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Thread: School shootings

  1. #151
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    Lauren McCluskey’s parents filed a $56M wrongful death suit against the university today. If Diehard is still hanging around here, I would love to hear some of your thoughts on the whole story, how university police apparently dropped the ball as she had called a more than 20 times asking them to do something, and finally, the university’s utter lack of responsibility in the months following.

    I realize that this only one side of the story so any insight for the other side would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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    I can't shake the feeling that if this goes to trial both sides will come out not looking great.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #152
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    There's no real category here for this but I just learned that McKenzie Lueck was murdered -- horribly, it appears. She was a friend of my daughter's and this has left us all heartsick.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #153
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    School shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    There's no real category here for this but I just learned that McKenzie Lueck was murdered -- horribly, it appears. She was a friend of my daughter's and this has left us all heartsick.
    It looks like some very good police work was done here, although everything happened too quickly for anyone to save the girl. It’s impressive how quickly they apprehended this guy. Nice work, SLPD.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 06-28-2019 at 01:16 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I can't shake the feeling that if this goes to trial both sides will come out not looking great.
    Nobody wins in these types of lawsuits except the attorney who will get 33-45% of whatever settlement occurs. McCluskeys have decided to fight this battle in the public arena. It will be interesting to see how the U responds now that there is a legal proceeding. Will they continue their relative silence or will they be more aggressive in making public whatever their story is?

    What is the current status of governmental immunity? At one time there was a cap of about $250,000 in Utah.

    I am curious to see Lauren's phone records, how many phone calls and texts she made home about these events and the response of the parents. I would also like to see what she texted to friends during this same period.

  5. #155
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    There's no real category here for this but I just learned that McKenzie Lueck was murdered -- horribly, it appears. She was a friend of my daughter's and this has left us all heartsick.
    Just horrific. I feel so bad for her friends and family.

  6. #156
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    She was in my daughter’s sorority, in her pledge class. Everyone loved her.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    Nobody wins in these types of lawsuits except the kattorney who will get 33-45% of whatever settlement occurs. McCluskeys have decided to fight this battle in the public arena. It will be interesting to see how the U responds now that there is a legal proceeding. Will they continue their relative silence or will they be more aggressive in making public whatever their story is?

    What is the current status of governmental immunity? At one time there was a cap of about $250,000 in Utah.

    I am curious to see Lauren's phone records, how many phone calls and texts she made home about these events and the response of the parents. I would also like to see what she texted to friends during this same period.
    I assume the U's focus will be PR, and the matter will settle relatively quickly.

  8. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    It looks like some very good police work was done here, although everything happened too quickly for anyone to save the girl. It’s impressive how quickly they apprehended this guy. Nice work, SLPD.
    A lot of people worked a lot of long hours, the work was impressive all around.


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  9. #159
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    A lot of people worked a lot of long hours, the work was impressive all around.
    Love the dedication of LEOs.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    I assume the U's focus will be PR, and the matter will settle relatively quickly.
    The U will not be calling the shots on settlement. The U will be defended by the AG's office which might possibly hire outside counsel to do the heavy lifting. I was heavily involved in that process on a fairly high profile sexual harassment case in the late 80's early 90's. The money questions will decided by the State agency that handles insurance claims against the State. In the case I was involved with, the plaintiff (it was a female vs. female sexual harassment case) was determined to have her day in court and did not consider reasonable settlement offers. I recall we met with the Governor and some Legislators a couple of times to outline the case, what it was going to cost through various stages, and obtain some settlement authority. We had a bench trial. We won, but probably spent at least $1 mil on the defense.

    A lot will depend on whether the McCluskey's like the public eye they have embraced so far and how long they want that to continue. When the case is settled, they lose that and for now, it seems like their anger at the U is what they have left that for them seems to keep their daughter in the forefront of their thoughts and actions.
    Last edited by UTEopia; 06-29-2019 at 01:23 PM.

  11. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    The U will not be calling the shots on settlement. The U will be defended by the AG's office which might possibly hire outside counsel to do the heavy lifting. I was heavily involved in that process on a fairly high profile sexual harassment case in the late 80's early 90's. The money questions will decided by the State agency that handles insurance claims against the State. In the case I was involved with, the plaintiff (it was a female vs. female sexual harassment case) was determined to have her day in court and did not consider reasonable settlement offers. I recall we met with the Governor and some Legislators a couple of times to outline the case, what it was going to cost through various stages, and obtain some settlement authority. We had a bench trial. We won, but probably spent at least $1 mil on the defense.

    A lot will depend on whether the McCluskey's like the public eye they have embraced so far and how long they want that to continue. When the case is settled, they lose that and for now, it seems like their anger at the U is what they have left that for them seems to keep their daughter in the forefront of their thoughts and actions.
    And let’s be honest, the U’s attempts at caring about PR in this case have failed miserably.

    Their hired gun PR firm made it worse.


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  12. #162
    University Police Chief announced his retirement today. Hard to think that these aren't related to the current events.

    https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...mccluskey.html

  13. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    University Police Chief announced his retirement today. Hard to think that these aren't related to the current events.

    https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...mccluskey.html
    Strangely the U is giving him a year of salary and benefits as a severance package.

    He’s the first person I know if in law enforcement to get a severance package upon retiring.


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  14. #164
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    So, I just recently learned that bullet proof backpacks for kids are a thing.

    https://www.thecut.com/2018/02/bulle...-shooting.html

    There's some irony in the name of the man who started the company.

    Yasir Sheikh, president of Guard Dog Security, a Florida-based company that sells bulletproof backpacks and other protective items, began selling the bags five years ago, after 20 children and six adults were murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.

  15. #165
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Strangely the U is giving him a year of salary and benefits as a severance package.

    He’s the first person I know if in law enforcement to get a severance package upon retiring.
    That means it was negotiated and it probably means both sides wanted to end the relationship quietly.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  16. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    That means it was negotiated and it probably means both sides wanted to end the relationship quietly.
    Oh we all know that. It just looks bad when they’re trying to claim he’s voluntarily retiring


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  17. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Oh we all know that. It just looks bad when they’re trying to claim he’s voluntarily retiring


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    Don't worry guys, he's just taking a year off to spend time with his sick mother.

  18. #168
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Oh we all know that. It just looks bad when they’re trying to claim he’s voluntarily retiring
    Agreed. Yeah, it’s obvious what they were doing. I was just speculating that for both sides there must be plenty of dirty laundry to hide.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  19. #169
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    School shootings

    This is refreshing, criticizes arguments on both sides, and makes some reasonable suggestions:

    The dumbest arguments about gun control

    https://www.scottadamssays.com/2019/09/03/the-dumbest-arguments-about-gun-control/"

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #170
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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  21. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    How in the world is this a good idea. I'm sorry, but this is nuts. My kids are nervous enough about a shooting as it is - I don't see how this helps anyone. The kids get the principles: Run, hide, fight. The realities of this world are all too clear to them, without actually needing more reality added to it. How are actual gun shots supposed to further prepare them for such an event?

    And "Social Emotional Activities" - so you traumatize kids and then are going to have a discussion on how to cope with it. I swear, this is the stupidest generation of all time.

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