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Thread: Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

  1. #1501
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    …..The real mystery to me is what has happened to Lindsey Graham? His metamorphis has been dramatic. Something's not quite right there.

    I think the Kavanaugh hearings really shook him......changed his perspective forever. It did for a lot of people.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  2. #1502
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    I think the Kavanaugh hearings really shook him......changed his perspective forever. It did for a lot of people.
    Those hearings were a symptom not a cause. He changed long, long before that. When McCain became ill and Lindsey started playing golf with Trump. My own theory is there is something in his personality that makes him a Sancho Panza who must attach himself to an alpha male. For years it was McCain, now Trump. Remember last year when he attacked all the pundits for claiming that Trump was an unqualified kook, when that is verbatim what he said during the campaign (almost)?
    Last edited by concerned; 01-25-2019 at 03:56 PM.

  3. #1503
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Those hearings were a symptom not a cause. He changed long, long before that. When McCain became ill and Lindsey started playing golf with Trump. My own theory is there is something in his personality that makes him a Sancho Panza who must attach himself to an alpha male. For years it was McCain, now Trump. Remember last year when he attacked all the pundits for claiming that Trump was an unqualified kook, when that is verbatim what he said during the campaign (almost)?
    Is this why I find myself wanting to attach myself to you?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #1504
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    NBC/Wall Street Journal poll shows Pelosi hardest hit by the shutdown. Surprising.

    In fact, the percentage of respondents with a “very negative” of Pelosi increased by six points from 28 percent in December to 34 percent in January. President Trump’s “very negative” numbers held at 43 percent over the last month, and McConnell’s numbers actually improved by one point. Pelosi’s total numbers show a 19-point gap between her positives and negatives, larger than McConnell (18 points) and Trump (12 points).
    0946CB56-69BF-4474-8081-79D61E501886.jpg
    Last edited by LA Ute; 01-28-2019 at 08:46 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  5. #1505
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    NBC/Wall Street Journal poll shows Pelosi hardest hit by the shutdown. Surprising.



    0946CB56-69BF-4474-8081-79D61E501886.jpg
    While I think the blame on the shutdown lies solely upon Trump, I don't think anybody in the government came out looking good from all of this. And if they really want fuel for the fire of negative emotion, they'll let the government shut down again on Feb 15. At that point I don't think the public will care about any 'principle' either side is claiming to stand on.


  6. #1506
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    You all know how much I dislike Trump. You also know that I think the “Russia collusion” attack on him will, if it turns out to be unfounded, the most cynical, highly-organized political stunt in American history. Here are some hints about where it’s going.

    As The Russia Hoax Begins To Unravel, The Gaslighting Begins

    http://thefederalist.com/2019/02/14/...ghting-begins/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #1507
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Good grief. Did this really happen? I don’t know what to think anymore about any of this stuff.

    Eight days in May: New revelations about intrigue to remove Trump

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...resident-trump

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #1508
    Well, any question that may have arisen in the mind of any member of Trump's core regarding his declaration of a state of emergency will be wiped out as Trump hits the Twitter trail today excoriating the NFL for settling with Colin Kaepernic yesterday. He couldn't have timed his announcement better.

  9. #1509
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #1510
    I think there are many Republicans who will not like David Brooks' latest NYT editorial.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/28/o...gtype=Homepage.

  11. #1511
    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    I think there are many Republicans who will not like David Brooks' latest NYT editorial.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/28/o...gtype=Homepage.
    Hey, I posted this last week! Brooks writes it better, of course.

    Do they think that having anesthetized their moral sense in this case they will simply turn it on again down the road? Having turned off their soul at work, do they think they will be able to turn it on again when they go home to the spouse and kids?

  12. #1512
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Hey, I posted this last week! Brooks writes it better, of course.
    But his words don't carry any more weight!

  13. #1513
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Interesting new poll. Lots of information here, and this bit caught my eye:

    “And regarding socialism, just 18 percent of all Americans say they view the term positively, versus 50 percent who see it in a negative light.”

