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Thread: Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

  1. #901
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Wut?


  2. #902
    Well here’s something that probably has Fox News very befuddled.

    Trump has cancelled the meeting with Kim Jong Un.

    Color me shocked.

    In all seriousness, I think it would have been far more surprising if it had actually happened.

    Pretty sure WWE is more realistic than politics these days


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  3. #903
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Pretty sure WWE is more realistic than politics these days.
    Lol.

  4. #904
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  5. #905
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Fascinating CNN discussion about Roseanne Barr and Samantha Bee.

    https://youtu.be/2kixh3SUdr0

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #906
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Bannon on His 'Revolution': Never Mind

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/bannon-...on-never-mind/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #907
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Fascinating CNN discussion about Roseanne Barr and Samantha Bee.

    https://youtu.be/2kixh3SUdr0
    I don't see the statements as similar.

    Barr said Valerie Jarrett was the love-child of the Muslim Brotherhood & Planet of the Apes. To me, that is a statement dripping of underlying racism.

    Bee said that Ivanka is a feckless c**t. That is beyond crude, but equivalent, in my opinion, to saying she is a clueless bitch. Crude, but not racist.

  8. #908
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I don't see the statements as similar.

    Barr said Valerie Jarrett was the love-child of the Muslim Brotherhood & Planet of the Apes. To me, that is a statement dripping of underlying racism.

    Bee said that Ivanka is a feckless c**t. That is beyond crude, but equivalent, in my opinion, to saying she is a clueless bitch. Crude, but not racist.
    I would not call it crude, I would call it obscene. I don’t think it is equivalent to
    Barr’s tweet either, but it is probably the worst term anyone can throw at a woman. In the metoo era it is the last word that should be normalized. In this case the word was not an outburst, it was scripted. I thought the CNN commentator‘s criticism was compelling.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #909
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I don't see the statements as similar.
    The statements are similar mainly in the sense that they add evidence to an already large pile that neither woman is clever, funny, or deserving of my time.

  10. #910
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I would not call it crude, I would call it obscene. I don’t think it is equivalent to
    Barr’s tweet either, but it is probably the worst term anyone can throw at a woman. In the metoo era it is the last word that should be normalized. In this case the word was not an outburst, it was scripted. I thought the CNN commentator‘s criticism was compelling.


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    Unless you’re British.


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  11. #911
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Unless you’re British.


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    Relevance?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  12. #912
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Byron York:

    Now, with the Trump lawyers’ memo leaked to the New York Times, it seems clear that all the key players in the Flynn affair, including the president himself, were aware of the FBI’s assessment in real time. And the president’s knowledge — that the agents did not think Flynn lied, plus strong hints that the investigation was actually over — underlay Trump’s Feb. 14, 2017, statement to Comey that, “I hope you can see your way to letting this go, to letting Flynn go.” Trump’s lawyers argue that the president had no intention to obstruct an investigation he thought was finished.

    The leaked memo portrays a confused White House in the administration’s early days, trying to figure out what the Justice Department was up to with its interest in Flynn’s conversations with Kislyak.
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...form=hootsuite

    I’ll be so glad when this is over and we know what happened and when.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  13. #913
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Byron York:



    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...form=hootsuite

    I’ll be so glad when this is over and we know what happened and when.
    Cough twice if you mean yes and once if you mean no. Do you understand? (silence). Is the DOJ investigating Flynn? (silence). I'll take that as a no.

  14. #914
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Relevance?
    To me it’s relevant.

    Words have different meanings in different places. That word is not the worst word you could call someone in Britain.

    Racism is racism is racism, doesn’t matter where you are.

    (And we won’t even touch on Ted Nugent)




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  15. #915
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    To me it’s relevant.

    Words have different meanings in different places. That word is not the worst word you could call someone in Britain.

    Racism is racism is racism, doesn’t matter where you are.

    (And we won’t even touch on Ted Nugent)
    She used the word in America.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  16. #916
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    She used the word in America.
    Yup.

