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Thread: Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

  1. #721
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    It appears Mad Dog is now on the chopping block.

    https://www.apnews.com/1ee81c8bcba14...chief-of-staff

    Would that make Mattis the only one with half a brain left in that organization?

  2. #722
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Politics in the 21st century aren’t turning out the way I hoped they would.

    One of the country’s biggest publishers of fake news says he did it for our own good

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...ews:newsletter

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #723
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Politics in the 21st century aren’t turning out the way I hoped they would.

    One of the country’s biggest publishers of fake news says he did it for our own good

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...ews:newsletter
    This guy is my new hero.

  4. #724

  5. #725
    Michael Cohen: FBI raids office of Trump's personal lawyer

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ller-documents

  6. #726
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Michael Cohen: FBI raids office of Trump's personal lawyer

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ller-documents
    How exactly does that work with attorney/client privilege?

  7. #727
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    How exactly does that work with attorney/client privilege?

    who knows in this instance. Often the FBI will seize the stuff, but not look at it, and allow the attorney for the seized person come in , review the folders, and make a claim as to what is privleged. then they can have an independent person review the folders to determine if it is legitimate, or the person has to make a list of log of the documents that he claims are privileged.

    The privilege does not exist if the attorney is participating in a crime, so that could be in play too.

    finally, they could only be looking at documents that are not privileged--such as Cohen's communications with persons who are not his clients, like Russian investors, etc.

  8. #728
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    I wondered that myself, and ran across this explanation:


  9. #729
    somebody posted on line the section from the US Attorney's Manual on protecting privileged documents when executing a search warrant:


    Safeguarding Procedures and Contents of the Affidavit.
    Procedures should be designed to ensure that privileged materials are not improperly viewed, seized or retained during the course of the search. While the procedures to be followed should be tailored to the facts of each case and the requirements and judicial preferences and precedents of each district, in all cases a prosecutor must employ adequate precautions to ensure that the materials are reviewed for privilege claims and that any privileged documents are returned to the attorney from whom they were seized.

  10. #730
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    A law enforcement raid on a law office is one of the most aggressive things law enforcement can do. What we've seen the FBI do (not in our office! In clients' legal departments) is simply take possession of files, computers, etc., and seal them up. Then everything gets sorted out in a systematic approach like the one concerned describes. In this case I am sure we'll see a lot of 24-7 coverage of what happens, as well as a bunch of leaks from the investigation. Just when I think we've seen the outer limits of the drama our Trumpian times produce, I realize there are probably no limits....

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #731
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Lynch says Comey gave conflicting testimony on Clinton emails

    You know, a guy could read all these news reports and start wondering who’s telling the truth around here.

    Former Attorney General Loretta Lynch says fired FBI Director James Comey didn't raise any concerns when she directed him in 2015 to label the bureau's probe into Hillary Clinton's private email server a "matter" as opposed to an "investigation."

    But, nearly two years later, Comey gave a different recollection of events during testimony before the Senate Intelligence Committee, telling lawmakers that Lynch's directive "confused and concerned" him.

    Lynch drew attention to Comey's apparent conflicting remarks during an NBC News interview set to air in full Monday night.
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.3923962

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  12. #732
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Lynch says Comey gave conflicting testimony on Clinton emails

    You know, a guy could read all these news reports and start wondering who’s telling the truth around here.



    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.3923962
    As if Loretta Lynch has any credibility. Her improper interactions with Bill Clinton forced a lot of the actions Comey at the very least felt he needed to take m. The very fact that she admits she demanded it be called a ‘matter’ is troubling.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #733
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    As if Loretta Lynch has any credibility. Her improper interactions with Bill Clinton forced a lot of the actions Comey at the very least felt he needed to take m. The very fact that she admits she demanded it be called a ‘matter’ is troubling.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Actually I take that back, this is the same woman who thought that Bill Clinton's tarmac visit was just a casual visit, so perhaps she really can't clue in on what people's reactions and motivations are and wouldn't have noticed Comey's response to her direction to call it a matter and not an investigation.

  14. #734
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Lawyers who get served tend to not fare well.



    It makes sense since the bar for a warrant would need to be pretty high.