    NBC News/WSJ poll: 2020 race will be uphill for Trump, but he has strong party loyalty

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/mee...-trump-n978331

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #1514
    There have been times where David Brooks provided a reasoned view of conservative thinking that made me re-think by own biases. His take on Cohen's testimony was an interesting angle.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/28/o...testimony.html

    This is how moral corrosion happens. Supporting Trump requires daily acts of moral distancing, a process that means that after a few months you are tolerant of any corruption. You are morally numb to everything. You end up where Representative Jim Jordan blandly ended up Wednesday, in referring to the hush-money scheme: “I think it’s news we knew about.”
    When Bill Clinton's misdeeds were revealed, I was repulsed. It soured my enthusiasm for him. But it was essentially one (sizable) moral defect, his presidency was winding down, and he'd otherwise done a decent job as president. Reports that Hillary slapped in the face were believable, and if true, it was just.

    With Trump the catalog of defects and morally reprehensible behavior is far more expansive, to overwhelm the senses. "Supporting Trump requires daily acts of moral distancing, a process that means that after a few months you are tolerant of any corruption. You are morally numb to everything."

    Most of the good people I know who support Trump don't really follow the news, objectively. They can't. He assaults their morals in a wholesale manner. If one of their children started acting like Trump, they would be aghast, because they've been unable to teach the moral principles they espouse while rationalizing their support of the president. Their morality is getting dusty, sitting on the shelf.
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 03-03-2019 at 10:13 AM.

  15. #1515
    Newest Democratic presidential candidate, John Hickenlooper of Colorado, asserts "Reasonable Republicans admit concerns about Trump after 2 beers". https://www.denverpost.com/2019/03/0...ld-trump-beer/

    It's an amusing, but insightful quip, lightly broaches the topic of defensive partisanship clouding patriotism... and it also indirectly explains why Nixon still was over 50% in approval in Utah, *after* he resigned and was far lower nationally, among Republicans. (Just ribbing LA and others. My sense of why Nixon was so revered in Utah after leaving office is because most Utah Republicans are too busy to really pay attention to what's going on.)

    I don't know much about Hickenlooper, but Colorado is definitely a swing state, so he knows how to interact with Republicans, and with he & Jay Inslee of Washington in the mix, it balances out the field with a couple of white males. (Granted, this doesn't mean much on the surface, but to the extent they can bring a perspective and a voice that speaks to the alienation of many Democrats who voted for Trump, this may steer the dialog in a good direction.)

  16. #1516
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Just for the record, I do object to the silly idea that if any Republican doesn't want Trump out of office immediately and isn't OK with replacing him with any progressive or liberal, such a Republican has sold his soul, given up his integrity, is complicit in evil, or other such nonsense.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  17. #1517
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Newest Democratic presidential candidate, John Hickenlooper of Colorado, asserts "Reasonable Republicans admit concerns about Trump after 2 beers". https://www.denverpost.com/2019/03/0...ld-trump-beer/
    I liked him fine as governor here. Add him to the long list of candidates I prefer to the incumbent.

    I'm not sure Colorado is really a swing state though.

    Did everyone see the political hate maps in the Atlantic yesterday?

  18. #1518
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Just for the record, I do object to the silly idea that if any Republican doesn't want Trump out of office immediately and isn't OK with replacing him with any progressive or liberal, such a Republican has sold his soul, given up his integrity, is complicit in evil, or other such nonsense.
    Can someone explain why many feel that Pence would be worse than Trump? I get his position on abortion and homosexuality is upsetting to many, but I've never really gotten that stance.

  19. #1519
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Can someone explain why many feel that Pence would be worse than Trump? I get his position on abortion and homosexuality is upsetting to many, but I've never really gotten that stance.
    He'd be a competent president and would not engage in all the destructive foolishness that Trump thrives on. There would be the usual political noise from his opponents (remember GW Bush being called "Bushitler?"). But that's just standard stuff.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #1520
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Can someone explain why many feel that Pence would be worse than Trump? I get his position on abortion and homosexuality is upsetting to many, but I've never really gotten that stance.
    I don't agree with that sentiment, but the thought might be that he might be more effective than Trump with his far right Christian conservative agenda. This would be less likely with the Dems holding a majority in the House.

  21. #1521
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Can someone explain why many feel that Pence would be worse than Trump? I get his position on abortion and homosexuality is upsetting to many, but I've never really gotten that stance.
    "Worse" in the sense that he'd be "more effective".

    I suspect that the left's concern is that Pence would be more capable of passing some of his medieval views on gender roles than Trump.

  22. #1522
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

    Kristof is one liberal columnist I respect and pay attention to.

    We Will Survive. Probably.

    American democracy is too resilient for Trump to destroy.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/06/o...hen-trump.html

    I did take issue with parts of this paragraph:

    One of the most troubling elements of Trump’s presidency has been his systematic assault on our institutions: the F.B.I., the Justice Department, the intelligence community, the news media, the courts. Yet for the most part, they have stood up to his bullying.
    I think the FBI, the Justice Dept. to a lesser extent, and the news media all have a lot to answer for in the Trump era. They’ve all behaved disgracefully in too many occasions.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 03-10-2019 at 03:30 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  23. #1523
    Five-O Diehard Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Kristof is one liberal columnist I respect and pay attention to.

    We Will Survive. Probably.

    American democracy is too resilient for Trump to destroy.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/06/o...hen-trump.html

    I did take issue with parts of this paragraph:



    I think the FBI, the Justice Dept. to a lesser extent, and the news media all have a lot to answer for in the Trump era. They’ve all behaved disgracefully in too many occasions.
    When the president sets the example, you follow it, right?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  24. #1524
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    When the president sets the example, you follow it, right?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    La ute's attitude is trump can't destroy our democracy so I don't care if he tries. I didn't vote for him and I'm more worried about aoc.

  25. #1525
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    When the president sets the example, you follow it, right?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Sorry, I’m still slow on the uptake. What do you mean?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  26. #1526
    Five-O Diehard Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Sorry, I’m still slow on the uptake. What do you mean?
    The president has behaved more disgracefully than anyone....so why wouldn’t those who he oversees?

    Lead by example right?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  27. #1527
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    La ute's attitude is trump can't destroy our democracy so I don't care if he tries. I didn't vote for him and I'm more worried about aoc.
    I said I liked Kristof’s column. If you think Trump is actually trying to destroy our democracy, you need to produce some evidence. Like a Kristof, I think it is highly doubtful that he can pull that off. Of course I would care if he were trying to do destroy democracy, but I have never seen any evidence that he actually thinks that way. He is coarse, a bully, ego-driven, vain, thin-skinned, impulsive, often a fool, and all the rest. But the leap from being a guy with that set of character deficits to being a dangerous power-hungry megalomaniac is a huge one. I’m not sure he even wanted to be president or has ever thought or cared about politics, beyond everyday issues that interest him at a superficial level, usually regarding trade and business.

    I don’t mind AOC and her ilk as long as they don’t gain real power. I suspect you feel the same way. Unrestrained and in power, either the far right or the far left in this country would be pretty scary.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  28. #1528
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    The president has behaved more disgracefully than anyone....so why wouldn’t those who he oversees?

    Lead by example right?
    What I have been reading lately from writers who are very critical of the president is that his staff and cabinet are actually restraining him, not mimicking him. That’s just what I see. Maybe you see something else.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  29. #1529
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I said I liked Kristof’s column. If you think Trump is actually trying to destroy our democracy, you need to produce some evidence. Like a Kristof, I think it is highly doubtful that he can pull that off. Of course I would care if he were trying to do destroy democracy, but I have never seen any evidence that he actually thinks that way. He is coarse, a bully, ego-driven, vain, thin-skinned, impulsive, often a fool, and all the rest. But the leap from being a guy with that set of character deficits to being a dangerous power-hungry megalomaniac is a huge one. I’m not sure he even wanted to be president or has ever thought or cared about politics, beyond everyday issues that interest him at a superficial level, usually regarding trade and business.

    I don’t mind AOC and her ilk as long as they don’t gain real power. I suspect you feel the same way. Unrestrained and in power, either the far right or the far left in this country would be pretty scary.
    Trump is a narcissist who's only trying to feed his unquenchable ego. That may involve megalomania. I doubt he has a policy bone in his body.

  30. #1530
    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    Trump is a narcissist who's only trying to feed his unquenchable ego. That may involve megalomania. I doubt he has a policy bone in his body.
    He is a narcissist and at bottom is a mobster. To him there isn't much difference between being a mobster and an autocrat. He can subvert democracy without being Caligula. LA Ute is just rationalizing.

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