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Thread: Roy Moore and Alabama

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    I agree with the article, it was a crappy apology
    I think criticizing apologies is something of a new American pastime. I'm glad the people close to me accept my apologies without picking them apart.

  2. #32
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I think criticizing apologies is something of a new American pastime. I'm glad the people close to me accept my apologies without picking them apart.
    Could you post some of them here so we can critique them for you? I think you’d find the input quite valuable.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Could you post some of them here so we can critique them for you? I think you’d find the input quite valuable.
    I'm sorry, they aren't very good.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Yeah it was one of those "I'm not sorry, I'm only sorry I got caught" apologies. Lame & unbelievable.

    I hope every single creep in politics gets called out, and, if warranted, charged with crimes. Honestly, I don't understand how anyone with a wife or daughters (or a mother they love and admire) could vote for anyone that has documented history of sexual harassment -- including Clinton (at minimum the second election), Trump in 2016, and now Moore and Franken. I'm sure many others will follow. Hillary falls under this umbrella as well as she enabled Bill's behavior, and, ruthlessly went after anyone who dared to threaten Bill's presidential ambitions. Absolutely no integrity at all.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Was it really that awful? I mean, he apologized. I'm not sure I buy the idea that someone's initial reaction to something is a window into their soul.

    Anyway, he apologized. Not sure he will be forgiven. Like any politician, he's completely replaceable.
    Chris Cillizza has become a drama queen on CNN. His favorite pastime now is writing the breakdowns of Trump’s tweets or things like Al Franken’s apology. Usually there are about 20 points he breaks down, 2-5 of them are relevant, and the rest are pretty infantile.

    Unfortunately I fall for the clickbait each time when the headline is, “Things you need to understand about Trump’s Asian nation visits.” Then it is this crap.

    All that being said, the apology sounds a lot like The Onion’s headline that said something like, “Al Franken vows to make up for sexual harassment during next 4 Senate terms.”


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  6. #36
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    From Politico:

    Florida Democratic Party chair apologizes after 6 women complain of 'demeaning' behavior



    TALLAHASSEE — Six former Florida Democratic Party staffers and consultants say that current party Chairman Stephen Bittel has created an unprofessional workplace environment for women that includes persistent inappropriate comments, leering at young women and even inviting them on his private jet.

    The women, who were reached independently by POLITICO and insisted on anonymity out of fear for their jobs, said Bittel never inappropriately touched or threatened them. But he made them feel so uneasy that they didn’t want to be alone with him due to his body language, suggestive remarks and even the breast-shaped stress squeeze-ball he has been known to keep on his desk.


    Depending on the circumstance and the person discussing Bittel, they said he would make references about women cooking dinner, showing their breasts, their age, whether they wanted to ride on his plane, come to his hotel room or if they thought he was attractive.


    “There was a lot of boob stuff in his office,” said a woman who was a fundraiser years ago and had to interact with him.
    I am sure he'll be resigning soon. Won't he? After all, Democrats don't tolerate such things.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #37
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Very interesting short piece on this.

    What to Ask When Decades-Old Harassment Surfaces

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...sment-surfaces

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Very interesting short piece on this.

    What to Ask When Decades-Old Harassment Surfaces

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...sment-surfaces
    As a 61 year old man who has some dirty jokes, inappropriate comments and inappropriate actions in my past, I agree with the sentiments expressed by the author.

  9. #39
    The generation of us who were raised on Benny Hill reruns probably were culturalized to believe that anything we could get away with was good, clean fun. And anything over the line earned a slap. Most of us stayed a safe distance away from that line in most situations, but of course while dating things sometimes were more confusing and fluid.

    That Al Franken picture is a good example of the damaging effects of that cultural 'norm'. He is obviously not touching her, but is only 'honking' the air over her chest. And she is wearing a thick Kevlar and bulletproof plastic flak jacket, so he couldn't touch her directly anyhow.

    But that is irrelevant, because she still felt violated. The emotional and psychological effect of the act is not lessened in any manner than if he had actually touched her. It is still a violation, and always has been. The difference now is that women are more empowered to actually stand up and say NO, and actually be allowed to articulate the reasons they dislike the situation.

    In the Benny Hill paradigm women are fragile emotional psychological beings who are silly and irrational, but with sexual bodies who should be required to 'give it up' to The Man, because he is The Man and biology demands it.

    But women are more that simply sexual beings, who are slaves to biology. They are complex, sophisticated beings, typically with less physical strength than men but usually with more strength than men in other important areas, who are just sick and tired of the cultural power dynamic that holds them down.

    I think a very good experiment for men to try is this: wear a thin, clingy, synthetic golf shirt without an undershirt on a cool day. Walk around feeling self-conscious of your nipples poking out. Notice how everybody else also sees those nips. Then think what it would feel like to be sexualized by everybody around you, just because they are sizing you up.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I am sure he'll be resigning soon. Won't he? After all, Democrats don't tolerate such things.
    Sarah Huckabee Sanders' response to being asked about Franken's misdeed vs the legion of accusers against the President was "the difference is Franken admitted wrongdoing, where the President has not!"

    Tactical lesson for Democrats: Deny, deny, deny... play the legal game, hire people to find dirt on accusers, turn the tables, and by all means, stay on the attack!

    Of course, these tactics have been used by Democrats before, most notably Bill Clinton. He survived being impeached by deftly playing the cards, after all.

    Meanwhile, selective application of values leads Republicans who might be on the verge of objecting to whatever Trump has done (or soon will do) by parading out some SCOTUS possibilities, and pliant Republicans sit right back down, smiling.
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 11-19-2017 at 04:38 PM.

  11. #41
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Tactical lesson for Democrats: Deny, deny, deny... play the legal game, hire people to find dirt on accusers, turn the tables, and by all means, stay on the attack!
    Hold on for just a doggone minute there, young feller. Isn’t that the technique the Clintons perfected? With the enthusiastic support of the party and the liberal commentariat?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  12. #42
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Maureen Dowd spares no one here, right, left, or Trump.

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/1...dgereport.com/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Hold on for just a doggone minute there, young feller. Isn’t that the technique the Clintons perfected? With the enthusiastic support of the party and the liberal commentariat?
    Lol - didn't I point that out?

    Is the nation better off for those tactics? I would say "no".
    (The same could be said for the overall opinion of lawyers.)

    But the "good of the nation" aspect began its exit, circa Nixon.

  14. #44
    The Alabama race can be reduced to two alternatives:

    * Common decency

    * Southern defiance of what outsiders think Alabamans should do (with some sprinkling in of "it's all about the SCOTUS, folks!")

    Lynyrd Skynyrd gave a preview just over 43 years ago:

    "
    Now Watergate it does not bother me
    Does your conscience bother you?
    "

    In his choice of targets, Trump reveals his preference: Getting into a fight with LaVar Ball (who is just as crazy as Trump) and yesterday going after Marshawn Lynch (who gave the Utes a pep talk a few years ago in Seattle)... but relative silence on Moore.

    Flake is right. Does the Republican party start to reassert its place as a respectable institution in the American political landscape, or will the Trump-Moore hellbeast signal a whipsaw oscillation back toward the Democrats (with no help from the Dem Party) in 2018, as the Cook Report is suggesting.

    Alabama Governor Kay Ivey says she's inclined to believe the women, but the issue of getting another conservative (white nationalist?) appointed to the SCOTUS is too important to *not* vote for Moore.

    "
    Sweet home Alabama, oh, sweet home baby
    Where the skies are so blue and the governor's true
    "

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Maureen Dowd spares no one here, right, left, or Trump.

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/1...dgereport.com/

    Zero tolerance. As an electorate, we must not cast our vote for a known predator/harasser. Clinton, Clinton, Trump, Moore, Franken. They all have to go.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  16. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    Zero tolerance. As an electorate, we must not cast our vote for a known predator/harasser. Clinton, Clinton, Trump, Moore, Franken. They all have to go.
    I can agree with you on that. Vote them all out.

