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Thread: Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

  1. #1471
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I’m considered a squish on immigration issues by many conservatives’ standards. I disagree with Romney on the issue, for example. Still, the linked Washington Post article and this commentary on it is fascinating to me.

    https://althouse.blogspot.com/2018/1...ngton.html?m=1

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #1472
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #1473
    Talking to some federal employees who are required to work right now with pay and the obviously are not happy. They recently received a sample letter to send to creditors if they need.

    Pretty disgusting to use the people who work for you as pawns, I don't know how Trump can stand to live with himself.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #1474
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Lucky, I am too obtuse to get it. What has been done before? Are you seriously equating GWB with the orange man?
    I am not sure if you are being snarky or serious, so I will assume you are serious.

    I do not mean to compare directly GWB to DJT, but to provide one example of where a military campaign was claimed to have been completed when it was clearly not complete. This is the passage in the article (that was also in your snip) that caught my attention, "President Trump touched down Wednesday in Iraq in his first visit to a conflict zone as commander in chief, a week after announcing a victory over the Islamic State that his own Pentagon and State Department days earlier said remained incomplete."

    I am sure there are others, but this is the one that came to mind when I read your referenced article. If there are differences that I am not seeing on the surface level at which I am admittedly viewing it, I would be glad to be educated.

  5. #1475
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyUte View Post
    I am not sure if you are being snarky or serious, so I will assume you are serious.

    I do not mean to compare directly GWB to DJT, but to provide one example of where a military campaign was claimed to have been completed when it was clearly not complete. This is the passage in the article (that was also in your snip) that caught my attention, "President Trump touched down Wednesday in Iraq in his first visit to a conflict zone as commander in chief, a week after announcing a victory over the Islamic State that his own Pentagon and State Department days earlier said remained incomplete."

    I am sure there are others, but this is the one that came to mind when I read your referenced article. If there are differences that I am not seeing on the surface level at which I am admittedly viewing it, I would be glad to be educated.
    I was being serious. I see what you meant now. Calling ISIS “the JayVee” is a similar example. Trump, however, operates at an entirely different level of mindless bluster.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #1476
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    This is a thought-provoking take.

    How the Trump presidency made me a better American

    https://nypost.com/2018/12/30/how-th...tter-american/

    (Spoiler: It didn’t have that effect because of any charitable intent on Trump’s part.)

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #1477
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Mitt announces his intentions:

    Opinion | Mitt Romney: A president shapes the nation’s character. Trump’s falls short.
    The Washington Post


    “The people of this country will respond if called to a higher action.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.97068730a444

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #1478
    Hope Bill is right. Also hope this is awkward for Ronna Romney McDaniel

    Mike Murphy liked
    Bill KristolVerified account @BillKristol 2h2 hours agoMore



    Romney’s op-ed is a shot across the bow. Some are disappointed because it’s not a full-on assault on the Trump battleship. But it is a shot. And shots across the bow are often followed by real boarding parties.

  9. #1479
    Karen TumultyVerified account @ktumulty 2m2 minutes agoMore

    Also the Conway family.


    Matt SchlappVerified account @mschlapp

    Trump is really divisive...to the Romney family.


  10. #1480
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    It strikes me that the seat gained by the GOP in the Senate may not be as useful as it seems given Romney's views on Trump.

  11. #1481
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Mitt announces his intentions:

    Opinion | Mitt Romney: A president shapes the nation’s character. Trump’s falls short.
    The Washington Post


    “The people of this country will respond if called to a higher action.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.97068730a444
    Mitt's right, but I think his attack is premature. Right now he's being dismissed as a sore loser - basically another whiner, like Hillary - where (IMO) he needed to put this out when more of the heavy stuff comes out, when Trump & his 2020 campaign manager have much larger punches to worry about.

    Hope there's a lot more material to come.

    OTOH, getting this out now puts him in place to say "I talked about character before Mueller's bombshells. Character matters, folks".
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 01-02-2019 at 09:55 AM.

