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Thread: Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

  1. #961
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I agree. It's unbelievable. I would quit my job with la migra before doing what they are doing. If I were the governor of Texas, I would arrest immigration officials and force a showdown.

    LA and others (do we have others on this board?), I wonder if you ever consider leaving the GOP like George Will did. What's keeping you in there?
    I’m not leaving just because one idiot affiliated with the party became president. The party is bigger than, and means more than, whoever holds the office of POTUS.


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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #962
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I’m not leaving just because one idiot affiliated with the party became president. The party is bigger than, and means more than, whoever holds the office of POTUS.
    Just curious. I don't really understand why people belong to political parties. There are serious issues with both parties, and the GOP's issues go well beyond the one idiot in the white house. From the outside, there appear to be a lot of people in the party who support the president.

  3. #963
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I believe those who promulgate and support this policy, either directly or indirectly, will be held accountable. I am disappointed by the silence of religious leaders, especially my own.
    Here's the LDS statement:

    https://www.ldschurchnews.com/latest...igration-47390

  4. #964
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Just curious. I don't really understand why people belong to political parties. There are serious issues with both parties, and the GOP's issues go well beyond the one idiot in the white house. From the outside, there appear to be a lot of people in the party who support the president.
    I think the republicans support him because he has power and is likely to push their individual agendas not because they like or agree with him. The second he loses some significant popularity they'll turn on him in a New York minute.

    This is a more extreme example than intended and I'm not calling Trump Stalin, but just like in WW2 the allies worked with Stalin, not because they agreed with him but because we shared a common enemy. That's the relationship Trump has with most of the Republican Party. It isn't a sustainable model either.

    Conversely the significant leadership vacuum with the Democrats - which is not dissimilar to the one the Republicans had that lead to Trump becoming president - may produce and equally, if not more unqualified presidential candidate, the kind that'll make us all wish Bernie Sanders was their guy.


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  5. #965
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I think the republicans support him because he has power and is likely to push their individual agendas not because they like or agree with him. The second he loses some significant popularity they'll turn on him in a New York minute.
    Does this make them better or worse? Is there a line that cannot be passed before they turn on him? Separating children from their parents and putting the children into a cage in Texas does not cross that line.

  6. #966
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Does this make them better or worse? Is there a line that cannot be passed before they turn on him? Separating children from their parents and putting the children into a cage in Texas does not cross that line.
    When I comes to politics today, I'd say basically no. The line that is crossed is the one that won't get them re-elected. At this point it is up to we the people to make clear to our politicians that we won't tolerate it.


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  7. #967
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    ……..I don't really understand why people belong to political parties.......

    In Utah, if you want to caucus with the republicans/libertarians and select a delegate (or be a delegate), you must be a registered republican/libertarian. IOW, if you want to have influence in the party, you need to be registered with the party. This isn't true for the democratic party, nor is it necessarily true for other states.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  8. #968
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    In Utah, if you want to caucus with the republicans/libertarians and select a delegate (or be a delegate), you must be a registered republican/libertarian. IOW, if you want to have influence in the party, you need to be registered with the party. This isn't true for the democratic party, nor is it necessarily true for other states.
    Thanks. It's not true in Colorado where I live. I can understand a desire to make positive changes from within. I would rather not belong to an organization I think is harmful, but I can understand.

    Can someone register with both parties in order to caucus with both?

  9. #969
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Thanks. It's not true in Colorado where I live. I can understand a desire to make positive changes from within. I would rather not belong to an organization I think is harmful, but I can understand.

    Can someone register with both parties in order to caucus with both?
    Nope.


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  10. #970
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Just curious. I don't really understand why people belong to political parties. There are serious issues with both parties, and the GOP's issues go well beyond the one idiot in the white house. From the outside, there appear to be a lot of people in the party who support the president.
    For me it’s just a matter of aligning myself with the party that most fits my own political views. I have never been active in the GOP as a party officer. I think the Republicans deserve the term “the stupid party.” I’m also fairly moderate and it’s hard to find a place among the true believers these days. (In California I am considered a rock-ribbed conservative; in Utah I am seen as a squish.) Dems are much better at sticking together and playing clever politics. I pick candidates who I think are good people and who will try to advance positions I support, although like everyone I know I don’t agree with every pol about everything. I will support such candidates, sometimes by giving money or asking friends to give money, usually by telling my friends to support the candidate, etc. I worked hard for Carly Fiorina against Boxer in 2010, for Romney both times he ran, and for Rubio in 2016. As people who like to be involved go I am pretty typical, I think.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #971
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    In Utah, if you want to caucus with the republicans/libertarians and select a delegate (or be a delegate), you must be a registered republican/libertarian. IOW, if you want to have influence in the party, you need to be registered with the party. This isn't true for the democratic party, nor is it necessarily true for other states.
    Although it is apparently ridiculously easy to register for a party. You can go to the Utah election website and click a checkbox. So I think you can flip back and forth fairly easily.

