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Thread: Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

  1. #571
    It looks like Van Der Zwaan is the son in law of Russian-Ukrainian oligarch German Khan (weird name, huh?), worked for a firm in DC called "Scadden". https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-zwaan/553793/

    He helped produce a PR report in 2012 that sought to make the Russian leaning Ukrainian president Viktor Yanokovych - for whom Manafort apparently worked for a decade - look better than the negative reaction to his locking up his opposition, Yulia Tymoshenko. ("Lock Her Up" wasn't exactly a novel concept, it looks like. Manafort's boss actually did it, in the Ukraine.)

    (Yanokovych who was overthrown during the Ukrainian revolution, fled to Moscow, and Yulia Tymoshenko was released from prison by the Ukrainian legislature / parliament.)

    Very, very interestingly, Van Der Zwaan's father in law Khan is the owner of Alfa Bank, the organization that was communicating with Trump Tower at key inflection points during the campaign, according to DNS administrators interviewed for the Slate article I referenced from Oct 31, 2016. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...th_russia.html

    (Alfa Bank was also fingered by Christopher Steele in his dossier as being a conduit between the Kremlin and the Trump campaign.)

    Another source indicates Mueller nailed VDZ for lying because they recovered encrypted communications between VDZ and the person he said he hadn't spoken with, hence the indictment.

    This may amount to very little... or it may indicate Mueller is closing in.



  2. #572


    I don’t mind notes. I think anyone in such a position would use notes.

    But it’s mind boggling to me that POTUS has to have “I Hear You” written down when meeting with mass shooting victims. Empathy shouldn’t require notes.

    To me that’s more evidence of possible cognitive issues than anything.


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  3. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    I don’t mind notes. I think anyone in such a position would use notes.

    But it’s mind boggling to me that POTUS has to have “I Hear You” written down when meeting with mass shooting victims. Empathy shouldn’t require notes.

    To me that’s more evidence of possible cognitive issues than anything.
    Agree. He appears to have taken notes in the preparation, though, you have to give him credit for that.

    His job there was to act presidential, let the students and parents talk and pretend like he understood them and felt their pain. Some are comparing that meeting with the long, bipartisan DACA meeting where he agreed with everything, the "calm genius" exhibition.

    The strategy appears to be let the storm pass, maybe work on some window dressing action (eg, DOJ banning bump-stocks), then maybe sow doubt about the effectiveness of any laws and how "good guy" gun owners can help, but can't if they're restricted by law (or whatever), and then start pounding on the FBI some more.

  4. #574
    Lots of articles the past couple of days about Trump trying force out McMaster, and Javanka in a fight to oust Kelly (and vice versa, or at least deny Kushner security clearance). Will be interesting to see how the dust settles. Will be interesting to see if Trump grants jared an exemption from a permanent security clearance, given everything he said about the Dems' careless handling of classified info (since there is lots of speculation that Jared will never get a permanent one). Not to mention the other 130 people in the WH on temporary clearances for a long, long time.

  5. #575
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    One of these days Trump is going to do something praiseworthy, and you guys are going to go into some kind of cognitive dissonance paralysis.


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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    One of these days Trump is going to do something praiseworthy, and you guys are going to go into some kind of cognitive dissonance paralysis.


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    I would have praised him for the immigration deal he cut with Schumer and Pelosi (for an hour), and for bump stocks (unless that is all there is, and it is a feint). Same with the Senate bipartisan immigration bill that he torpedoed.

    I cant imagine the police want teachers armed (Diehard?). if there is a shooting, how do the cops distinguish between the shooter and the shooting teacher? Age cant be determinative.
    Last edited by concerned; 02-22-2018 at 10:54 AM.

  7. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    One of these days Trump is going to do something praiseworthy, and you guys are going to go into some kind of cognitive dissonance paralysis.


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    Actually I'd be thrilled. I am hoping that him visiting Parkland had a sobering effect.

    But I'm not holding my breath.

  8. #578
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    I would have praised him for the immigration deal he cut with Schumer and Pelosi (for an hour), and for bump stocks (unless that is all there is, and it is a feint). Same with the Senate bipartisan immigration bill that he torpedoed.

    I cant imagine the police want teachers armed (Diehard?). if there is a shooting, how do the cops distinguish between the shooter and the shooting teacher? Age cant be determinative.
    The attention paid to his notes did provoke an eye-roll on my part.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #579
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    I would have praised him for the immigration deal he cut with Schumer and Pelosi (for an hour), and for bump stocks (unless that is all there is, and it is a feint). Same with the Senate bipartisan immigration bill that he torpedoed.