  12. #1482
    Unrelated to Romney or Trump, China & Japan have both been dumping US treasuries / no longer buying newly issued T-Bills. China previously held 22% of our federal debt, which is now down to 18%, and Japan's share has dropped from 21% to 16%. Some speculate this is China retaliating for the trade tensions, but more likely, they're seeing the need to diversify their investments away from US sovereign debt. (This reason parallels why Japan would be doing the same, since Japan's exposure to Trump's trade threats is less acute.)

    This may be playing into the calculus Powell uses to bump up interest rates - which in turn leads to Trump talking about firing him. More signs are pointing to a global slowdown / recession, which would force Powell to increase rates to attract buyers of US debt. Of course, higher rates increase our deficit, which has remained "lower" because interest payments have been so low.

    If the US enters recession, it would explode the deficit, already nearly $1T per year, nearing 5% of our GDP... during one of the longest expansions on record.

    While the Fed has started to slowly "unwind" the Quantitative Easing used to avoid a full blown Depression during the Great Recession, because we have almost no maneuvering room on the federal fiscal front there may need to be a grand bargain on entitlement reform, lower defense spending, and reversing some of the tax cuts.

    *This* is why you don't want perpetual deficit spending during boom times, and why the great majority of economists were against the tax cuts
    . (Apples & Oranges, but for comparison, Canada typically runs a very small budget surplus, and ran small deficits during the Great Recession.)

  13. #1483
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Unrelated to Romney or Trump, China & Japan have both been dumping US treasuries / no longer buying newly issued T-Bills. China previously held 22% of our federal debt, which is now down to 18%, and Japan's share has dropped from 21% to 16%. Some speculate this is China retaliating for the trade tensions, but more likely, they're seeing the need to diversify their investments away from US sovereign debt. (This reason parallels why Japan would be doing the same, since Japan's exposure to Trump's trade threats is less acute.)

    This may be playing into the calculus Powell uses to bump up interest rates - which in turn leads to Trump talking about firing him. More signs are pointing to a global slowdown / recession, which would force Powell to increase rates to attract buyers of US debt. Of course, higher rates increase our deficit, which has remained "lower" because interest payments have been so low.

    If the US enters recession, it would explode the deficit, already nearly $1T per year, nearing 5% of our GDP... during one of the longest expansions on record.

    While the Fed has started to slowly "unwind" the Quantitative Easing used to avoid a full blown Depression during the Great Recession, because we have almost no maneuvering room on the federal fiscal front there may need to be a grand bargain on entitlement reform, lower defense spending, and reversing some of the tax cuts.

    *This* is why you don't want perpetual deficit spending during boom times, and why the great majority of economists were against the tax cuts
    . (Apples & Oranges, but for comparison, Canada typically runs a very small budget surplus, and ran small deficits during the Great Recession.)
    There's also this nugget that came out over the holidays.

    China imports zero U.S. soybeans in November for first time since trade war started
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/c...-trade-n951556

  14. #1484
    George Conway gets more and more liberated/brazen with each passing day. I cant figure out if he is trying to get Kellyanne to quit or get fired, or just get her completely isolated in the West Wing. she must be in on it, and both of them must see this as a way to protect their backsides after she or Trump is gone.



    George Conway@gtconway3d 2h2 hours ago

    George Conway Retweeted Josh Dawsey

    George Conway added

    Ah, yes. How many times have we seen this now? Undercut and contradict your representatives so no one will deal with them. Nothing gets accomplished, but at least you remain the center of focus, because that’s the only thing that matters.The Narcissist’s Art of the Deal.

    Josh Dawsey@jdawsey1

    Trump continues to confound as a negotiator to allies and foes alike. How Trump’s White House is handling the shutdown negotiations w/@seungminkim: https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...8c7_story.html



  15. #1485

    Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    George Conway gets more and more liberated/brazen with each passing day. I cant figure out if he is trying to get Kellyanne to quit or get fired, or just get her completely isolated in the West Wing. she must be in on it, and both of them must see this as a way to protect their backsides after she or Trump is gone.



