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Thread: Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

  1. #1471
    On a scale of 1 to 10, what is your level of confidence with what will go on in D.C. in general, and the national economy, over the next six months, with 10 being the future is so bright global warming will speed up by a decade, and 1 being whoopy we're all gonna die.

  2. #1472
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    On a scale of 1 to 10, what is your level of confidence with what will go on in D.C. in general, and the national economy, over the next six months, with 10 being the future is so bright global warming will speed up by a decade, and 1 being whoopy we're all gonna die.
    5. I'm an optimist.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #1473
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

    ”Such gratuitously negative reporting undermines the credibility of the press without Mr. Trump having to say a word."

    Writes the Editorial Board of The Wall Street Journal.

    They are talking about the first 2 paragraphs of the Washington Post's report on Trump's trip to Iraq:
    President Trump touched down Wednesday in Iraq in his first visit to a conflict zone as commander in chief, a week after announcing a victory over the Islamic State that his own Pentagon and State Department days earlier said remained incomplete.

    The president’s visit to Al Asad Air Base west of Baghdad, which was shrouded in secrecy, follows months of public pressure for him to spend time with troops deployed to conflicts in the Middle East and punctuates the biggest week of turmoil the Pentagon has faced during his presidency.
    In the words of the WSJ: "[C]an anyone reading those opening two sentences wonder why millions of Americans believe Donald Trump when he tells them that he can’t get a fair shake from the press?"

    I'll just add that I can barely read the news these days (and I absolutely cannot watch it on TV). The negativity toward Trump is so relentless, cluttering up everything. It's crying wolf times a thousand. If anything is worth taking seriously, I'm afraid I won't be able to notice.
    https://althouse.blogspot.com/2018/1...rting.html?m=1
    Last edited by LA Ute; 12-28-2018 at 01:16 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #1474
    Trump is to blame for this, but things are sure petty. Sadly this sort of noise distracts from the real issues going on right now.

  5. #1475
    It's been done before.

    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #1476
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyUte View Post
    It's been done before.

    Lucky, I am too obtuse to get it. What has been done before? Are you seriously equating GWB with the orange man?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #1477
    I get the sense a lot of people have tuned out on the day-to-day news, but feel comforted that the House is in a position to be a counter balance, and that Mueller is doing his job.

    The poll numbers for Mueller & Trump reflect the general sense that Trump simply isn't credible, and Mueller - though he never speaks - has America's interests at heart.

    For those who pay close attention, the unfolding story is pretty intense. Those who were around for Watergate - Dean, Woodward, Bernstein, many others - say this makes Watergate look pretty tame.

    There's speculation if money came from Russia and the evidence is as strong as Mueller seems to demand, support among DC Republicans could erode substantially. I have a hard time seeing how Republican support could evaporate as quickly as it did for Nixon - 55 down to 15% in a couple of months - but if somebody like Romney wants to lead a revival of the orthodox GOP, the opportunity might be coming up.

  8. #1478
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I’m considered a squish on immigration issues by many conservatives’ standards. I disagree with Romney on the issue, for example. Still, the linked Washington Post article and this commentary on it is fascinating to me.

    https://althouse.blogspot.com/2018/1...ngton.html?m=1

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #1479
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #1480
    Talking to some federal employees who are required to work right now with pay and the obviously are not happy. They recently received a sample letter to send to creditors if they need.

    Pretty disgusting to use the people who work for you as pawns, I don't know how Trump can stand to live with himself.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #1481
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Lucky, I am too obtuse to get it. What has been done before? Are you seriously equating GWB with the orange man?
    I am not sure if you are being snarky or serious, so I will assume you are serious.

    I do not mean to compare directly GWB to DJT, but to provide one example of where a military campaign was claimed to have been completed when it was clearly not complete. This is the passage in the article (that was also in your snip) that caught my attention, "President Trump touched down Wednesday in Iraq in his first visit to a conflict zone as commander in chief, a week after announcing a victory over the Islamic State that his own Pentagon and State Department days earlier said remained incomplete."