    I cant imagine the police want teachers armed (Diehard?). if there is a shooting, how do the cops distinguish between the shooter and the shooting teacher? Age cant be determinative.
    There would need to be some ways to identify them for sure. We had that issue with trolley square, officers were in plain clothes assignments. We’ve adjusted our policies to avoid that


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  10. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    One of these days Trump is going to do something praiseworthy, and you guys are going to go into some kind of cognitive dissonance paralysis.
    lol.

    I liked how he's pushing for an increase in the age limit of buyers of rifles from 18 to 21, thereby (ostensibly) angering the NRA.

    (He probably doesn't realize it's a state issue, but it's the thought that counts.)

  11. #581
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Study: 90% of Americans Opposed to Each Other

    https://www.theonion.com/study-90-of...her-1823168096

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  12. #582
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Study: 90% of Americans Opposed to Each Other

    https://www.theonion.com/study-90-of...her-1823168096
    Speaking from my own feelings I’m surprised it is that low.


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  13. #583
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Speaking from my own feelings I’m surprised it is that low.


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    I think I am now opposed to you.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I think I am now opposed to you.
    You both can just shut the F up.

  15. #585
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    You both can just shut the F up.
    Now you're on the list too, buddy.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  16. #586
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

    This seemed quite plausible to me. The piece is a little long and detailed, but worth reading. He may be right.

    Don’t be misled by the headline. He’s not suggesting that anything is over.

    Is collusion with Russia over?

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...&utm_term=VDHM
    Last edited by LA Ute; 02-25-2018 at 11:18 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  17. #587
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This seemed quite plausible to me. The piece is a little long and detailed, but worth reading. He may be right.

    Don’t be misled by the headline. He’s not suggesting that anything is over.

    Is collusion with Russia over?

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...&utm_term=VDHM

    If there's anything we've learned, it's that Mueller is a few steps ahead of just about everyone.
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 02-25-2018 at 07:25 PM.

  18. #588

  19. #589
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post

    If there's anything we've learned, it's that Mueller is a few steps ahead of just about everyone.
    I liked the idea that at a minimum Mueller’s report will criticize Trump’s “appalling lack of judgment” in hiring people like Manafort and in stubbornly and repeatedly making flattering statements about Putin. I don’t think Trump’s a crook, I just think he’s a fool. In some ways a crook does less damage.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I liked the idea that at a minimum Mueller’s report will criticize Trump’s “appalling lack of judgment” in hiring people like Manafort and in stubbornly and repeatedly making flattering statements about Putin. I don’t think Trump’s a crook, I just think he’s a fool. In some ways a crook does less damage.
    Depends on what you mean by crook.

    He’s a proven crook before becoming president.


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  21. #591
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Depends on what you mean by crook.

    He’s a proven crook before becoming president.
    I mean that I don’t think he intentionally broke any laws while running for president. As for him being a crook,has he been convicted of something? Honest question. I don’t know, as I paid no attention to him before he started running for president this time. To me he was just a guy trying to sell books and draw attention to himself.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 02-26-2018 at 09:24 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  22. #592
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I mean that I don’t think he intentionally broke any laws while running for president. As for him being a crook,has he been convicted of something? Honest question. I don’t know, as I paid no attention to him before he started running for president this time. To me he was just a guy trying to sell books and draw attention to himself.
    It’s the civil side.

    It’s well documented Trump uses contractors etc and doesn’t fully pay them.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-...lls-1465504454


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  23. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I mean that I don’t think he intentionally broke any laws while running for president. As for him being a crook,has he been convicted of something? Honest question. I don’t know, as I paid no attention to him before he started running for president this time. To me he was just a guy trying to sell books and draw attention to himself.
    Why in the world would you give him the benefit of the doubt? The guy who basically defrauded all the Trump university victims? The guy who stiffed all his contractors over and over again for years? They guy who used his charitable foundation for non-charitable expenses (like buying a portrait of himself?).

    Until you see his finances, you will never know (which of course is the reason he wont release his tax returns). But he would have to be very naive not to know his condo sales were laundering drug and Russian money (if not assisting the laundering himself). That is basically how he got finance after the major banks refused to do business with him. Guys like Felix Slater are not white shoe bankers. And partisan that I am, I don't believe for a second that he was not aware that the Russians and Wikileaks were helping his campaign, as evidenced by his repeated praise for Wikileaks, his invitation to Russia to find and release emails, Roger Stone's foreknowledge of the documents that were going to be released, and his absolute stonewalling of the investigation, etc. And I don't believe that Flynn acted rogue in his discussions about the Majinsky act violations, which violated federal statute.

    You cant really believe that Trump's only fault is in hiring the wrong people.

  24. #594
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Why in the world would you give him the benefit of the doubt? The guy who basically defrauded all the Trump university victims? The guy who stiffed all his contractors over and over again for years? They guy who used his charitable foundation for non-charitable expenses (like buying a portrait of himself?).