    George Conway@gtconway3d 2h2 hours ago

    George Conway Retweeted Josh Dawsey

    George Conway added

    Ah, yes. How many times have we seen this now? Undercut and contradict your representatives so no one will deal with them. Nothing gets accomplished, but at least you remain the center of focus, because that’s the only thing that matters.The Narcissist’s Art of the Deal.

    Josh Dawsey@jdawsey1

    Trump continues to confound as a negotiator to allies and foes alike. How Trump’s White House is handling the shutdown negotiations w/@seungminkim: https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...8c7_story.html


    From everything I’ve seen, I would bet that what George Conway is wanting to get is divorced.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #1486
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    George Conway gets more and more liberated/brazen with each passing day. I cant figure out if he is trying to get Kellyanne to quit or get fired, or just get her completely isolated in the West Wing. she must be in on it, and both of them must see this as a way to protect their backsides after she or Trump is gone.
    I wondered how things might be going in the Conway household. Are they talking? What do the kids think of all this? Or maybe they're just playing their work roles, tell the kids to ignore all that, and all is well. While Kellyanne is a strong PR presence, there has to be only so much BS they can juggle. Even Sarah Sander has pulled back to once a month, and often shuts down the press conference because many of the topics are so difficult to defend, for any person with a conscience.

  17. #1487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    From everything I’ve seen, I would bet that what George Conway is wanting to get is divorced.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'm with Concerned. I think it's planned. If there was any dirty laundry out there on George, Kellyanne (or another Trump sycophant) would've released it to embarrass him. Or Kellyanne has as much dirt out there about her, leading to MAD if one struck first. Can you imagine if this is all part of a plan for George to run for Senate in 2022 or President in 2024?

  18. #1488
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Confessions of a Russiagate agnostic

    by Philip Klein
    | January 10, 2019 10:35 AM

    I’ll admit it: I’m a Russiagate agnostic.

    I’m perfectly open to the possibility that President Trump (or his campaign) colluded with Russians to influence the outcome of the 2016 election, but I just want to see evidence that proves it.

    Being agnostic about Russiagate is challenging for a political commentator. Russia has dominated the news for the past two years, and people on each side have passionate and confidently held views. It seems either they’re convinced that Trump colluded and attempted to cover it up, or they’re convinced that it’s all a nothingburger cooked up to delegitimize the Trump presidency.

    On such a polarizing issue that’s played a central role in our political debate, it’s been difficult to take a wait and see approach before forming a strong opinion. But it’s also hard to feel confident about any narrative without knowing more.

    In the absence of any report from special counsel Robert Mueller, much of the commentary involves speculation about what he does or doesn’t know. Those convinced Trump is being railroaded assume Mueller just keeps dragging out the investigation because he’s found nothing, while those convinced of his guilt assume Mueller is slowly and carefully building a case that will corner Trump.

    I’ve been reluctant to get too far ahead of my skis in either proclaiming Trump’s innocence or declaring his guilt.

    What’s made me particularly wary is that there has been a steady stream of stories that have been promoted as being “bombshells,” that either end up being corrected, and/or turn out upon further analysis and with the benefit of context, to be less dispositive than initially advertised.

    A perfect example is the recent revelation in the New York Times that former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort “shared political polling data with a business associate tied to Russian intelligence.”

    When the news first broke, cries of “Wow!”; “OMG”; and “BOOM!” erupted on Twitter. CNN’s Chris Cillizza, a useful barometer of conventional wisdom, recounted the Times story and concluded, “ That. Is. Huge.”

    But was it? Not so fast, said none other than Benjamin Wittes, a close friend of former FBI Director James Comey who called for Trump’s impeachment way back in 2017. Writing on his Lawfare blog, Wittes cautioned that the sharing of polling data could have just as easily been explained as being part of Manafort’s shady business dealings that involved peddling his ties to Trump rather than clear evidence of collusion.

    “This is not to splash cold water on the story, which is certainly tantalizing,” Wittes wrote. “It is to say that Manafort's lawyers' general characterization of Mueller's allegations about Manafort's conduct in the context of a dispute over whether Manafort violated his plea agreement or not offers a highly imperfect window into Mueller's understanding of that evidence and how it fits into the larger picture of interactions between the Trump campaign and the Russian state.”

    After Wittes wrote that, the Times issued an embarrassing correction, which further undermined the idea that the story demonstrated collusion. The story initially said that Manafort had wanted his Russian contact, Konstantin V. Kilimnik, to pass along the polling data to Oleg V. Deripaska, described as “a Russian oligarch close to the Kremlin.” However, the correction said that Manafort had actually asked for the data to be shared with two Ukrainian oligarchs.

    To be sure, the oligarchs are known to be Russia-friendly, so the correction does not necessarily disprove the idea that this had something to do with collusion. But it strengthens the case that it more likely has to do with Mueller’s investigations into Manafort’s business dealings.

    At the same time, it’s quite possible, as some have suggested, that Mueller is holding his cards close to his vest, and actually has much more than he’s letting on. But there’s no way of knowing until it’s time for him to reveal his hand. In the meantime we’re just getting glimpses of random cards in the deck and speculating on the rest.

    The speculation has been repeatedly wrong -- even when it comes to something as basic as whether the investigation is nearing its conclusion.
    I support letting the Mueller investigation run its course. And when it does, I’ll be able to form an opinion. Until then, put me in the agnostic camp.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/confessions-of-a-russiagate-agnostic


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  19. #1489
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Confessions of a Russiagate agnostic

    by Philip Klein
    | January 10, 2019 10:35 AM

    I’ll admit it: I’m a Russiagate agnostic.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/confessions-of-a-russiagate-agnostic

    Translation: "I know some people are able to connect dots, see patterns and can make general inferences and see what's coming, but I can't. We really don't know the two trains will collide until that collision actually happens."

    Might as well say "Some people scoff at the President claiming he knows more about drones and technology than anyone else, but until we get full, comprehensive evaluation of everyone in the population in a wide battery of cognitive and knowledge assessments, it's premature to think the President is erroneous in his statement."

    [As for me, I'm agnostic on whether or not the Apollo program actually landed on the moon. The skeptics point out the flag wouldn't be standing horizontally like it was waiving in the breeze on the moon, and they make a really good point. On the other hand, maybe the flag is waiving from gasses released from all that cheese on the moon. So you never really know.]

    An important corollary for Russiagate agnostics is that Mueller may not really have much information at all, a view that goes back to Ty Cobb saying the investigation would be wrapped up by December 2017. You just adjust your view every month and keep pointing out problems in recent revelations, ignore the growing number of indictments and guilty pleas building toward a seriously problematic mosaic, and keep declaring your agnosticism.

    Boiling frog: "I see no evidence the water is a concern, but I remain open to new information".

  20. #1490
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Translation: "I know some people are able to connect dots, see patterns and can make general inferences and see what's coming, but I can't. We really don't know the two trains will collide until that collision actually happens."

    Might as well say "Some people scoff at the President claiming he knows more about drones and technology than anyone else, but until we get full, comprehensive evaluation of everyone in the population in a wide battery of cognitive and knowledge assessments, it's premature to think the President is erroneous in his statement."

    [As for me, I'm agnostic on whether or not the Apollo program actually landed on the moon. The skeptics point out the flag wouldn't be standing horizontally like it was waiving in the breeze on the moon, and they make a really good point. On the other hand, maybe the flag is waiving from gasses released from all that cheese on the moon. So you never really know.]

    An important corollary for Russiagate agnostics is that Mueller may not really have much information at all, a view that goes back to Ty Cobb saying the investigation would be wrapped up by December 2017. You just adjust your view every month and keep pointing out problems in recent revelations, ignore the growing number of indictments and guilty pleas building toward a seriously problematic mosaic, and keep declaring your agnosticism.

    Boiling frog: "I see no evidence the water is a concern, but I remain open to new information".
    But, my friend, you have “known” from the beginning that all allegations against Trump were true, or were just about to be proven. I can’t stand Trump, and I expect something bad to happen to him because of his misbehavior, but I’m not as convinced as you and others here are that he’s guilty guilty guilty. Whether or not someone is convinced of the allegations against Trump clearly depends on their political outlook, in almost all cases. There are exceptions on both sides of the aisle, of course. But what I have said is generally true.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  21. #1491
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    It really doesn't matter. He's guilty guilty guilty of being incompetent, dishonest, and incapable. That's enough. The details are a distraction.
    No doubt about any of that, but you can’t impeach him for those things.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  22. #1492
    I don't see any problem with taking a wait-and-see approach (particularly when your opinion has zero bearing on the matter). The article rightfully points out that there have been soooooo many "This.Is.Big." moments that aren't actually big it's hard to take much credence in them. Chris Cilliza's life seems devoted to that and making those "24 shocking things the president said..." 23 of which aren't actually shocking.

    I'm done with the noise on the investigation until the report comes out. Little doubt Mueller will be thorough and detailed.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  23. #1493
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    But, my friend, you have “known” from the beginning that all allegations against Trump were true, or were just about to be proven. I can’t stand Trump, and I expect something bad to happen to him because of his misbehavior, but I’m not as convinced as you and others here are that he’s guilty guilty guilty. Whether or not someone is convinced of the allegations against Trump clearly depends on their political outlook, in almost all cases. There are exceptions on both sides of the aisle, of course. But what I have said is generally true.
    I certainly saw smoke, early. (I'm agnostic on the pee-tape, and Cohen's trip to Prague may not have occurred. But the Dossier's general theme is being generally manifested through what's emerged so far.)

    Trump supporters have knocked Mueller's work and the SDNY / State of NY actions as not being Russia related, or not being linked to the President directly, only to advisors who are now gone (Manafort, Cohen, Flynn), etc. The NYT reporting this week the FBI (post Comey firing) opened an inquiry into whether Trump's actions were undermining US national security is a key opening into the notion that the President himself may be acting at the behest of a foreign adversary.

    The cabinet meeting last week where Trump asserted the Soviets invaded Afghanistan only to fight terrorists is another small piece of a larger puzzle that makes sense... in one direction. (What are the chances that Trump came up with the same explanation for Afghanistan history in 1979 that only exists within Putin's political party in Russia... completely independently?)

    Trump has impressively transformed the GOP away from many of their core values. (Remember when deficit reduction and free-trade were hallmarks of Republican thinking?)

    There are threats of provoked Constitutional crisis from different angles: Declaring a State of Emergency on the border wall, Guiliani claiming Trump has the right to "correct" Mueller's report before it goes to Congress, etc.

    Based on what has been revealed so far, the work of Mueller suggests more serious allegations are coming. (I also sense that removal from office is increasingly unlikely, given how malleable Republicans have proven to be. "Better to be Russian than a Democrat", right?)

    Rocker said it best - Trump has no interest in a wall. (He once said that walls divide us. How ironic.) He just wants the *fight*, the primary objective is to disrupt & divide. If the Dems gave him the $5.6B, we would soon find a new issue to fight about, to be viewed as something so serious that a state of emergency may need to be considered.

    Noticing the water around you has little bubbles forming on the bottom of the pot? Or that's just the latest, adjusting equilibrium?

    Let's jump up 20,000 feet to help me make my point: the UK is teetering toward a very, very rough landing, a no-deal Brexit, or a deal that half the Tories think is a horrendous sell out.

    (What would be so wrong about a re-vote? … given the revelations that social media was used to sow discord & amplify the "Leave" campaign's position, from the same Oligarch's troll farm... while assassinations have been attempted on English soil, from the Oligarch's nation? The conditions have changed quite a bit, more knowledge has come out, right?)

    A UK in turmoil, separated from Europe, as the American tribes fight each other and leave their values in the rearview mirror benefits what global entity? (Are we still looking at trees? Or does every tree need to be studied before we declare the existence of a forest?)
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 01-12-2019 at 08:52 AM.