    I am sure there are others, but this is the one that came to mind when I read your referenced article. If there are differences that I am not seeing on the surface level at which I am admittedly viewing it, I would be glad to be educated.

  12. #1482
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyUte View Post
    I am not sure if you are being snarky or serious, so I will assume you are serious.

    I do not mean to compare directly GWB to DJT, but to provide one example of where a military campaign was claimed to have been completed when it was clearly not complete. This is the passage in the article (that was also in your snip) that caught my attention, "President Trump touched down Wednesday in Iraq in his first visit to a conflict zone as commander in chief, a week after announcing a victory over the Islamic State that his own Pentagon and State Department days earlier said remained incomplete."

    I am sure there are others, but this is the one that came to mind when I read your referenced article. If there are differences that I am not seeing on the surface level at which I am admittedly viewing it, I would be glad to be educated.
    I was being serious. I see what you meant now. Calling ISIS “the JayVee” is a similar example. Trump, however, operates at an entirely different level of mindless bluster.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  13. #1483
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    This is a thought-provoking take.

    How the Trump presidency made me a better American

    https://nypost.com/2018/12/30/how-th...tter-american/

    (Spoiler: It didn’t have that effect because of any charitable intent on Trump’s part.)

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #1484
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Mitt announces his intentions:

    Opinion | Mitt Romney: A president shapes the nation’s character. Trump’s falls short.
    The Washington Post


    “The people of this country will respond if called to a higher action.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.97068730a444

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #1485
    Hope Bill is right. Also hope this is awkward for Ronna Romney McDaniel

    Mike Murphy liked
    Bill KristolVerified account @BillKristol 2h2 hours agoMore



    Romney’s op-ed is a shot across the bow. Some are disappointed because it’s not a full-on assault on the Trump battleship. But it is a shot. And shots across the bow are often followed by real boarding parties.

  16. #1486
    Karen TumultyVerified account @ktumulty 2m2 minutes agoMore

    Also the Conway family.


    Matt SchlappVerified account @mschlapp

    Trump is really divisive...to the Romney family.


  17. #1487
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    It strikes me that the seat gained by the GOP in the Senate may not be as useful as it seems given Romney's views on Trump.

  18. #1488
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Mitt announces his intentions:

    Opinion | Mitt Romney: A president shapes the nation’s character. Trump’s falls short.
    The Washington Post


    “The people of this country will respond if called to a higher action.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.97068730a444
    Mitt's right, but I think his attack is premature. Right now he's being dismissed as a sore loser - basically another whiner, like Hillary - where (IMO) he needed to put this out when more of the heavy stuff comes out, when Trump & his 2020 campaign manager have much larger punches to worry about.

    Hope there's a lot more material to come.

    OTOH, getting this out now puts him in place to say "I talked about character before Mueller's bombshells. Character matters, folks".
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 01-02-2019 at 10:55 AM.

  19. #1489
    Unrelated to Romney or Trump, China & Japan have both been dumping US treasuries / no longer buying newly issued T-Bills. China previously held 22% of our federal debt, which is now down to 18%, and Japan's share has dropped from 21% to 16%. Some speculate this is China retaliating for the trade tensions, but more likely, they're seeing the need to diversify their investments away from US sovereign debt. (This reason parallels why Japan would be doing the same, since Japan's exposure to Trump's trade threats is less acute.)

    This may be playing into the calculus Powell uses to bump up interest rates - which in turn leads to Trump talking about firing him. More signs are pointing to a global slowdown / recession, which would force Powell to increase rates to attract buyers of US debt. Of course, higher rates increase our deficit, which has remained "lower" because interest payments have been so low.

    If the US enters recession, it would explode the deficit, already nearly $1T per year, nearing 5% of our GDP... during one of the longest expansions on record.

    While the Fed has started to slowly "unwind" the Quantitative Easing used to avoid a full blown Depression during the Great Recession, because we have almost no maneuvering room on the federal fiscal front there may need to be a grand bargain on entitlement reform, lower defense spending, and reversing some of the tax cuts.