    Until you see his finances, you will never know (which of course is the reason he wont release his tax returns). But he would have to be very naive not to know his condo sales were laundering drug and Russian money (if not assisting the laundering himself). That is basically how he got finance after the major banks refused to do business with him. Guys like Felix Slater are not white shoe bankers. And partisan that I am, I don't believe for a second that he was not aware that the Russians and Wikileaks were helping his campaign, as evidenced by his repeated praise for Wikileaks, his invitation to Russia to find and release emails, Roger Stone's foreknowledge of the documents that were going to be released, and his absolute stonewalling of the investigation, etc. And I don't believe that Flynn acted rogue in his discussions about the Majinsky act violations, which violated federal statute.

    You cant really believe that Trump's only fault is in hiring the wrong people.
    I’m not going to take on the burden of defending the entire life of any politician, especially Trump. I was just saying that during the campaign I don’t believe he did anything illegal, at least not intentionally. I think he is just an eegomaniacal fool Who lacks basic decency. But I’m prepared to wait for the outcome of the investigation. It would certainly not be a disaster for the country if he had to leave office. Then you guys could make Mike Pence out to be a Nazi.

    [EDIT: By “you guys” I meant left-liberals generally. Admittedly an over-generalization.]
    Last edited by LA Ute; 02-26-2018 at 03:32 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #595
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Then you guys could make Mike Pence out to be a Nazi.


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    Back to full Breitbart mode, I see. Didn't you listen to Mona Charon? Read Max Boot? they should be your compatriots.

  26. #596
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Back to full Breitbart mode, I see. Didn't you listen to Mona Charon? Read Max Boot? they should be your compatriots.
    I can agree with those two without thinking it’s ok to call Mike Pence a Nazi. Are you willing to concede that there were really a lot of overwrought statements made about George W. Bush, John McCain, and Mitt Romney?.Romney was going to “put y’all back in chains.“ Surely you haven’t forgotten? By the way, I’ve never read Breitbart in my life. If you keep accusing me of being one of those people, I’m going to say you read Mother Jones for your political guidance. That’ll fix you.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  27. #597

    Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

    Trump says he would have stormed into the school even if he didn’t have a weapon.

    Yeah, me too. 🙄

    It’s kind of childish to make those sort of proclamations, don’t you think?

    But I’ll just say I’m skeptical, his inability to take criticism, his childish fighting, his avoidance of just about everything does not indicate a man who would run in and charge a gunman.

    I’d like to say I’d do the same, but I don’t really know that until I face it. I think that is why police need copious amounts of training because the natural human response is to run away from danger.


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  28. #598
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Trump says he would have stormed into the school even if he didn’t have a weapon.

    Yeah, me too. 

    It’s kind of childish to make those sort of proclamations, don’t you think?

    But I’ll just say I skeptical, his inability to take criticism, his childish fighting, his avoidance of just about everything does not indicate a man who would run in and charge a gunman.


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  29. #599
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I’m not going to take on the burden of defending the entire life of any politician, especially Trump. I was just saying that during the campaign I don’t believe he did anything illegal, at least not intentionally. I think he is just an eegomaniacal fool Who lacks basic decency. But I’m prepared to wait for the outcome of the investigation. It would certainly not be a disaster for the country if he had to leave office. Then you guys could make Mike Pence out to be a Nazi.
    I don't think Trump is a crook in the same sense Nixon was. I think he just does whatever he wants to do, and has always had a cadre of lawyers, PR folks and assorted "fixers" to clean up any negative ramifications, keep aggrieved women silenced, bully various NYC people or organizations that stood in the way of his ambitions.

    Trump seems to treat "laws" in the same way he treats "marriage vows"... issues for other people to deal with (either "rules for the little people", or situations for attorneys to clean up).

    Tony Schwartz, DT's ghost writer for "Art of the Deal" told us all what Trump is like. He nailed it. For example, I don't think Trump has any animus toward Jeff Sessions. It's just that Sessions has made it complicated for Trump to halt the Mueller investigation. That's it.

  30. #600
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    I don't think Trump is a crook in the same sense Nixon was. I think he just does whatever he wants to do, and has always had a cadre of lawyers, PR folks and assorted "fixers" to clean up any negative ramifications, keep aggrieved women silenced, bully various NYC people or organizations that stood in the way of his ambitions.

    Trump seems to treat "laws" in the same way he treats "marriage vows"... issues for other people to deal with (either "rules for the little people", or situations for attorneys to clean up).

    Tony Schwartz, DT's ghost writer for "Art of the Deal" told us all what Trump is like. He nailed it. For example, I don't think Trump has any animus toward Jeff Sessions. It's just that Sessions has made it complicated for Trump to halt the Mueller investigation. That's it.
    We agree, you and I.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

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