJ, Reagan, GHW Bush, Clinton, GW Bush.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Well, that's a new take:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/12/polit...ile/index.htmlOriginally Posted by Stephen Moore
We're going to have to agree to disagree on who refused to work with who. When McConnell said he would do everything he could do to block anything Obama wanted to do, then he rises to the top of the list. You can't convince me that his attitude arose only after two years of Obama's administration. Obama made efforts to cross over on immigration and infrastructure, and was rebuked. The Republicans' indifference about deficits on the tax bill only magnifies their interest in frustrating Obama on the infrastructure issue.
In other words, same old argument.
No kidding. Obama had a deal with Boehner on the budget. Boehner couldn't sell it to the Freedom Caucus/Tea Party. Agreement was always impossible because Boehner couldn't deliver (and feared) the right wing, unless everyone capitulated to the right wing. (Since Boehner was never willing to abandon the Hastert rule.)
Last edited by concerned; 04-16-2019 at 09:07 AM.
Yes, we can agree to disagree. I did say the Republicans were (and are) the gang that couldn't shoot straight. They were idiots about cooperating with the Obama White House. The Freedom Caucus is a bunch of people more beholden to their donors -- or more charitably, to their base -- than to their constituents or to the country. (This malady is not confined to Republicans!) They regularly gum up the works of Congress.
But President Obama doesn't get a pass. When Republicans did try to reach out to him, he infamously reminded them that elections have consequences: "I won." Well, that's one way of looking at our system of checks and balances. It probably works better in Chicago than in Washington. He's also the guy who said "I have a phone and a pen" and often tried to rule by executive order. (Not the only president to do that. Doesn't make it right.) That he was slaughtered in both midterm congressional elections during his two terms suggests that the electorate was unhappy with his approach.
Look, when Medicare was enacted it was a huge change in the country's approach to how health care works. Over half the Republicans in the House voted for it. Almost half the Republicans in the Senate did too. Lyndon Johnson knew how to work compromises and bipartisan legislation. And...those laws have endured. I don't think Republicans were simply more reasonable in those days.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Well, we have had this disagreement before. Obama did compromise on Obamacare, that is why he went with Romneycare instead of single payer--it was a Republican idea (Heritage Foundation). Health care was all or nothing; you were either going to enact it or you weren't. Republicans were not going to accept it in any form (because it was Obamacare and not Romneycare, IMHO). What was their rejected compromise? Obama also compromised on the size of the stimulus. Dems wanted a much larger stimulus. There was also potential compromise on immigration until your brave guy Rubio and others walked away from their own deal under fear of the Tea Party.
Obama went with executive order (not saying it was right or wrong) because there was no compromise to be had. Your idea of compromise is capitulation.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell