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Thread: Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

  1. #1201
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The notion that the problem is coming solely from the right strains credulity.
    It's safe to say that the problem isn't "solely" on the right. Do you think both sides are equally culpable?

  2. #1202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    It's safe to say that the problem isn't "solely" on the right. Do you think both sides are equally culpable?
    Overall, I think we have a horribly toxic political culture that is led by people with bad intentions on both ends of the political spectrum. There’s more of that going on on the right, because the major mainstream news media, often called the “legacy“ media, controlled the conversation for so long. The Internet unleashed new voices and greater freedom to speak, which has been widely abused. It has also enabled people to live in bubbles. I think Jeffrey Toobin lives in one of those bubbles, as evidenced by his worldview and nearly everything he writes or says. “We are right and righteous, and those terrible conservatives are a blight upon our society.“ That’s not Toobin speaking , but it’s not an exaggeration or a parody either. I have heard people say that. Anyway, to me this looks like a very depressing time in our history.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #1203
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    After Trump, what? This is an interesting piece by Joel Kotkin, who is one of the centrist Democrats who helped Bill Clinton get elected. He kind of reminds me of Scoop Jackson, for those old enough to remember him.

    https://www.ocregister.com/2018/09/0...cal-socialism/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #1204
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Overall, I think we have a horribly toxic political culture that is led by people with bad intentions on both ends of the political spectrum. There’s more of that going on on the right, because the major mainstream news media, often called the “legacy“ media, controlled the conversation for so long. The Internet unleashed new voices and greater freedom to speak, which has been widely abused. It has also enabled people to live in bubbles. I think Jeffrey Toobin lives in one of those bubbles, as evidenced by his worldview and nearly everything he writes or says. “We are right and righteous, and those terrible conservatives are a blight upon our society.“ That’s not Toobin speaking , but it’s not an exaggeration or a parody either. I have heard people say that. Anyway, to me this looks like a very depressing time in our history.
    I didn't have a ton of time to explain my question yesterday, but I see so much disinformation coming from all sides, that is why I asked the question. I've seen an interesting trend on social media that we typically joke about old people doing, but is now taking place among young people. But many of the young liberal people I am friends with on social media (and by young I'm saying millennials and younger) they like to post false memes and quotes, made up facts and more at a similar pace as the conservative old people doing the same on the other side. Popular ones I see come from 'Occupy Democrats', 'The Other 98%', 'Think Progress' etc.

    While there are many viable criticisms of GWB, I remember at the time many rumors akin to the birther movement about GWB being part of a secret society and that all he did being a concerted effort to overthrow democracy and that 9/11 was staged by them.

    Things are escalating now in the craziness, but I don't see any immunity from this because of a political lean at all. The big change however is we have a president how who promotes these theories and propagates outright lies at a pace that is simply staggering. All politicians are liars, Trump seems to simply be unable to tell the truth no matter what it is. He exhibits all the behavior of a compulsive liar.

    The internet was supposed to enlighten and inform us all, just the opposite seems to have happened. It is easy to prey on our laziness and reluctance to check the facts.

  5. #1205
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I didn't have a ton of time to explain my question yesterday, but I see so much disinformation coming from all sides, that is why I asked the question. I've seen an interesting trend on social media that we typically joke about old people doing, but is now taking place among young people. But many of the young liberal people I am friends with on social media (and by young I'm saying millennials and younger) they like to post false memes and quotes, made up facts and more at a similar pace as the conservative old people doing the same on the other side. Popular ones I see come from 'Occupy Democrats', 'The Other 98%', 'Think Progress' etc.

    While there are many viable criticisms of GWB, I remember at the time many rumors akin to the birther movement about GWB being part of a secret society and that all he did being a concerted effort to overthrow democracy and that 9/11 was staged by them.

    Things are escalating now in the craziness, but I don't see any immunity from this because of a political lean at all. The big change however is we have a president how who promotes these theories and propagates outright lies at a pace that is simply staggering. All politicians are liars, Trump seems to simply be unable to tell the truth no matter what it is. He exhibits all the behavior of a compulsive liar.

    The internet was supposed to enlighten and inform us all, just the opposite seems to have happened. It is easy to prey on our laziness and reluctance to check the facts.
    G Dub was a member of a secret society that is out for global control: the Yale Skull and Bones society. Of course, Daddy, HW, was a member of the Trilateralist Commission, which seeks to create a global new order and do away with nation states.

    I don't think these theories started with the left.

  6. #1206
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    G Dub was a member of a secret society that is out for global control: the Yale Skull and Bones society. Of course, Daddy, HW, was a member of the Trilateralist Commission, which seeks to create a global new order and do away with nation states.

    I don't think these theories started with the left.
    They started with Birchers and their ilk. Those people are not conservatives. Just ask William F. Buckley, Jr.:

    Goldwater, the John Birch Society, and Me


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #1207
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Things are escalating now in the craziness, but I don't see any immunity from this because of a political lean at all. The big change however is we have a president how who promotes these theories and propagates outright lies at a pace that is simply staggering. All politicians are liars, Trump seems to simply be unable to tell the truth no matter what it is. He exhibits all the behavior of a compulsive liar.

    The internet was supposed to enlighten and inform us all, just the opposite seems to have happened. It is easy to prey on our laziness and reluctance to check the facts.
    Yep.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #1208
    Trump's tweets about Jeff Sessions and the Justice Department's recent indictments of two Republicans is flat out disturbing. Is he really saying that they should do nothing to Republicans until after the election or maybe nothing at all? It isn't clear, but neither is even remotely ethical.

    I get that there are things that conservatives approve of with Trump or are happy about like the SCOTUS nominees, deregulation and tax cuts - fair enough. But it sure feels an awful lot like trading the nation's birthright for a mess of pottage.


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  9. #1209
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Trump's tweets about Jeff Sessions and the Justice Department's recent indictments of two Republicans is flat out disturbing. Is he really saying that they should do nothing to Republicans until after the election or maybe nothing at all? It isn't clear, but neither is even remotely ethical.

    I get that there are things that conservatives approve of with Trump or are happy about like the SCOTUS nominees, deregulation and tax cuts - fair enough. But it sure feels an awful lot like trading the nation's birthright for a mess of pottage.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    If Trump resigned today and Pence took his place, I'd breathe a huge sigh of relief and would be a happy guy. Whatever else anyone might say about him, Pence is a decent man and would pursue the policies people voted for in the election. Then we could talk about policies instead of personalities. (Although the left would still make Pence out to be a horrible person who will inflict evil on the nation and wants to make "The Handmaid's Tale" a reality. That's what they do.)

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #1210
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    …...like the SCOTUS nominees.....


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    The Kavanaugh hearings will be a cluster beyond all belief -- it shouldn't, as he's eminently qualified, but, that's where we're at in this country. The day Trump won the Presidency is the day all hell broke loose.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  11. #1211
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    IWhatever else anyone might say about him, Pence is a decent man and would pursue the policies people voted for in the election.
    Or, at a minimum, at least he's a regular politician. He would at least play games like a normal president without throwing poorly constructed insults out at every person he meets.

  12. #1212
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Or, at a minimum, at least he's a regular politician. He would at least play games like a normal president without throwing poorly constructed insults out at every person he meets.
    That too. It's sort of included in the "decent man" part.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 09-04-2018 at 10:14 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  13. #1213
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    The Kavanaugh hearings will be a cluster beyond all belief -- it shouldn't, as he's eminently qualified, but, that's where we're at in this country. The day Trump won the Presidency is the day all hell broke loose.
    The Dems on the committee have already disrupted the hearing, about 5 minutes in. People are saying this is unprecedented. Doesn't bother me -- Dems just doing their job and making their base feel better.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #1214
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #1215
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  16. #1216
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    If Trump resigned today and Pence took his place, I'd breathe a huge sigh of relief and would be a happy guy. Whatever else anyone might say about him, Pence is a decent man and would pursue the policies people voted for in the election. Then we could talk about policies instead of personalities. (Although the left would still make Pence out to be a horrible person who will inflict evil on the nation and wants to make "The Handmaid's Tale" a reality. That's what they do.)
    I've heard many people say they are more fearful of Pence than then are of Trump, so that narrative has already begun. Policy aside, I think people have forgotten about the necessity of stability and normalization that needs to come from the White House. At this point, minus the various celebrities now who are suggesting they'd throw their hats in the ring, just about any candidate would be a better choice than Trump for that reason.

    The article about Bob Woodward's upcoming book in the WaPo right now, if even 10% true is disturbing.

  17. #1217
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I've heard many people say they are more fearful of Pence than then are of Trump, so that narrative has already begun. Policy aside, I think people have forgotten about the necessity of stability and normalization that needs to come from the White House. At this point, minus the various celebrities now who are suggesting they'd throw their hats in the ring, just about any candidate would be a better choice than Trump for that reason.

    The article about Bob Woodward's upcoming book in the WaPo right now, if even 10% true is disturbing.
    I've heard many say the same thing about Pence - "he'd be worse than Trump!". I disagree. Pence has the charisma of a cardboard box, and he'd suffer worse guilt-by-association than Gerald Ford.

    The video showing Pence mimicking every move by Trump in a meeting - moving his water bottle when Trump moved his, etc - is a little creepy, but like how he was befuddled by the reaction in Indiana to their freedom of religion bill being viewed as open season for discrimination, Pence isn't terribly bright.

    Here's some Pence trivia nobody could have guessed: he went to college with and was a good friend of Woody Harrelson's (who agrees they've gone on separate paths from being in the same Christian college).

    Woodward's book is just the last in a long line reminding us we're living in a surreal presidential era.

  18. #1218
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    ... Pence isn't terribly bright...
    Isn't that a common statement about a lot of VPs? From Gerald Ford to Joe Biden to Dan Quayle?

  19. #1219
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Isn't that a common statement about a lot of VPs? From Gerald Ford to Joe Biden to Dan Quayle?
    Truth. One school of thought is the VP's primary responsibility is to not upstage the Prez. In this case they had to search far & wide for the right man. Pence reminds me of the Steve Carrell character on "Anchorman", the TV weatherman.

    Flying back to Indianapolis to an NFL game, telling the motorcade "this won't take long", then walking out in faux disgust after a couple of players protest, just because the man Mattis describes as having a "sixth graders understanding" of our Constitution and form of government told you to?

    Going back to Woodward's book and everything we've learned that it builds upon, I have new respect and appreciation for Mattis, McMaster and even Tillerson and Kelly. McCain-like service to the nation. The Founders never imagined anything like this.

  20. #1220
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Pence isn't terribly bright.
    Democrats seem to decide pretty easily on the intelligence of the Republicans they oppose. How do you guys form these opinions? Pence did manage to get a B.A. from Hanover College B.A., and a law degree from Indiana, so he must have fooled a lot of people.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 09-04-2018 at 10:17 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  21. #1221
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Democrats seem to decide pretty easily on the intelligence of the Republicans they oppose. How do you guys form these opinions? Pence did manage to get a B.A. from Hanover College B.A., and a law degree from Indiana, so he must have fooled a lot of people.
    G Dub went to Yale. Do you think that makes him one of the brightest?
    I've learned over the years that attendance at a particular school or attending something like law school isn't a guarantee of your brilliance. On the other hand, brilliance gets you only so far. Hard work counts for a lot.

  22. #1222
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    As President, you don't want a VP who looks like they could do the job better than you. Someone with influence may decide to make that happen.

  23. #1223
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    G Dub went to Yale. Do you think that makes him one of the brightest?
    I've learned over the years that attendance at a particular school or attending something like law school isn't a guarantee of your brilliance. On the other hand, brilliance gets you only so far. Hard work counts for a lot.
    Like you and like Pence, I went to a regional state law school. I didn’t meet anyone stupid during the whole three years I was there. I know that’s anecdotal, but that is my experience. I have the same opinion about anyone who obtains an advanced degree of any kind. They might not be brilliant, but I’d be very suspicious of suggesting, without even knowing them, that they are not intelligent. I tend to disagree profoundly with efforts to evaluate someone‘s intelligence from afar.

    By the way, GW Bush, who is a painfully challenged public speaker and often sounded dumb, got better grades at Yale than John Kerry, who sounds articulate. Still, I’m not going to judge either one‘s intelligence. I do think it is interesting that among the intelligentsia, generally Republicans are portrayed as dummies, while Democrats are portrayed as really smart.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  24. #1224
    Five-O Diehard Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Like you and like Pence, I went to a regional state law school. I didn’t meet anyone stupid during the whole three years I was there. I know that’s anecdotal, but that is my experience. I have the same opinion about anyone who obtains an advanced degree of any kind. They might not be brilliant, but I’d be very suspicious of suggesting, without even knowing them, that they are not intelligent. I tend to disagree profoundly with efforts to evaluate someone‘s intelligence from afar.

    By the way, GW Bush, who is a painfully challenged public speaker and often sounded dumb, got better grades at Yale than John Kerry, who sounds articulate. Still, I’m not going to judge either one‘s intelligence. I do think it is interesting that among the intelligentsia, generally Republicans are portrayed as dummies, while Democrats are portrayed as really smart.
    Intelligence isn’t all about book work and tests LA

    I’ve met all kinds of people who are book smart, but are completely inept when it comes to common sense and street smarts.

    There’s far more to being intelligent than getting a fancy piece of paper


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  25. #1225
    So Trump staffers are lining up to deny the content of Woodward's book "Fear" and quote attributed to them. But if what his book says is really true and we have people there doing their best to protect the country from Trump, don't they pretty much have to lie about it?

    What will history reveal when this period is in our rear view mirror I wonder?

    It did garner a very loud laugh early this morning that scared my wife when Trump said Woodward had credibility issues.


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  26. #1226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    So Trump staffers are lining up to deny the content of Woodward's book "Fear" and quote attributed to them. But if what his book says is really true and we have people there doing their best to protect the country from Trump, don't they pretty much have to lie about it?
    That has a nice ring to it, but I doubt it is true.

    The cynic in me says they are trying to discredit the book because they're worried someone else in the office said something nasty about them.

  27. #1227
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Intelligence isn’t all about book work and tests LA

    I’ve met all kinds of people who are book smart, but are completely inept when it comes to common sense and street smarts.

    There’s far more to being intelligent than getting a fancy piece of paper
    True. Some of the smartest people I know never went to college, or did not complete college. A degree is just a credential. But my point is that when we hear a comment about someone's intelligence, from someone who doesn't know that person, we have to take into account certain indicators. A degree is one of those. On its face, it is evidence of a person's commitment, hard work, and ability to meet academic standards (e.g., pass tests, persist in a challenging environment, etc.). So when Ma'ake says Pence "isn't terribly bright," I look for evidence of that, or evidence to the contrary. I don't know of any evidence that Pence is not bright, but there are some objective indicators that he's at least academically capable.

    I think I've beaten this to death. I am just tired of the "Republicans are dumb, Democrats are smart" theme.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  28. #1228
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I think I've beaten this to death. I am just tired of the "Republicans are dumb, Democrats are smart" theme.
    Understanding that I'm painting with a broad brush here, I do think there is a difference in the way your "generic" Republican and your "generic" Democrat think about things. I think Trump is at the extreme end of how a lot of MAGA types evaluate a situation and come to a decision. A lot of people describe this method as "using your gut" to make a decision. It isn't necessarily a bad thing. There are many very good reasons we make decisions in that manner. The problem is if you start relying on that method too much, you end up excluding a lot of useful information for the sake of simplicity.

    I read this book once: Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert Cialdini. It is an interesting read. One thing he pointed out really resonated with me.

    When we have to make a decision about a situation, we rely on a lot of contextual cues and our own experience to help short cut the decision making process. When there is a knock at our door and we open it and there is a stranger standing there, we have to make an immediate decision as to threat level. The first and most obvious clue is the presence of a weapon. But beyond that, there are more subtle cues we take. For example, if they are young, wearing a white shirt and tie, and have a missionary tag on, my experience in my neighborhood is that this happens on a fairly regular basis and can make a quick judgement as to the safety of the situation. My reaction may be completely different if I hadn't had those experiences, or if my previous experiences with them were somehow very negative. Given a different history and context (am I growing up in Liberia?), I could make a every different conclusion.

    We have to make these snap judgements based on context clues and experience otherwise our minds would be paralyzed as we tried to decide if every single interaction we had in the world was "safe" or not. For example, I can grab my mouse right now and know it won't burn me, whereas if I put it on a burner on the stove, I may get burned. Imagine if I had to think about this for every item I ever touched in the world every single time I went to touch it. It would be exhausting.

    He calls this the "click-whirr" effect. We use these experiences and clues to help us short cut the decision making process. Call it making a decision "with your gut" or pejoratively "judging a book by it's cover", they're all about making a determination based on our past experiences and context clues. At the extreme, I call it "lazy thinking". People don't want to go through the mental calculations it takes to explore complex situations about which they know nothing about and don't want to learn.

    When I have discussions with the more aggressive MAGA types who some may consider "dumb", I don't think they're being dumb in a traditional sense. I think this is the 30% of the American population who blindly support Trump because he epitomizes the way they think. They don't want to spend the time to explore the nuance and variations in every situation because it is too exhausting. "People from MS-13 come here and murder people, they come from Mexico, build a wall. Yes I know good immigrants come from Mexico too, but its hard to figure out who is good and who is bad, so keep them all out."

    Now, to narrow my broad paintbrush, I would say that these types of thinkers do tend to be in the less educated, less financially well off portion of our communities. I don't see many well heeled Republicans who act and think like this. They are a different breed who seem to be more individualistic. The "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" hard workers.

    I think there's a reason college educated people tend to lean Democrat more than Republican, and it doesn't have anything to do with collegiate brain washing. I feel like it has more to do with developing the ability and desire to think more deeply about problems. Many people who never go to college develop those skills.

  29. #1229
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    I think there's a reason college educated people tend to lean Democrat more than Republican, and it doesn't have anything to do with collegiate brain washing. I feel like it has more to do with developing the ability and desire to think more deeply about problems.
    I think there's much more to it than just saying democrats have a greater desire to think deeply about problems. There are plenty of democrats who don't think deeply about anything, and there are plenty of party platform positions and actions that that indicate a lack of deep thinking. The mere act of belonging to a political party indicates an acceptance of groupthink, which is counter to the idea of deep thinking.

  30. #1230
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I think there's much more to it than just saying democrats have a greater desire to think deeply about problems. There are plenty of democrats who don't think deeply about anything, and there are plenty of party platform positions and actions that that indicate a lack of deep thinking. The mere act of belonging to a political party indicates an acceptance of groupthink, which is counter to the idea of deep thinking.

    I was surprised to read a couple of weeks ago that 44% of all voters in 2016 were white voters w/o a college degree. I had no idea it is that high; maybe because more hs students here go to college.

    Trump's support among whites w/o a college degree is something like 60-40 or 65-35. His support among whites with a college degree is something like 30-70. (IIRC; could be off in %, but is generally correct).
    Last edited by concerned; 09-05-2018 at 11:30 AM.

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