    Unless you believe every judge and FBI agent is a stooge for the DNC, which apparently some people do.

  15. #735
    I read some things this morning suggesting:

    !. The subpoena seeks documents that are subject to the attorney-client privilege, so that the crime-fraud exception is in play.

    2. Because Cohen is the president's lawyer, this would be signed off on at the highest levels (although Geoff Berman the USA in the Southern District apparently is recused). They would not go this route unless there was a lot more evidence than needed to establish ordinary probable cause.

    3. Same for the judge who signed the warrant--likely would require a lot more evidence than typical probable cause

    4. The govt would not go to all this trouble over Stormy Daniels--Russian financing, laundering, illegal campaign contributions have to be in play because the public integrity section of the southern district office is handling it.

  16. #736
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    I read some things this morning suggesting:

    !. The subpoena seeks documents that are subject to the attorney-client privilege, so that the crime-fraud exception is in play.

    2. Because Cohen is the president's lawyer, this would be signed off on at the highest levels (although Geoff Berman the USA in the Southern District apparently is recused). They would not go this route unless there was a lot more evidence than needed to establish ordinary probable cause.

    3. Same for the judge who signed the warrant--likely would require a lot more evidence than typical probable cause

    4. The govt would not go to all this trouble over Stormy Daniels--Russian financing, laundering, illegal campaign contributions have to be in play because the public integrity section of the southern district office is handling it.
    As a lawyer, this shit drives me crazy. You have power. You are directed to use that power investigate the Russia thing. You're not getting far enough and so you use your power to open a new investigation into a new area. Total Bullshit. The Baylor guy did this repeatedly to Bill Clinton and liberals were besides themselves.

    I've said this before and I'll say it again. I'm a process guy. It's the process that matters. This is bullshit, regardless of how I feel about our extremely bad President.

    It better totally be about Russia. But doesn't appear to be that way.
    Last edited by Two Utes; 04-10-2018 at 12:10 PM.

  17. #737
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    As a lawyer, this shit drives me crazy. You have power. You are directed to use that power investigate the Russia thing. You're not getting far enough and so you use your power to open a new investigation into a new area. Total Bullshit. The Baylor guy did this repeatedly to Bill Clinton and liberals were besides themselves.

    I've said this before and I'll say it again. I'm a process guy. It's the process that matters. This is bullshit, regardless of how I feel about our extremely bad President.

    It better totally be about Russia. But doesn't appear to be that way.
    None of us know enough about the process to make that judgment. Rosenstein or someone else high up at DOJ had to sign off, knowing the firestorm and backlash from Trump, Nunes,et al, that would result. They would be out of their minds to go rogue or stray off the reservation at this point, you would think.

    And no sooner than I posted that:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0337ad1eb041c
    Last edited by concerned; 04-10-2018 at 12:19 PM.

  18. #738
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    The Horseshoe Theory where we can live in a world where The Onion is indistinguishable from Info Wars just took another step to realization.

    FBI Raids Michael Cohen’s Office To Get Closer Look At His Innovative, Thorough Legal Work

  19. #739
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    As a lawyer, this shit drives me crazy. You have power. You are directed to use that power investigate the Russia thing. You're not getting far enough and so you use your power to open a new investigation into a new area. Total Bullshit. The Baylor guy did this repeatedly to Bill Clinton and liberals were besides themselves.

    I've said this before and I'll say it again. I'm a process guy. It's the process that matters. This is bullshit, regardless of how I feel about our extremely bad President.

    It better totally be about Russia. But doesn't appear to be that way.
    Most money by people who seem to be thoughtful people following this appear to believe that Cohen will be in trouble for money laundering. They mostly point towards the transaction he made where he bought property at the height of the housing bubble for $2M and then sold them for $12M in cash two years later to people who were hidden behind a series of LLC's. But it could be anything really.

    The fact that Mueller passed the information onto the SDNY instead of acting on it himself points to it not being about Russia.

  20. #740
    Remember when it felt like there was always a cloud of dust of shady deals around the Clintons? Man they feel like saints compared to all of the stuff swirling around Trump and his closest associates... it is staggering. I said it about the Clintons and I'll say it about Trump, there is no way you have that much stuff going on around you without you being having knowledge of it at best or being directly involved in it at worst.