    And you’ll never get the point, so it’s pointless to debate with you.


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  17. #917
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Yup.

    And you’ll never get the point, so it’s pointless to debate with you.
    [EDIT: I didn't mean to get crosswise with you on this.]

    I think the problem is a failure to communicate. You seem to think I am comparing what Samantha Bee said to what Roseanne Barr tweeted. I'm not. There is no comparison between Barr's vile racism and Bee's vile obscenity. They are completely different. Barr’s was horrible and she got what she deserved. I simply agreed with the CNN commentator about Bee. So you are arguing with a position I don't take. On my side, I thought you were trying to excuse Bee because she used a word that is not as terrible in Britain as it is in the USA. Looks like you're not saying that.

    Here's the video of the commentator who I thought was on-point:

    Last edited by LA Ute; 06-05-2018 at 01:55 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  18. #918
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    I have a sneaking suspicion that Trump supporters would feel very differently about the self-pardon theory if Hillary were in office.

  19. #919
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    I have a sneaking suspicion that Trump supporters would feel very differently about the self-pardon theory if Hillary were in office.
    No doubt. His and Giuliani’s antics on that subject are on my top 5 list of damaging things he’s said and done.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #920
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    No doubt. His and Giuliani’s antics on that subject are on my top 5 list of damaging things he’s said and done.
    I saw an attorney on TV making a point that they are probably positioning themselves for an impending impeachment. So they are having to say extreme things so they can eventually moderate into the middle and also to begin a PR campaign behind the impeachment.

    I don't know if that is true or not, having no knowledge of what Mueller is actually finding, but it seems to be the only thing that makes sense regarding the outrageous stuff that is being said right now. I was never a huge Gulliani fan although I used to respect him. He's off his rocker right now.

  21. #921

  22. #922
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I saw an attorney on TV making a point that they are probably positioning themselves for an impending impeachment. So they are having to say extreme things so they can eventually moderate into the middle and also to begin a PR campaign behind the impeachment.

    I don't know if that is true or not, having no knowledge of what Mueller is actually finding, but it seems to be the only thing that makes sense regarding the outrageous stuff that is being said right now. I was never a huge Gulliani fan although I used to respect him. He's off his rocker right now.

    This is all I know about Guilani: I have a close friend who was the AUSA in the eastern district of NY, Brooklyn. He did organized crime the whole time he was a prosecutor. He was the second chair the first time they tried John Gotti (when he got off, ie. the Teflon Don), and was first chair the second trial, when he was convicted. The day they indicted Gotti, Guilani held a press conference to announce it. He was US Attorney in the southern district of NY (Manhattan) and had absolutely nothing to do with it, but wanted credit and publicity.
    Last edited by concerned; 06-05-2018 at 03:42 PM.

  23. #923
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    This is all I know about Guilani: I have a close friend who was the AUSA in the eastern district of NY, Brooklyn. He did organized crime the whole time he was a prosecutor. He was the second chair the first time they tried John Gotti (when he got off, ie. the Teflon Don), and was first chair the second trial, when he was convicted. The day they indicted Gotti, Guilani held a press conference to announce it. He was US Attorney in the southern district of NY (Manhattan) and had absolutely nothing to do with it, but wanted credit and publicity.
    Heh. Nice.

  24. #924
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    This is all I know about Guilani: I have a close friend who was the AUSA in the eastern district of NY, Brooklyn. He did organized crime the whole time he was a prosecutor. He was the second chair the first time they tried John Gotti (when he got off, ie. the Teflon Don), and was first chair the second trial, when he was convicted. The day they indicted Gotti, Guilani held a press conference to announce it. He was US Attorney in the southern district of NY (Manhattan) and had absolutely nothing to do with it, but wanted credit and publicity.
    No offense, but I’m sure you know more than that about Giuliani.

