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Thread: The Pervalanche Thread

  1. #31
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I expect Walter Cronkite to be fired retroactively any time now.


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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #32
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I’ll just leave this right here:

    Washington Post: Conservatives Are Right About Sex

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/washin...rticle/2010637


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I expect Walter Cronkite to be fired retroactively any time now.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    This made me laugh.

    I've got some breaking news. There are a lot of men who hit on women they work with.

    However, we are getting to the point of saturation where there are so many reports of alleged harassment that they dilute the pool, so to speak, and the real bad actors (the Weinsteins, Spaceys etc.) are forgotten and/or glossed over. We always do this in America. The pendulum swings and just keeps swinging.

    As a lawyer, my two simple pieces of advice to all men is don't shit where you eat and even though it appears she isn't offended by your comments, years later, she will be very offended.

  4. #34
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    On Matt Lauer:

    “To recap,” Jelani Cobb of the New Yorker tweets, “NBC shut down Ronan Farrow’s Weinstein story, forcing him to pursue it on his own — a story that ultimately helped create a climate where NBC had to sever ties with their franchise player. Definition of a bad look.”

    And speaking of a bad look, “When a news organization fires a hugely prominent figure, it should have case ready to present to public,” Byron York adds. “Don’t throw two anchors on air who don’t know what’s going on. When CBS fired Rose, public knew overwhelming evidence. With NBC and Lauer, public in dark"
    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/282011/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    This made me laugh.

    I've got some breaking news. There are a lot of men who hit on women they work with.

    However, we are getting to the point of saturation where there are so many reports of alleged harassment that they dilute the pool, so to speak, and the real bad actors (the Weinsteins, Spaceys etc.) are forgotten and/or glossed over. We always do this in America. The pendulum swings and just keeps swinging.

    As a lawyer, my two simple pieces of advice to all men is don't shit where you eat and even though it appears she isn't offended by your comments, years later, she will be very offended.
    There's another aspect to all this: *Some* women, *some* times, take being "hit on" as a type of compliment (depending on who it's coming from). I've heard women compare notes on "hit on" interactions in situations where I witnessed it, and the dude was just being friendly, in a completely inert way. Often the underlying tone seems to be "I'm desirable, too!"

    I suspect that being "hit on" often takes on different meaning over the years for different women... the same interaction having different meanings, over time, or within the same month.

    Attitudes about male-female interactions vary widely by culture. Where many of my European colleagues make no assumptions and get along on an equality basis, it seems many east Asian cultures have very strict "rules of engagement", there are a few colleagues who make zero eye contact (seemingly with anyone), kind of like a "virtual burqa".

    I've tried to be an ambassador for American style gender equality, ie, friendly with zero other untoward overtones. It's actually nice to be able to "break through" and just be friends, be equals, as we all have a lot to learn from each other. The rash of stories in the news makes that less likely.
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 11-29-2017 at 01:51 PM.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Garrison Keillor now? Are you kidding me?

  7. #37
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Garrison Keillor. I guess he isn't really above average after all:

    http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...htmlstory.html

    One of my politically liberal female partners says the part of the pervalanche that most outrages here is that guys like Keillor, Rose, Franken, et al., talked the talk of support for women, but obviously didn't walk the walk.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    In the current environment, no eye contact seems like the safe route.
    No, then they will assume you were looking at their chest.

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  9. #39
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    There's another aspect to all this: *Some* women, *some* times, take being "hit on" as a type of compliment (depending on who it's coming from). I've heard women compare notes on "hit on" interactions in situations where I witnessed it, and the dude was just being friendly, in a completely inert way. Often the underlying tone seems to be "I'm desirable, too!"

    I tend to be friendly, and talkative, and have learned *some* women from *some* other cultures can take that as an aggressive interaction.

    I've tied to show how in the US, many guys genuinely respect women, not as sexual objects, but as peers, as colleagues whom have valuable input, with no other agenda involved. (Needless to say, I'm backing off that angle - the marketing on men supporting feminism isn't very good, right now.) Some foreign women walk down the hall with blinders on, no eye contact, their eyes don't deviate from the direct path ahead, essentially no eye movement. Basically a "virtual burqa". I'm extremely cautious not to leer, or anything like that. In the current environment, no eye contact seems like the safe route.

    I suspect that being "hit on" often takes on different meaning over the years for different women... the same interaction having different meanings, over time.
    My wife has been saying the same thing. There is a slippery slope her to be wary of where you can get to a point where a wink could be misconstrued as being over the line.

  10. #40
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    My wife has been saying the same thing. There is a slippery slope her to be wary of where you can get to a point where a wink could be misconstrued as being over the line.
    And if that happens, then it muddies the waters for those who are actually and severely harassed and/or attacked.

  11. #41
    Somehow I think we should have recognized the warning signs with Matt Lauer...http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5a1f0e7caf623/1sJZetG.mp4

    Edit - how do we embed MP4 files?
    Last edited by NorthwestUteFan; 11-29-2017 at 12:51 PM.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Somehow I think we should have recognized the warning signs with Matt Lauer...http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5a1f0e7caf623/1sJZetG.mp4

    Edit - how do we embed MP4 files?
    LOL. Or this.


  13. #43
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Somehow I think we should have recognized the warning signs with Matt Lauer...http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5a1f0e7caf623/1sJZetG.mp4

    Edit - how do we embed MP4 files?
    Matt Lauer has had some strange things going on for a few years now.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/who-i...ivorce-2017-11

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    And if that happens, then it muddies the waters for those who are actually and severely harassed and/or attacked.
    And there's a very predictable backlash to all this: male managers, wary of getting entangled in real/perceived/accused sexual harassment issues (for themselves and subordinates), look for ways to avoid these issues altogether, at hiring time. More of an issue in male dominated fields like IT, granted. (I'm a long way from being that wary, personally, but suffice it to say things don't happen in a vacuum.)

  15. #45
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Last edited by LA Ute; 11-30-2017 at 06:30 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  16. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    Matt Lauer has had some strange things going on for a few years now.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/who-i...ivorce-2017-11
    With his out at the Today Show Anne Curry can be heard saying "Dilly Dilly"
    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

  17. #47
    Is it time for Franken to get the famous contrite politician frowny face and seek unspecified “treatment”?

    While we are worried about the slippery slope the story is that these are powerful people who used their power to conceal their misdeeds and intimidate their victims.

    I work with primarily women, I always try to be respectful to them and I am a married man. Much of that is because I think women should be able to work and not be the object of advances and to feel safe and comfortable while doing their job and it is also because I try to be faithful to my wife in all ways. I want no ambiguity around that fact.

    I don’t have a ton of sympathy for these guys and it is pretty sad if managers are going to not hire women as Ma’ake said might happen just because they can’t be professional.


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  18. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I don’t have a ton of sympathy for these guys and it is pretty sad if managers are going to not hire women as Ma’ake said might happen just because they can’t be professional.
    There are the true abusers / predators, or just spectacular idiots who think it's funny or endearing to pinch female colleagues on the rear end.

    Then there are "some" reverse scenarios, like one I saw on UF.N yesterday (I think, now deleted presumably because litigation may be at hand), where a young woman (apparently) is claiming harassment, with tears, allegedly the third time in three employers within the past 2 years, but the employer has video of her dancing provocatively.

    Everything is relative. I asked one of my Indian female colleagues what she thought of all this. Her response: "India is dealing with the issue of gang rape, so..."

  19. #49
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    There are the true abusers / predators, or just spectacular idiots who think it's funny or endearing to pinch female colleagues on the rear end.
    I must say, I just don't get this. I can't imagine any decent man doing it.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #50
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Roy Moore blames all the allegations on 'dem deviant lib'rls.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/briannasack...JNQ#.wvDAjgBPy

    Speaking from the pulpit at Magnolia Springs Baptist Church in Alabama Wednesday night, Republican Senate candidate Roy Moore accused liberals, gays, bisexuals, transgender people, and socialists of fabricating sexual harassment allegations against him in an effort to keep his conservative Christian views out of Washington.

    The Alabama Republican has repeatedly and emphatically denied accusations that he initiated a sexual encounter with a woman when she was 14 and he was 32, as well as the accounts of several other women who have said Moore inappropriately pursued them when they were teenagers.

    During his sermon-like speech Wednesday night, Moore again dismissed the women's claims as "false and malicious," blaming the raft of stories about his alleged misconduct on a "conspiracy" cooked up by "Democrats pushing a liberal agenda" who have "tried unsuccessfully" to ruin his campaign.

    "When I say they who are 'they?'" he told the clapping congregation. "They’re liberals. They don’t hold conservative values. They are the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender who want to change our culture. They are socialists who want to change our way of life and put man above God and the government is our God. They're the Washington establishment...who don't want to lose their power."
    He is betting on the stupidity of his constituents. Sadly, that seems like a safe bet.

    Orthodox Rabbi Noson Shmuel Leiter said that "Democratic and Republican homosexualists" were trying to tarnish Moore's campaign and that the former Alabama Supreme Court justice was working on behalf of religious leaders by standing up to "homosexualist gay terrorists" and "the LGBT transgender mafia."

    On Wednesday, as Moore continued to defend himself against "false attacks," a person in the crowd broke in and asked about the sexual harassment claims. "The entire time, all the girls are lying?" the man shouted while Moore tried to continue his speech. "Why would they lie?"

    Several other people in the audience then came to Moore's defense. "Does that look like the face of a molester?" one man yelled. "You ought to be ashamed. That's a man's man. You got this judge!"

  21. #51
    Good times.


    https://thefederalist.com/2017/11/30...ote-roy-moore/

    Here is one thing we know and should admit from the start: in his early thirties, Moore had a penchant for dating teenagers. Apparently, this was not an uncommon occurrence during this time. In fact, this practice has a long history and is not without some merit if one wants to raise a large family.



    To have a large family, the wife must start having kids when she is young. The husband needs to be well-established and able to support the family, in which case he will typically need to marry when older. Consider Keith Burgess-Jackson’s (philosophy professor at UT Arlington) account of his own grandparents:
    What’s the big deal about a 32-year-old man courting a 14-year-old girl? My maternal grandmother was 15 years old when she married and 16 years old when she conceived her first child. Her husband was 41 and 42. They had 10 children during the next 20 years. This was normal back then. I’m sure it was normal in Alabama 40 years ago as well. The age of consent in Alabama even today is 16 (with parental consent)…I’m sick to death of people imposing their own moral standards on people of the past, whether it’s Thomas Jefferson, Robert E. Lee, George Armstrong Custer, Martin Luther King Jr, or Roy Moore.
    Times have changed. But, like it or not, four decades ago Moore dated teenagers (even his wife is 14 years younger than he).

  22. #52
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post

    Bring back polygamy!

  23. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    And there's a very predictable backlash to all this: male managers, wary of getting entangled in real/perceived/accused sexual harassment issues (for themselves and subordinates), look for ways to avoid these issues altogether, at hiring time. More of an issue in male dominated fields like IT, granted. (I'm a long way from being that wary, personally, but suffice it to say things don't happen in a vacuum.)
    If you ever get to the point of being "wary" of hiring or working with a female, promise you'll do everyone a favor and leave the workforce. Become a stay at home dad or trophy husband or something. Sheesh

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    ........While we are worried about the slippery slope the story is that these are powerful people who used their power to conceal their misdeeds and intimidate their victims.

    I work with primarily women, I always try to be respectful to them and I am a married man. Much of that is because I think women should be able to work and not be the object of advances and to feel safe and comfortable while doing their job and it is also because I try to be faithful to my wife in all ways. I want no ambiguity around that fact.

    I don’t have a ton of sympathy for these guys and it is pretty sad if managers are going to not hire women as Ma’ake said might happen just because they can’t be professional.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Precisely. It isn't that difficult fellas. Watch your language (both body and verbal), and keep your hands to yourself. And perhaps most importantly, do what Rocker suggests -- conduct yourself in a manner such that you'll have an unimpeachable reputation of being a complete professional at all times. Then, if an unfortunate misguided claim comes up, its unlikely to go anywhere.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    If you ever get to the point of being "wary" of hiring or working with a female, promise you'll do everyone a favor and leave the workforce. Become a stay at home dad or trophy husband or something. Sheesh
    lol. I was pointing out a predictable backlash, not revealing my own bias. But let's go there. I work in IT - a male dominated field - supporting a healthcare research organization (a field disproportionately attracting females, probably a 60/40 split), which is led by an extremely effective, well liked female CEO. My sample size is not big, but of the three CEOs we've had since I've been here (19 years) our current CEO is so head and shoulders above the previous two men in terms of leadership and setting a positive work culture, it's not even comparable.

    LA Ute has a similar experience working in healthcare law.

    I'm sure there are plenty of contra experiences out there, as well, but IMO, women in leadership (who are not trying to out-do the men in terms of aggression and organizational brutality) are very effective, with a style and positive attributes that seem to escape many/most male leaders. (Every context is different, of course.)

  25. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    My sample size is not big,
    That's what your CEO said.

  26. #56

  27. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    That's what your CEO said.
    I'm embarrassed to admit that got a good chuckle.

  28. #58
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The week has lent itself to a feeling of instability. The president has deliberately added to the rancor and tension of his nation’s daily life, lurching in his tweets from mischief to malice to a kind of psychopathology—personal attacks, insinuations, videos from a group labeled racist by the British government. You always want to say he has reached peak crazy, but you know there’s a higher peak on the horizon. What will Everest look like? He has no idea how to be president.

    More men of the media have fallen in the reckoning over sexual abuse, most famously a bright, humorous, ratings-busting veteran anchorman, who reportedly had a switch on his desk that locked his office door so he could molest the women he’d trapped inside. He had no idea how to be a man.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/john-pa...men-1512086999

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  29. #59
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Celebrity Perv Apology Generator

    https://apologygenerator.com


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  30. #60
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    New business model.

    https://apologygenerator.com/


    As a male feminist, I am deeply ashamed (but not “sorry” because that means I’m guilty of something). It was a very long time ago, and of course now I realize my behavior was wrong. In conclusion, I will wait 2-3 years before reappearing in film and TV and just sort of hope you all forget about this.
    While I do not recall the events at the 2009 Golden Globes Party transpiring the same way, I feel tremendously guilty now that the things I did have been made public. I comforted myself by saying that at least I asked before I “honked” her boobs and demanded she watch me shower, and of course now I realize my behavior was wrong. In conclusion, I have chosen to live my life as a gay man so if you say anything bad about me now you’re homophobic.

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