  21. #741
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    None of us know enough about the process to make that judgment. Rosenstein or someone else high up at DOJ had to sign off, knowing the firestorm and backlash from Trump, Nunes,et al, that would result. They would be out of their minds to go rogue or stray off the reservation at this point, you would think.

    And no sooner than I posted that:

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0337ad1eb041c
    Very confusing. is this about Russia or did Mueller find something and send it on to the FBI and the FBI decided to look into it? If the latter is the case, then there should be no reason why Sessions isn't in charge of making the decision to raid this guy's office. Rosenstein is only in charge because Sessions recused himself from the Russia investigation.

    Again very confusing. And troubling.

  22. #742
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    Very confusing. is this about Russia or did Mueller find something and send it on to the FBI and the FBI decided to look into it? If the latter is the case, then there should be no reason why Sessions isn't in charge of making the decision to raid this guy's office. Rosenstein is only in charge because Sessions recused himself from the Russia investigation.

    Again very confusing. And troubling.
    Avoiding your liberal rag concerned and going to one of the last entities that reports actual news Rueters:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...source=twitter


    So, Mueller didn't do it, but the FBI did and it is directly related to the porn star and playboy model. No reason why Sessions wouldn't be involved in this decision, but he apparently wasn't.

    Trump got caught on audio stating he grabs women's pussies. Who in their right mind thinks that if the Stormy Daniels and Playboy woman stories would have come out it would have affected the election?

    He's writing those checks so his wife didn't find out.

  23. #743
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    Avoiding your liberal rag concerned and going to one of the last entities that reports actual news Rueters:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...source=twitter


    So, Mueller didn't do it, but the FBI did and it is directly related to the porn star and playboy model. No reason why Sessions wouldn't be involved in this decision, but he apparently wasn't.

    Trump got caught on audio stating he grabs women's pussies. Who in their right mind thinks that if the Stormy Daniels and Playboy woman stories would have come out it would have affected the election?

    He's writing those checks so his wife didn't find out.
    What is the difference between the Huff Post article and the Reuters article? They say the same thing, including the fact that the sbupoena is much broader than Storrmy Daniels, which is what everybody else has reported too.

  24. #744
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    What is the difference between the Huff Post article and the Reuters article? They say the same thing, including the fact that the sbupoena is much broader than Storrmy Daniels, which is what everybody else has reported too.
    Because it's a liberal rag that has a liberal bent. That doesn't mean sometimes it gets things right. Sometimes Fox news gets things right. Doesn't mean you ever watch it (nor do I)

  25. #745
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    #maga

    MAGA.jpeg

  26. #746
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    This is the order appointing Mueller and laying out the scope of his authority:

    *****

    (a) Robert S. Mueller III is appointed to serve as Special Counsel for the United StatesDepartment of Justice.

    (b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBIDirector James B. Comey in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee onIntelligence on March 20, 2017, including:

    (i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individualsassociated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and

    (ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and

    (iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).

    (c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel isauthorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters.

    (d) Sections 600.4 through 600.10 of Title 28 of the Code of Federal Regulations areapplicable to the Special Counsel.

    https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-re...67231/download


    *****

    This is 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a):

    *****

    § 600.4 Jurisdiction.
    (a)Original jurisdiction. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall be established by the Attorney General. The Special Counsel will be provided with a specific factual statement of the matter to be investigated. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses; and to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  27. #747
    according to CNN, Sessions is recused from any investigation re the 2016 election, not just Russia. That would include ane election law violations by cohen, who also had a title and fundraising role at R N C
    Last edited by concerned; 04-10-2018 at 05:40 PM.

  28. #748
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

    This how-to graphic on coping with hyperventilating may help some of my liberal friends here.


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  29. #749
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This how-to graphic on coping with hyperventilating may help some of my liberal friends here.

    if only you cared 1/10th as much anout what trump is doing as what yout liberal friends are doing. you are obsessed in the wrong direction

  30. #750
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    if only you cared 1/10th as much anout what trump is doing as what yout liberal friends are doing. you are obsessed in the wrong direction
    You would poke fun at me if I were acting the way many libs are. Sadly, I can’t put you in that box because you’re too rational.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

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