  24. #1494
    Back down to an altitude where we can realistically address what is in front of us:

    - I think the Dems & Republicans should provide the $5.6B, to be allocated for border security on the recommendations of a board of experts. Let Trump spin a win, get the government re-opened. [I personally think the Commerce Department's inability to provide economic data is far more serious than most realize.]

    - Pelosi should steer away from Impeachment and instead look at multiple, narrow votes of censure, based on specific instances of presidential malpractice. This will help bring some Republicans onboard, help them recover their values as they face re-election.

    We need reason and movement back toward consensus.

    We'll always have plenty of policy issues to debate and differ on, but now more than ever "united we stand, divided we fall".
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 01-12-2019 at 03:23 PM.

  25. #1495
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Frank Bruni:

    Will the Media Be Trump's Accomplice Again in 2020?



    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/o...020-media.html

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  26. #1496
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    From conservative Trump critic John Podhoretz at Commentary:


    Special prosecutor Robert Mueller took the extraordinary step of publicly discrediting the article in BuzzFeed claiming Donald Trump told his lawyer, Michael Cohen, to lie to Congress about the Trump Tower Moscow project. As it happens, I was one of the first people on cable television to comment on the original story because it came out at 11 pm on Thursday night and I was on “Morning Joe” at 6 am Friday. As the article’s details warranted, I went immediately to Defcon 1.


    “If the story is true, we are not at another level,” I said. “We are at impeachment.” I am a confirmed skeptic about Trump-Russia-collusion narrative. What was different here was (as Jonah Goldberg pointed out) that it is perfectly believable Trump would ask Cohen to lie about something, since Trump himself lies several times a day, even about things he has no reason to lie about.


    I thank God I had the common sense to say “if this story is true,” because it almost certainly isn’t. The Washington Post offers this shocking refutation: “Inside the Justice Department, the [Mueller] statement was viewed as a huge step, and one that would have been taken only if the special counsel’s office viewed the story as almost entirely incorrect. The special counsel’s office seemed to be disputing every aspect of the story that addressed comments or evidence given to its investigators.”


    The Trump-Russia story in all its permutations (including the ones regarding FBI misbehavior in pursuit of it) is easily the most important going right now. It should go without saying that editors and reporters must exercise extraordinary prudence when advancing a narrative that implies the president of the United States is either the pawn of a foreign power or engaged in an impeachable effort to cover stuff up. But it doesn’t go without saying.


    Trump is viewed as such a threat to the American present and future that many of his most determined foes are working along the lines of the instructions delivered to Chicago’s police in The Blues Brothers:“Use of unnecessary violence in the apprehension of the Blues Brothers has been approved.” Trump is reckless with the truth. That doesn’t give his pursuers license to be reckless with it as well. Quite the opposite, in fact. The discredited BuzzFeed story advances the dreadful case that there is no truth—that there are only agendas.




    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  27. #1497
    Is it possible that Gulliani's bizarre change of messaging that the Trump organization was talking about a project in Moscow throughout the election is because he knows that evidence of communication between Trump himself and Russians exists? Is this so they can later claim, "These were just talks about building a building, nothing to do with politics whatsoever?"

    It seems it is either that or Gulliani is losing his mind.

  28. #1498
    Down goes Roger Stone...

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/video...arrested-video


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  29. #1499
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Is it possible that Gulliani's bizarre change of messaging that the Trump organization was talking about a project in Moscow throughout the election is because he knows that evidence of communication between Trump himself and Russians exists? Is this so they can later claim, "These were just talks about building a building, nothing to do with politics whatsoever?"

    It seems it is either that or Gulliani is losing his mind.
    To me this is part of a pattern of retreating from public denials, getting out front and getting backers & the public used to unflattering facts. Sort of like earlier rumblings from the right like "collusion isn't illegal".

    The real mystery to me is what has happened to Lindsey Graham? His metamorphis has been dramatic. Something's not quite right there.

  30. #1500
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    The real mystery to me is what has happened to Lindsey Graham? His metamorphis has been dramatic. Something's not quite right there.
    He downed a White Russian at a cocktail party and has never been the same since.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

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