  12. #972
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    The mental gymnastics people are going through to support this immigration policy are depressively impressive. I really don't know how to respond to some of these people.

  13. #973
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    The mental gymnastics people are going through to support this immigration policy are depressively impressive. I really don't know how to respond to some of these people.
    This is pretty good:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...ake-seriously/

    It’s from National Review which is always conservative, but this guy has a very intelligent view.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #974
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    It’s from National Review which is always conservative, but this guy has a very intelligent view.
    It's alright, I guess. Nothing new, and no proposals. It's just not the right time for a conservative to make a call for both sides to sit down and work out an intelligent compromise on immigration.

    This article could have been written 1, 2, 5, or 10 years ago, but we are in a crisis now. You don't just write another ho-hum article on how immigration is complicated in the middle of a crisis. Liberal writers are obviously going to be loud and critical right now. The real need is for conservative writers and news sources to be equally loud and critical.

  15. #975
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    It's alright, I guess. Nothing new, and no proposals. It's just not the right time for a conservative to make a call for both sides to sit down and work out an intelligent compromise on immigration.

    This article could have been written 1, 2, 5, or 10 years ago, but we are in a crisis now. You don't just write another ho-hum article on how immigration is complicated in the middle of a crisis. Liberal writers are obviously going to be loud and critical right now. The real need is for conservative writers and news sources to be equally loud and critical.
    I see it differently. He slams those who are trying to invent euphemisms for putting children in cages and says the situation is horrible. Then he steps back and takes a longer view.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  16. #976
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Well, it seems that Trump is now doing something about the thing he did that he said he couldn't do anything about.

    Jeff Sessions will have to consult a different part of the bible. Maybe he should do New Testament this time.

    The real news is that Kirstjen Nielson will be allowed to eat in Mexican restaurants again.

  17. #977
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    Well, it seems that Trump is now doing something about the thing he did that he said he couldn't do anything about.
    I am glad.

  18. #978
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    The real news is that Kirstjen Nielson will be allowed to eat in Mexican restaurants again.
    Don’t be too sure about that. The people who shouted her out of her meal are not the type who think past sins should be forgotten.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  19. #979
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    Well, it seems that Trump is now doing something about the thing he did that he said he couldn't do anything about.

    Jeff Sessions will have to consult a different part of the bible. Maybe he should do New Testament this time.

    The real news is that Kirstjen Nielson will be allowed to eat in Mexican restaurants again.
    So I wonder what Kirstjen Nielson thinks now, after Trump completely capitulates on a policy that she fell on the sword and went out to a press conference to defend to the death three days ago and became the public face of it, after Sarah Huckabee Sanders refused to it, after John Kelly advised Kirstjen not to do it, after she opposed the policy internally before it was announced, and after Trump repeatedly berated her in cabinet meetings for being a Bushie and not doing enough to protect the border.

  20. #980
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    So I wonder what Kirstjen Nielson thinks now,
    What did she expect, though? This was a clear loser of a position. Did she ever think she would come out looking anything but bad?

  21. #981
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    What did she expect, though? This was a clear loser of a position. Did she ever think she would come out looking anything but bad?

    if I had to guess, she was hoping she would bond with Trump and win his confidence by being a hardliner; thought they would tough it out and she would come out ahead with Trump.

  22. #982
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    ... I worked hard for Carly Fiorina against Boxer in 2010, for Romney both times he ran, and for Rubio in 2016...
    Maybe some day you will pick a winner

  23. #983
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyUte View Post
    Maybe some day you will pick a winner
    G.W. Bush. Both times.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  24. #984
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    G.W. Bush. Both times.
    And the Utes! Don't forget that!

  25. #985
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    G.W. Bush. Both times.
    He only won once.
    I can't believe how much better G Dub looks today. The Republican Party just keeps lowering the bar.

  26. #986
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I agree. It's unbelievable. I would quit my job with la migra before doing what they are doing. If I were the governor of Texas, I would arrest immigration officials and force a showdown.

    LA and others (do we have others on this board?), I wonder if you ever consider leaving the GOP like George Will did. What's keeping you in there?
    The GOP left me -- or rather, the indication was rather strong in 2012 that I was not wanted in the party.
    "It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant

  27. #987
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    He only won once.
    I can't believe how much better G Dub looks today. The Republican Party just keeps lowering the bar.
    Hey, the worst you can say about 2000 is that he only won 5-4.

    Dems made fun of Romney’s Boy Scout image. Now you’re appalled by Trump. It’s hard to figure you guys out.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  28. #988
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Hey, the worst you can say about 2000 is that he only won 5-4.

