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Thread: Life in the Trump Era, Part 2

  1. #1231
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I think there's much more to it than just saying democrats have a greater desire to think deeply about problems. There are plenty of democrats who don't think deeply about anything, and there are plenty of party platform positions and actions that that indicate a lack of deep thinking. The mere act of belonging to a political party indicates an acceptance of groupthink, which is counter to the idea of deep thinking.
    Not all Democrats are college graduates either.

  2. #1232
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    I was surprised to read a couple of weeks ago that 44% of all voters in 2016 were white voters w/o a college degree. I had no idea it is that high; maybe because more hs students here go to college.

    Trump's support among whites w/o a college degree is something like 60-40 or 65-35. His support among whites with a college degree is something like 30-70. (IIRC; could be off in %, but is generally correct).
    Gallup.

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/205832/...-approval.aspx

    Screenshot from 2018-09-05 11-38-12.png

    Education is a factor in ratings of Trump only among whites -- nonwhites' approval ratings are identical regardless of educational attainment. But there is nearly a 20-point difference in approval between white college graduates (41%) and white college nongraduates (60%).

  3. #1233
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    That has a nice ring to it, but I doubt it is true.

    The cynic in me says they are trying to discredit the book because they're worried someone else in the office said something nasty about them.
    There is likely an element of that old fraternity hazing ritual where they would blindfold all of the pledges, stand them in a circle and command them to pee on their neighbor. Of course any normal human resists, so then they would just squirt some warm water on one of them and next thing you know they are all pissing on each other.


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  4. #1234
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Smart people oppose Trump, dumb people support him. Novel idea!

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  5. #1235
    To state the obvious, this is unprecedented and astonishing.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/o...gtype=Homepage

  6. #1236
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Like you and like Pence, I went to a regional state law school. I didn’t meet anyone stupid during the whole three years I was there. I know that’s anecdotal, but that is my experience. I have the same opinion about anyone who obtains an advanced degree of any kind. They might not be brilliant, but I’d be very suspicious of suggesting, without even knowing them, that they are not intelligent. I tend to disagree profoundly with efforts to evaluate someone‘s intelligence from afar.

    By the way, GW Bush, who is a painfully challenged public speaker and often sounded dumb, got better grades at Yale than John Kerry, who sounds articulate. Still, I’m not going to judge either one‘s intelligence. I do think it is interesting that among the intelligentsia, generally Republicans are portrayed as dummies, while Democrats are portrayed as really smart.
    If you understood what was being said you'd realise that the intelligence of many Democrats is questioned.

  7. #1237
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    To state the obvious, this is unprecedented and astonishing.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/o...gtype=Homepage
    The Twitter-verse is all a-twitter about the use of the word "Lodestar". Pence has used it many times in speeches.

    Screenshot from 2018-09-05 16-04-36.png

    Maybe Pence's speechwriter?

    My guess is that it is a group of people acting as one. Maybe the op-ed was written by Pence's writer.

  8. #1238
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    David Frum is not amused with the NYT Resistance op-ed.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...ent=edit-promo

  9. #1239
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    David Frum is not amused with the NYT Resistance op-ed.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...ent=edit-promo

    The big question is why the senior official felt compelled to write an Op-Ed about it now instead of continuing to carry out the supposed plan? If things were nuts before, it is going to go to a whole new level with Trump being absolutely paranoid about everyone serving around him. Further he is going to put in checks so that his presidency can't be thwarted, right?

    Unless his administration knows that he is going down shortly and they are beginning to put their stakes in the ground to survive the fallout and say, "Look, I was doing what I thought was best for our country, I was not a Trump lackey."

    I just don't even know how to process this whole thing. Unprecedented times.

    And really it could be just about anyone from Pence down to Jared Kushner.

    But now that I've typed this out and thought about it for a minute, I'm putting my money on Jeff Sessions. He has a motive - he has been betrayed by the president in a public and humiliating way - and he would be at the top to be espousing conservative ideals and believing he is protecting the republic.
    Last edited by Rocker Ute; 09-05-2018 at 05:00 PM.

  10. #1240

  11. #1241
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Dan coats my guess

    Boring. It's the Chinese, posing as a white house official.

  12. #1242
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Boring. It's the Chinese, posing as a white house official.
    No it is a White House insider posing as a Chinese official posing as a White House insider

  13. #1243
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    No it is a White House insider posing as a Chinese official posing as a White House insider
    I'm calling my shot right now - it's Barron.

  14. #1244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    The big question is why the senior official felt compelled to write an Op-Ed about it now instead of continuing to carry out the supposed plan?
    .
    Now that you mention it, the timing is really odd.



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  15. #1245
    Remember when we were exploring the 25th Amendment as a possibility?

    Apparently, amazingly, so were senior members of the Trump Administration. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...-consideration

    EDIT: I wonder if this "internal resistance" effort is a precursor?

    - Tacit signal to discouraged Republican voters that insiders are aware of the situation and something will change after the elections?

    - Trial balloon on an actual invocation of the 25th Amendment?

    - Republicans wanting to get Kavanaugh seated ASAFP, then invoke the 25th *before* the election to avoid a bloodbath in the election?

    Crazy times.
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 09-05-2018 at 07:28 PM.

  16. #1246
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    The big question is why the senior official felt compelled to write an Op-Ed about it now instead of continuing to carry out the supposed plan? If things were nuts before, it is going to go to a whole new level with Trump being absolutely paranoid about everyone serving around him. Further he is going to put in checks so that his presidency can't be thwarted, right?
    Maybe to convince wavering Repubs and independents that all is not lost--they don't have to vote blue wave or put a check on Trump because adults are in the room. Or maybe because he is close to McCain (quoting him) and is pissed off at the way Trump treated McCain.????

  17. #1247
    My wife just read it, and said she thinks it is someone trying to appease their conscience because of trump's treatment of McCain. She thinks more than one person wrote it and agreed to go public-'maybe Kelly, Coats and Mattis together.

  18. #1248
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    My wife just read it, and said she thinks it is someone trying to appease their conscience because of trump's treatment of McCain. She thinks more than one person wrote it and agreed to go public-'maybe Kelly, Coats and Mattis together.
    Now THAT would be fascinating.

    My official theory is that the rats are jumping off a swiftly sinking ship.


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  19. #1249
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Now THAT would be fascinating.

    My official theory is that the rats are jumping off a swiftly sinking ship.


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    I hope and believe that I would say this even if a Democrat were in the White House. Trump is a terrible person, but whoever wrote that op-ed is an abject coward.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #1250
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I hope and believe that I would say this even if a Democrat were in the White House. Trump is a terrible person, but whoever wrote that op-ed is an abject coward.
    It is one of the most fascinating and disturbing things I can think of in American political history. In a way it kind of reminds me of the early years of our country when the Vice President wasn't selected by the President but was the runner up in the Presidential election. Thomas Jefferson was awful and in opposition to John Adams almost every step of the way and while he was subverting Adams along the way at least he had the courage to oppose him to his face.

    So my thoughts swing from (assuming this is all accurate and happening) being glad there are some adults in the room steadying the country's leadership to horrified that unelected individuals would have the hubris to think they had the right to steer and deceive the duly elected president. What stops corrupt people (assuming these senior official are not) from doing the same in the future?

    But the problem is, from this account, to the Woodward book to the previous two books that all say the same thing is the continued unhinged behavior the President displays on his own that confirms it is all true. Go back and read his tweets and pretend you are reading the tweets of that nutty uncle that can't seem to keep a job. You can't tell the difference.

    Despite all of that, I can't say I disagree with you LA. Regardless, is it the people's responsibility to buttress the nation against a White House run by a mad man and being steered by a committee of unelected individuals calling themselves "the resistance" by putting control of Congress in the hands of the opposition party who can use the Constitution to hopefully keep things in check? Can the Democrats in Congress who are bereft of leadership themselves actually do it? Sorry but Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer etc doesn't exactly fill me with confidence either.


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  21. #1251
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I hope and believe that I would say this even if a Democrat were in the White House. Trump is a terrible person, but whoever wrote that op-ed is an abject coward.
    The mosaic coming together is of mainstream Republicans coming to serve in the Trump Administration, only to find he's not really a Republican, has no interest to learn about the complexities of issues or even the separation of powers in the Constitution, is dangerously erratic and puts the nation at risk.

    (One of the earliest examples of "resistance" was the AF General describing how they're "clarifying" when an "illegal" nuclear strike order can be "resisted". Think of the background that led to that public admission.)

    Boiling down the possible candidates, use of the term "lodestar" seems to suggest Pence, but I think it's Dan Coats, who's also from Indiana (where that term is apparently more widely used), and was moved to this extraordinary action by reflecting on his good friend McCain's life of sacrifice and putting the nation before own interests. At age 75, what does Coats want to leave behind for his progeny? Knowledge that he was part of all this? Or that he took action to mitigate the insanity?

    The depth and breadth of issues go far beyond a table-pounder bully CEO, undermined by disgruntled insiders.

    My sense is Coats will come out, either be fired or resign, and the chorus of alarming accounts will wear on Republicans who've held their noses to get SCOTUS picks, regulation rollbacks and tax cuts. At some point they better veer away from Trump, or risk a nation where more & more people mimic the leader, with disastrous results.
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 09-06-2018 at 07:33 AM.

  22. #1252
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I hope and believe that I would say this even if a Democrat were in the White House. Trump is a terrible person, but whoever wrote that op-ed is an abject coward.
    Maybe - probably - but calling someone cowardly from afar isn't completely different from calling someone dumb from afar.

    In addition to cowardice, I'd like to accuse the author of anonymous grandstanding. There are a few eye roll moments in that letter.

    The point is moot, of course, since the letter was written by a machine learning algorithm in Beijing.

  23. #1253
    Five-O Diehard Ute's Avatar
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    And lest we forget, this thread is exactly what most in this thread supposedly don’t like.

    It’s all either Democrat or Republican.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The two party system is THE problem with politics. It has to be changed




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  24. #1254
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Maybe - probably - but calling someone cowardly from afar isn't completely different from calling someone dumb from afar.

    In addition to cowardice, I'd like to accuse the author of anonymous grandstanding. There are a few eye roll moments in that letter.

    The point is moot, of course, since the letter was written by a machine learning algorithm in Beijing.
    I suppose it would more accurate to say that submitting that editorial to the New York Times was a cowardly act. I think that is objectively and undeniably true. Everything that was said in the piece is deeply disturbing, but if it is true, and the writer believes it is true, why not just resign, hold a press conference, publish the editorial with your name over it, or some combination of those steps? After all, that person would be an absolute hero to the resistance, would probably have a book deal, and would be sought after by all the major TV networks for interviews.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #1255
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    The point is moot, of course, since the letter was written by a machine learning algorithm in Beijing.
    Using blockchain of course.

  26. #1256
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I suppose it would more accurate to say that submitting that editorial to the New York Times was a cowardly act. I think that is objectively and undeniably true. Everything that was said in the piece is deeply disturbing, but if it is true, and the writer believes it is true, why not just resign, hold a press conference, publish the editorial with your name over it, or some combination of those steps? After all, that person would be an absolute hero to the resistance, would probably have a book deal, and would be sought after by all the major TV networks for interviews.
    Playing devils advocate for a moment (which doesn't change that the op-ed really is cowardly) but perhaps this person hasn't done any of those things because they really believe what they are doing is a sacrifice and to protect the country. If your motive is to keep the unhinged president in check for love of country that is why you wouldn't resign and get the book deal.

    Truthfully I think despite this letter there really are a number of senior officials doing just that right now, no matter how you feel about the president that can't be a very enjoyable job. Kelly, Mattis and others probably at one level or another fit that bill, but also likely don't view themselves as "the resistance."


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  27. #1257
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    I haven't seen much reported about this. It definitely is an interesting exchange.

    https://abovethelaw.com/2018/09/and-...s-on-to-day-3/


  28. #1258
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I suppose it would more accurate to say that submitting that editorial to the New York Times was a cowardly act. I think that is objectively and undeniably true. Everything that was said in the piece is deeply disturbing, but if it is true, and the writer believes it is true, why not just resign, hold a press conference, publish the editorial with your name over it, or some combination of those steps?
    Yeah, this is probably true. Just for kicks, here are some possible explanations that don't involve (as much?) cowardice:

    Maybe there have been threats made to themselves or loved ones. After all, their boss is powerful, amoral, and unstable, and he's taken to using mafia-like language recently.

    Maybe they are trying to be calculating instead of cowardly. They know they will eventually be revealed, and they think this approach will make them look better than coming out publicly. They are part of the Trump team, so gauging the public may not be their strong suit.

    Maybe they are just dumb and never thought of doing it any other way. After all, this cabinet is not known for thoughtfulness.

    Maybe they relish the idea of being the focus of this type of speculation. They are narcissistic, and everyone is now talking about them. Later, they will become famous by being the anonymous letter writer instead of just another staffer who resigns.

    Maybe they think they are heroes. They figure if they resign, no one will be there to control the erratic president. Their country needs them, and they just want to reassure us that someone dedicated to true conservative principles has got this.

  29. #1259
    Five-O Diehard Ute's Avatar
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    And....remember this is the guy they’re dealing with at the top. Kim Jong Un is my go to character reference too.




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  30. #1260
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Yeah, this is probably true. Just for kicks, here are some possible explanations that don't involve (as much?) cowardice:

    Maybe there have been threats made to themselves or loved ones. After all, their boss is powerful, amoral, and unstable, and he's taken to using mafia-like language recently.

    Maybe they are trying to be calculating instead of cowardly. They know they will eventually be revealed, and they think this approach will make them look better than coming out publicly. They are part of the Trump team, so gauging the public may not be their strong suit.

    Maybe they are just dumb and never thought of doing it any other way. After all, this cabinet is not known for thoughtfulness.

    Maybe they relish the idea of being the focus of this type of speculation. They are narcissistic, and everyone is now talking about them. Later, they will become famous by being the anonymous letter writer instead of just another staffer who resigns.

    Maybe they think they are heroes. They figure if they resign, no one will be there to control the erratic president. Their country needs them, and they just want to reassure us that someone dedicated to true conservative principles has got this.
    I take back all of my theories and now submit this one: The senior official who wrote the op-ed is John Barron, long time PR person for the president. But here is the twist, President Trump suffers from an undiagnosed multiple-personality disorder, and John Barron is one of his personalities.

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