    I’ll preface this by saying that, in general, I am deeply mistrusting of prosecutors. They represent a combination of substantial if not unilimited resources of the government and soaring ambition usually pitted against individuals or private interests that ought to be automatically viewed with suspicion. Our pro bono work has only reinforced this instinct. Because of this, I’m troubled that once again we are criminalizing what is essentially politics. I agree with Dershowitz; a true civil liberatarian ought to be troubled by this, and it was possible for Congress to investigate Russia’s meddling in the election without criminalizing politics by engaging a prosecutor. (Mueller is ambitious and zealous like any prosecutor, and I’m still waiting for him to show us that there is any even probable cause that Trump committed a crime to justify his involvement in the first place.)

    Now, Rudy Giuliani is one of the most important prosecutors in the history of our country and one to whom we all owe a debt of gratitude. It was his work as US Attorney in the Southern District of New York, certainly the most important US Attorney’s office and court in the country in terms of financial matters, that ultimately crushed the Italian mafia (which J Edgar Hoover denied even existed) and purged Wall Street of a level of corruption never seen since. America’s prosperity depends on financial markets, and the system needs to be fair to do its magic, as demonstrated by places like Brazil. Does anyone but me remember how Giuliani had rich investment bankers arrested and handcuffed?

    As for Giuliani not trying the case and taking credit, the US Attorney never tries the case. But it’s his office, his hires who try the case, his decision to prosecute and guidance that leads to the good and bad results. It’s strange that a trial lawyer would complain that Giuliani took the credit for a courtroom victory. This always happens in any US Attorney’s office.

    Later, Rudy Giuliani gained worldwide fame as mayor of New York City on 9/11, for his grit and leadership.

    P.S. I am not a fan of Trump. But I think that we need to just grit our teeth and try to elect someone else next election. I’ve seen this movie before—Watergate probably did most damage in leading to Iran-contra prosecution of Reagan, Lewinsky related impeachment’s of Clinton, and now this. Remember that the Reign of Terror and the Stalin show trials were the result of criminalizing political disagreement.
    Last edited by SeattleUte; 06-05-2018 at 07:34 PM.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  25. #925
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I’ll preface this by saying that, in general, I am deeply mistrusting of prosecutors.
    I agree.

    As for Rudy - he's throwing away quite the legacy. And for what?

  26. #926
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    No offense, but I’m sure you know more than that about Giuliani.

    I’ll preface this by saying that, in general, I am deeply mistrusting of prosecutors. They represent a combination of substantial if not unilimited resources of the government and soaring ambition usually pitted against individuals or private interests that ought to be automatically viewed with suspicion. Our pro bono work has only reinforced this instinct. Because of this, I’m troubled that once again we are criminalizing what is essentially politics. I agree with Dershowitz; a true civil liberatarian ought to be troubled by this, and it was possible for Congress to investigate Russia’s meddling in the election without criminalizing politics by engaging a prosecutor. (Mueller is ambitious and zealous like any prosecutor, and I’m still waiting for him to show us that there is any even probable cause that Trump committed a crime to justify his involvement in the first place.)

    Now, Rudy Giuliani is one of the most important prosecutors in the history of our country and one to whom we all owe a debt of gratitude. It was his work as US Attorney in the Southern District of New York, certainly the most important US Attorney’s office and court in the country in terms of financial matters, that ultimately crushed the Italian mafia (which J Edgar Hoover denied even existed) and purged Wall Street of a level of corruption never seen since. America’s prosperity depends on financial markets, and the system needs to be fair to do its magic, as demonstrated by places like Brazil. Does anyone but me remember how Giuliani had rich investment bankers arrested and handcuffed?

    As for Giuliani not trying the case and taking credit, the US Attorney never tries the case. But it’s his office, his hires who try the case, his decision to prosecute and guidance that leads to the good and bad results. It’s strange that a trial lawyer would complain that Giuliani took the credit for a courtroom victory. This always happens in any US Attorney’s office.

    Later, Rudy Giuliani gained worldwide fame as mayor of New York City on 9/11, for his grit and leadership.