    Dems made fun of Romney’s Boy Scout image. Now you’re appalled by Trump. It’s hard to figure you guys out.
    Romney's image was a class thing, Trump's the utter lack of any (as well as competence, character, integrity, honesty, ...)

  29. #989
    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    Romney's image was a class thing
    ...and a party thing. Democrats would have had no problem with Romney's class or image if he'd been a member of their party.

  30. #990
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

    How to get more Trump.

    Pam Bondi confronted by protesters outside Mister Rogers movie

    http://www.tampabay.com/florida-poli...-rogers-movie/

    This is another way:

    Earlier this week, actor Peter Fonda tweeted that First Lady Melania Trump should "stand up against the giant a****** she is married to," and "we should rip Barron Trump from his mother's arms and put him in a cage with pedophiles."

    In other tweets, he said that Sanders' children should be kidnapped and Nielsen should be caged naked and raped in public while being filmed.
    Then you’ve got DHS Sec. Kirstjen Nielsen being chased out of a Mexican restaurant in Washington, activists protesting at her home, and Sarah Huckabee Sanders and her family being refused service in a restaurant.

    The new American Way, I guess. Trump is far from blameless in this, of course. But whatever happened to simply voting somebody out of office, or stopping their legislative initiatives, instead of engaging in tactic that look like fascism?

    This looks like a decent breakdown:

    Ari Fleischer, who served as press secretary for President George W. Bush, tweeted Saturday: “I guess we’re heading into an America with Democrat-only restaurants, which will lead to Republican-only restaurants. Do the fools who threw Sarah out, and the people who cheer them on, really want us to be that kind of country?”

    Rep. Elijah E. Cummings of Maryland, a frequent critic of the Trump administration, was one of the few Democrats to speak out against the restaurant owner’s actions.

    “I think the restaurant owner should have served her. I really do,” Mr. Cummings said on CBS-TV’s “Face the Nation.”

    At the same time, he blamed the increasingly vicious political climate in large part on Mr. Trump.

    “This tone is horrible,” Mr. Cummings said. “I think President Trump has created this. Since he’s become president and even before, he’s basically given people license to state things that are ugly, and those things then turn into actions, as we can now see.”

    However, Rep. Maxine Waters, California Democrat, took a different tack and called for more public confrontations. She told a cheering crowd that Trump administration officials should not be allowed anywhere in public.

    “Let’s stay the course, let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up,” she said at a speech, the video of which was posted Sunday on social media. “If you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd and you push back on them, and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.”

    Rep. Barbara Lee, California Democrat, said Mrs. Sanders should be reported to the Office of Government Ethics for tweeting about a private business on her government Twitter account.

    “If you use a government account to attack a private business on personal time, I mean, that’s not right,” she said on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

    Democrats routinely blame Mr. Trump for lowering the public discourse through his name-calling of political adversaries, including Ms. Warren (“Pocahontas”) and former Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter (“a crude dope”).

    Former CIA Director Michael V. Hayden even compared the family separation issue to death camps in Nazi Germany. That brought a rebuke from others, including University of Pennsylvania history professor Jonathan Zimmerman, writing at SFChronicle.com.

    “If I engage in the same violent and irresponsible rhetoric as Donald Trump, I’m not ‘resisting’ him,” Mr. Zimmerman wrote. “To the contrary, I’m going into the muck with him. That’s not resistance; it’s capitulation.”

    Public anger directed at Mr. Trump and top administration officials is increasing as the White House proposes to assign protection duties for Cabinet-level officials to the already stretched-thin U.S. Marshals Service. The Office of Management and Budget announced the plan Thursday as part of a proposed major overhaul of the federal government, including the merger of some Cabinet agencies.

    Marshals around the country were alerted in a memo on Wednesday that the service was preparing for the move.

    “Consolidate protective details at certain civilian Executive Branch agencies under the US Marshals Service in order to more effectively and efficiently monitor and respond to potential threats,” stated the White House’s recommendation. “Threat assessments would be conducted with support from the U.S. Secret Service.”

    Rep. Bob Goodlatte, Virginia Republican, invited Mrs. Sanders back to Lexington, saying the rude reception she received at the Red Hen restaurant didn’t reflect the “kind and caring people” of his 6th Congressional District.

    “What @PressSec experienced in Lexington [Friday] night is very unfortunate and doesn’t reflect accurately upon the kind and caring people of Lexington that I know,” tweeted Mr. Goodlatte. “There are many great innovative businesses in #VA06 that I hope you’ll come to back to visit.”
    https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2...tm_medium=push
    Last edited by LA Ute; 06-25-2018 at 07:18 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

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