    *This* is why you don't want perpetual deficit spending during boom times, and why the great majority of economists were against the tax cuts
    . (Apples & Oranges, but for comparison, Canada typically runs a very small budget surplus, and ran small deficits during the Great Recession.)

  20. #1490
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Unrelated to Romney or Trump, China & Japan have both been dumping US treasuries / no longer buying newly issued T-Bills. China previously held 22% of our federal debt, which is now down to 18%, and Japan's share has dropped from 21% to 16%. Some speculate this is China retaliating for the trade tensions, but more likely, they're seeing the need to diversify their investments away from US sovereign debt. (This reason parallels why Japan would be doing the same, since Japan's exposure to Trump's trade threats is less acute.)

    This may be playing into the calculus Powell uses to bump up interest rates - which in turn leads to Trump talking about firing him. More signs are pointing to a global slowdown / recession, which would force Powell to increase rates to attract buyers of US debt. Of course, higher rates increase our deficit, which has remained "lower" because interest payments have been so low.

    If the US enters recession, it would explode the deficit, already nearly $1T per year, nearing 5% of our GDP... during one of the longest expansions on record.

    While the Fed has started to slowly "unwind" the Quantitative Easing used to avoid a full blown Depression during the Great Recession, because we have almost no maneuvering room on the federal fiscal front there may need to be a grand bargain on entitlement reform, lower defense spending, and reversing some of the tax cuts.

    *This* is why you don't want perpetual deficit spending during boom times, and why the great majority of economists were against the tax cuts
    . (Apples & Oranges, but for comparison, Canada typically runs a very small budget surplus, and ran small deficits during the Great Recession.)
    There's also this nugget that came out over the holidays.

    China imports zero U.S. soybeans in November for first time since trade war started
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/c...-trade-n951556

  21. #1491
    George Conway gets more and more liberated/brazen with each passing day. I cant figure out if he is trying to get Kellyanne to quit or get fired, or just get her completely isolated in the West Wing. she must be in on it, and both of them must see this as a way to protect their backsides after she or Trump is gone.



    George Conway@gtconway3d 2h2 hours ago

    George Conway Retweeted Josh Dawsey

    George Conway added

    Ah, yes. How many times have we seen this now? Undercut and contradict your representatives so no one will deal with them. Nothing gets accomplished, but at least you remain the center of focus, because that’s the only thing that matters.The Narcissist’s Art of the Deal.

    Josh Dawsey@jdawsey1

    Trump continues to confound as a negotiator to allies and foes alike. How Trump’s White House is handling the shutdown negotiations w/@seungminkim: https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...8c7_story.html



  22. #1492

    Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    George Conway gets more and more liberated/brazen with each passing day. I cant figure out if he is trying to get Kellyanne to quit or get fired, or just get her completely isolated in the West Wing. she must be in on it, and both of them must see this as a way to protect their backsides after she or Trump is gone.



    George Conway@gtconway3d 2h2 hours ago

    George Conway Retweeted Josh Dawsey

    George Conway added

    Ah, yes. How many times have we seen this now? Undercut and contradict your representatives so no one will deal with them. Nothing gets accomplished, but at least you remain the center of focus, because that’s the only thing that matters.The Narcissist’s Art of the Deal.

    Josh Dawsey@jdawsey1

    Trump continues to confound as a negotiator to allies and foes alike. How Trump’s White House is handling the shutdown negotiations w/@seungminkim: https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...8c7_story.html


    From everything I’ve seen, I would bet that what George Conway is wanting to get is divorced.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  23. #1493
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    George Conway gets more and more liberated/brazen with each passing day. I cant figure out if he is trying to get Kellyanne to quit or get fired, or just get her completely isolated in the West Wing. she must be in on it, and both of them must see this as a way to protect their backsides after she or Trump is gone.
    I wondered how things might be going in the Conway household. Are they talking? What do the kids think of all this? Or maybe they're just playing their work roles, tell the kids to ignore all that, and all is well. While Kellyanne is a strong PR presence, there has to be only so much BS they can juggle. Even Sarah Sander has pulled back to once a month, and often shuts down the press conference because many of the topics are so difficult to defend, for any person with a conscience.

  24. #1494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    From everything I’ve seen, I would bet that what George Conway is wanting to get is divorced.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'm with Concerned. I think it's planned. If there was any dirty laundry out there on George, Kellyanne (or another Trump sycophant) would've released it to embarrass him. Or Kellyanne has as much dirt out there about her, leading to MAD if one struck first. Can you imagine if this is all part of a plan for George to run for Senate in 2022 or President in 2024?

  25. #1495
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Confessions of a Russiagate agnostic

    by Philip Klein
    | January 10, 2019 10:35 AM

    I’ll admit it: I’m a Russiagate agnostic.

    I’m perfectly open to the possibility that President Trump (or his campaign) colluded with Russians to influence the outcome of the 2016 election, but I just want to see evidence that proves it.

    Being agnostic about Russiagate is challenging for a political commentator. Russia has dominated the news for the past two years, and people on each side have passionate and confidently held views. It seems either they’re convinced that Trump colluded and attempted to cover it up, or they’re convinced that it’s all a nothingburger cooked up to delegitimize the Trump presidency.

    On such a polarizing issue that’s played a central role in our political debate, it’s been difficult to take a wait and see approach before forming a strong opinion. But it’s also hard to feel confident about any narrative without knowing more.

    In the absence of any report from special counsel Robert Mueller, much of the commentary involves speculation about what he does or doesn’t know. Those convinced Trump is being railroaded assume Mueller just keeps dragging out the investigation because he’s found nothing, while those convinced of his guilt assume Mueller is slowly and carefully building a case that will corner Trump.

    I’ve been reluctant to get too far ahead of my skis in either proclaiming Trump’s innocence or declaring his guilt.

    What’s made me particularly wary is that there has been a steady stream of stories that have been promoted as being “bombshells,” that either end up being corrected, and/or turn out upon further analysis and with the benefit of context, to be less dispositive than initially advertised.

    A perfect example is the recent revelation in the New York Times that former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort “shared political polling data with a business associate tied to Russian intelligence.”

    When the news first broke, cries of “Wow!”; “OMG”; and “BOOM!” erupted on Twitter. CNN’s Chris Cillizza, a useful barometer of conventional wisdom, recounted the Times story and concluded, “ That. Is. Huge.”

    But was it? Not so fast, said none other than Benjamin Wittes, a close friend of former FBI Director James Comey who called for Trump’s impeachment way back in 2017. Writing on his Lawfare blog, Wittes cautioned that the sharing of polling data could have just as easily been explained as being part of Manafort’s shady business dealings that involved peddling his ties to Trump rather than clear evidence of collusion.

    “This is not to splash cold water on the story, which is certainly tantalizing,” Wittes wrote. “It is to say that Manafort's lawyers' general characterization of Mueller's allegations about Manafort's conduct in the context of a dispute over whether Manafort violated his plea agreement or not offers a highly imperfect window into Mueller's understanding of that evidence and how it fits into the larger picture of interactions between the Trump campaign and the Russian state.”

    After Wittes wrote that, the Times issued an embarrassing correction, which further undermined the idea that the story demonstrated collusion. The story initially said that Manafort had wanted his Russian contact, Konstantin V. Kilimnik, to pass along the polling data to Oleg V. Deripaska, described as “a Russian oligarch close to the Kremlin.” However, the correction said that Manafort had actually asked for the data to be shared with two Ukrainian oligarchs.

    To be sure, the oligarchs are known to be Russia-friendly, so the correction does not necessarily disprove the idea that this had something to do with collusion. But it strengthens the case that it more likely has to do with Mueller’s investigations into Manafort’s business dealings.

    At the same time, it’s quite possible, as some have suggested, that Mueller is holding his cards close to his vest, and actually has much more than he’s letting on. But there’s no way of knowing until it’s time for him to reveal his hand. In the meantime we’re just getting glimpses of random cards in the deck and speculating on the rest.

    The speculation has been repeatedly wrong -- even when it comes to something as basic as whether the investigation is nearing its conclusion.
    I support letting the Mueller investigation run its course. And when it does, I’ll be able to form an opinion. Until then, put me in the agnostic camp.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/confessions-of-a-russiagate-agnostic


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  26. #1496
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Confessions of a Russiagate agnostic

    by Philip Klein
    | January 10, 2019 10:35 AM

    I’ll admit it: I’m a Russiagate agnostic.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/confessions-of-a-russiagate-agnostic

    Translation: "I know some people are able to connect dots, see patterns and can make general inferences and see what's coming, but I can't. We really don't know the two trains will collide until that collision actually happens."

    Might as well say "Some people scoff at the President claiming he knows more about drones and technology than anyone else, but until we get full, comprehensive evaluation of everyone in the population in a wide battery of cognitive and knowledge assessments, it's premature to think the President is erroneous in his statement."

    [As for me, I'm agnostic on whether or not the Apollo program actually landed on the moon. The skeptics point out the flag wouldn't be standing horizontally like it was waiving in the breeze on the moon, and they make a really good point. On the other hand, maybe the flag is waiving from gasses released from all that cheese on the moon. So you never really know.]

    An important corollary for Russiagate agnostics is that Mueller may not really have much information at all, a view that goes back to Ty Cobb saying the investigation would be wrapped up by December 2017. You just adjust your view every month and keep pointing out problems in recent revelations, ignore the growing number of indictments and guilty pleas building toward a seriously problematic mosaic, and keep declaring your agnosticism.

    Boiling frog: "I see no evidence the water is a concern, but I remain open to new information".

  27. #1497
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Translation: "I know some people are able to connect dots, see patterns and can make general inferences and see what's coming, but I can't. We really don't know the two trains will collide until that collision actually happens."

    Might as well say "Some people scoff at the President claiming he knows more about drones and technology than anyone else, but until we get full, comprehensive evaluation of everyone in the population in a wide battery of cognitive and knowledge assessments, it's premature to think the President is erroneous in his statement."

    [As for me, I'm agnostic on whether or not the Apollo program actually landed on the moon. The skeptics point out the flag wouldn't be standing horizontally like it was waiving in the breeze on the moon, and they make a really good point. On the other hand, maybe the flag is waiving from gasses released from all that cheese on the moon. So you never really know.]

    An important corollary for Russiagate agnostics is that Mueller may not really have much information at all, a view that goes back to Ty Cobb saying the investigation would be wrapped up by December 2017. You just adjust your view every month and keep pointing out problems in recent revelations, ignore the growing number of indictments and guilty pleas building toward a seriously problematic mosaic, and keep declaring your agnosticism.

    Boiling frog: "I see no evidence the water is a concern, but I remain open to new information".
    But, my friend, you have “known” from the beginning that all allegations against Trump were true, or were just about to be proven. I can’t stand Trump, and I expect something bad to happen to him because of his misbehavior, but I’m not as convinced as you and others here are that he’s guilty guilty guilty. Whether or not someone is convinced of the allegations against Trump clearly depends on their political outlook, in almost all cases. There are exceptions on both sides of the aisle, of course. But what I have said is generally true.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  28. #1498
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I’m not as convinced as you and others here are that he’s guilty guilty guilty.
    It really doesn't matter. He's guilty guilty guilty of being incompetent, dishonest, and incapable. That's enough. The details are a distraction.

  29. #1499
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    It really doesn't matter. He's guilty guilty guilty of being incompetent, dishonest, and incapable. That's enough. The details are a distraction.
    No doubt about any of that, but you can’t impeach him for those things.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  30. #1500
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    No doubt about any of that, but you can’t impeach him for those things.
    I don't see why not. If grossly dishonest and entirely incapable aren't enough, the constitution is broken.

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