  17. #47
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    My belief is that many Alabama Republicans will vote for Moore. They will see him as the "lesser of two evils", and blame the local establishment for not producing a better Republican candidate.

    Since they rationalize the blame, they won't feel guilty about voting for him.

    Basically, "I wouldn't vote for Moore if there was another Republican candidate to vote for, but since I can't he's my only option."

  18. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    My belief is that many Alabama Republicans will vote for Moore. They will see him as the "lesser of two evils", and blame the local establishment for not producing a better Republican candidate.
    Agree.

    As a very general, indirect dog whistle signal to Republican voters in Alabama, Trump's responded to a sports writer's tweet about the President's dustup with LaVar Ball as being in a general pattern of attacking minority athletes (NFL players, Steph Curry, et al):

    "Make America Great Again!"

    Ie, "hey Alabama voters, remember who I'm battling against, on your behalf. Repay me with a dependable vote in the Senate, and I'll make it worth your while, as together we 'Make America Great Again' ".

    Trump supporters in general also hear "I'm making America Great Again by calling out ungrateful minorities who've gained while you've suffered, you the Real Americans that made this nation great, and who will be elevated again, under my watch".

    For everyone else, the response is a great big "WTH kind of response is *that*? Does he just trot out his campaign slogan when somebody corner's him with uncomfortable truth?"
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 11-24-2017 at 10:26 AM.

  19. #49
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    Project Veritas, the group behind many discredited videos, tried to sting the Washington Post, but got busted instead.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...=.c8d840933b00

    The Post did not publish an article based on her unsubstantiated account. When Post reporters confronted her with inconsistencies in her story and an Internet posting that raised doubts about her motivations, she insisted that she was not working with any organization that targets journalists.

    But on Monday morning, Post reporters saw her walking into the New York offices of Project Veritas, an organization that targets the mainstream news media and left-leaning groups. The organization sets up undercover “stings” that involve using false cover stories and covert video recordings meant to expose what the group says is media bias.

    James O’Keefe, the Project Veritas founder who was convicted of a misdemeanor in 2010 for using a fake identity to enter a federal building during a previous sting, declined to answer questions about the woman outside the organization’s offices on Monday morning shortly after the woman walked inside.

  20. #50
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Good for them.

    Cory Gardner: The NRSC 'Will Never Endorse' Roy Moore

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/cory-g...rticle/2010758

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  21. #51
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Roy Moore and Alabama

    The Senate couldn’t refuse to seat Roy Moore. But it could kick him out.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.e26048ddb0de

    Here’s hoping.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  22. #52
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Judgement day is upon Alabama.

    All you need to know.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...nate-election/

  23. #53
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    The whole interview is a train wreck, but this is priceless.



    https://youtu.be/hqEA03v3OtQ?t=535

  24. #54
    The juxtaposition of Moore claiming God is in charge, but that he still wants a recount, is just delicious.

  25. #55
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    The juxtaposition of Moore claiming God is in charge, but that he still wants a recount, is just delicious.
    God wants a recount. Don't question.

  26. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    God wants a recount. Don't question.
    Yeah. She can’t believe that many people voted for Moore.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  27. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Yeah. She can’t believe that many people voted for Moore.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    God is a black woman, and she is proud of the rest of Alabama right now.

  28. #58
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    This is a good piece:

    Last Night, the New South Defeated the Old South

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...eats-old-south

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  29. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This is a good piece:

    Last Night, the New South Defeated the Old South

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...eats-old-south
    That reminds me: I heard an Alabama resident of the new south on the radio the other day. He said: "At the end of WW II, Atlanta and Brrmingham were the same size. Atlanta built an airport, we went with Bull Connor. The rest is history."
    Last edited by concerned; 12-15-2017 at 11:15 AM.

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