    P.S. I am not a fan of Trump. But I think that we need to just grit our teeth and try to elect someone else next election. I’ve seen this movie before—Watergate probably did most damage in leading to Iran-contra prosecution of Reagan, Lewinsky related impeachment’s of Clinton, and now this. Remember that the Reign of Terror and the Stalin show trials were the result of criminalizing political disagreement.
    The irony of your dissent is mind boggling. Could it be, maybe, just maybe, that in this instance Mueller is "Guilliani" and Trump is the "rich investment banker needing to be handcuffed" in order to preserve America's prosperity?

    What's more, how can you simultaneously laud Guilliani for his ambition and zealotry and deride Mueller for acting similarly? All I can surmise from your above post is you secretly really like Trump; you're really hoping he builds that wall.
    Last edited by tooblue; 06-05-2018 at 08:53 PM.

  27. #927
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post

    As for Giuliani not trying the case and taking credit, the US Attorney never tries the case. But it’s his office, his hires who try the case, his decision to prosecute and guidance that leads to the good and bad results. It’s strange that a trial lawyer would complain that Giuliani took the credit for a courtroom victory. This always happens in any US Attorney’s office.

    Sometimes you can be such a complete dolt. The EDNY is a completely different JURISDICTION than the SDNY. The US Attorney in the eastern district, not the southern district, supervised the prosecution. Guilani had no supervisory or other role in the investigation or prosecution. Guiliani was trying to take credit for somebody else's work, and upstage the us attorney in the EDNY. It pissed off everybody in the EDNY, but it was basically par for the course. Rudy was/is a well known publicity hound.

    No offense, but how can you pontificate with such false authority when you have no idea what you are talking about.
    Last edited by concerned; 06-05-2018 at 11:23 PM.

  28. #928
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    What's more, how can you simultaneously laud Guilliani for his ambition and zealotry and deride Mueller for acting similarly? All I can surmise from your above post is you secretly really like Trump; you're really hoping he builds that wall.
    Whatever else might be said about Seattle, there is plenty of evidence that he is no fan of Trump. He has been consistent in that point of view for the last couple of years. In fact, it makes me laugh to see anyone accuse him of being a Trump fan. Poor guy.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  29. #929
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    The irony of your dissent is mind boggling. Could it be, maybe, just maybe, that in this instance Mueller is "Guilliani" and Trump is the "rich investment banker needing to be handcuffed" in order to preserve America's prosperity?

    What's more, how can you simultaneously laud Guilliani for his ambition and zealotry and deride Mueller for acting similarly? All I can surmise from your above post is you secretly really like Trump; you're really hoping he builds that wall.
    “The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.” F. Scott Fitzgerald

    I know. To you it’s an unfathomable trick. Like a special effect.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  30. #930
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Sometimes you can be such a complete dolt. The EDNY is a completely different JURISDICTION than the SDNY. The US Attorney in the eastern district, not the southern district, supervised the prosecution. Guilani had no supervisory or other role in the investigation or prosecution. Guiliani was trying to take credit for somebody else's work, and upstage the us attorney in the EDNY. It pissed off everybody in the EDNY, but it was basically par for the course. Rudy was/is a well known publicity hound.

    No offense, but how can you pontificate with such false authority when you have no idea what you are talking about.
    I didn’t read closely enough to note your reference to the Eastern District. Nor did I remember that Gottib was tried there. Probably because I was in shock reading that what your friend told you is ALL you know about Giuliani. And certainly also because Giuliani had a lot to do with Gotti’s arrest and conviction. He pursued the heads of all five mafia families successfully, to the point that Gotti himself was involved in a contract to assassinate Giuliani. As I’m sure you know, the precise court in which Gotti was tried is an accident of circumstance and a matter of prosecutorial discretion, Including which of the defendant’s many alleged crimes is easiest to prove, location of the crime, the preferred judge and jury pool and other possible factors. Giuliani taking credit for Gotti’s conviction was not out of the norm or inappropriate. He also spent an unusual amount of time for an U S Attorney actually in court.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

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