Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 121 to 145 of 145

Thread: School shootings

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    GBH said pretty much the same thing in 1999 and we didn't see much impact.

    LDS leader says limit gun access
    Arms, mental illness don't mix, he says


    Might be different this time. Our favorite Utah legislator is on the case!

    House Speaker Hughes: Utah lawmakers plan to hit accelerator on bills to prevent school shootings
    Also, GBH said he would do away with sports at byu. Too bad he couldn't fulfill that goal..

  2. #122
    Since this is due to the Fallout with the NRA

    Yowza (he’s the Lt Governor of Georgia)




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #123
    if I were running for Gov. of Georgia (which he apparently is), I would not pick a fight with Delta.

    He should just do it the Utah way. Call for an audit.

  4. #124
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,052

  5. #125
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,052
    Lol


  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    if I were running for Gov. of Georgia (which he apparently is), I would not pick a fight with Delta.

    He should just do it the Utah way. Call for an audit.
    Delta, a private company, brings billions to Georgia in tax revenue every year, and this bonehead thinks he can strongarm them over $50M/year in tax breaks?

    Delta don't even need to respond. This guy is done politically, and Delta will still be in Atlanta in 50 years.

  7. #127
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    16,050
    This is a thoughtful piece from The Atlantic -- at least to me, a non-gun owner.

    What Critics Don't Understand About Gun Culture


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This is a thoughtful piece from The Atlantic -- at least to me, a non-gun owner.
    "
    In just the last five years, we’ve faced multiple threats—so much so that neighbors have expressed concern for our safety, and theirs.
    "

    How is it that some people can attract so many spy-thriller like hitmen?
    There really needs to be some kind of citizen registry, so people can pass along the word when these characters move into their neighborhoods.

  9. #129
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    16,050

    School shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    "
    In just the last five years, we’ve faced multiple threats—so much so that neighbors have expressed concern for our safety, and theirs.
    "

    How is it that some people can attract so many spy-thriller like hitmen?
    There really needs to be some kind of citizen registry, so people can pass along the word when these characters move into their neighborhoods.
    I know him and his wife. He’s a writer and conservative pundit and vocally anti-Trump. Also they are white, live in rural Tennessee, and adopted a black African baby about 8 years ago. His family has been threatened. He didn’t go into all that in this piece, but that’s the backstory.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #130
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    16,050
    I think the effort to find a single “bad guy“ to blame the shooting on is really unfortunate and unproductive, but this is an interesting article about part of the overall patchwork of failures that led to the murders in Florida.

    Behind Cruz’s Rampage: Obama’s School-Leniency Policy

    https://www.realclearinvestigations...._shooting.html

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #131
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    16,050
    “But I believe, on moral, practical and constitutional grounds, that no private citizen should own an automatic weapon or a semi-automatic weapon that can easily be modified for automatic effects. These are military weapons. Their purpose is to kill human beings. They’re not used for hunting (unless you want to destroy the animal’s meat). They’re lousy for target shooting. But they’re excellent tools for mass murder.”

    — Retired Army officer and conservative pundit Ralph Peters.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost....-everyone/amp/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    “But I believe, on moral, practical and constitutional grounds, that no private citizen should own an automatic weapon or a semi-automatic weapon that can easily be modified for automatic effects. These are military weapons. Their purpose is to kill human beings. They’re not used for hunting (unless you want to destroy the animal’s meat). They’re lousy for target shooting. But they’re excellent tools for mass murder.”

    — Retired Army officer and conservative pundit Ralph Peters.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost....-everyone/amp/
    And this is the debate that never gets a resolution.

    For this argument second amendment supporters will always say “it doesn’t matter what we’ve developed”.

    But I have a very hard time believing those who wrote the second amendment had any clue we’d develop a gun that can fire thousands of rounds a minute. Or guns and ammunition that can penetrate armor like butter.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I think the effort to find a single “bad guy“ to blame the shooting on is really unfortunate and unproductive, but this is an interesting article about part of the overall patchwork of failures that led to the murders in Florida.

    Behind Cruz’s Rampage: Obama’s School-Leniency Policy

    https://www.realclearinvestigations...._shooting.html
    It's pretty clear this particular kid was disturbed enough he shouldn't have been in school. And he wasn't. Then he loaded up on entirely legal military grade weaponry and came back, armed to the hilt.

    But the "leniency strategy" has been quite effective in turning around lots of kids who've been labeled as problems, whether it's because their parents work 2-3 jobs and don't speak English, or kids who are at risk for going the "Tupac route" vs finding some traction in more achievement-oriented after school programs, etc.

    My wife teaches math at a Title I school where most of the kids qualify for subsidized school breakfast / lunch / early dinner. (Suffice it to say the traditional Utah assumption that stay-at-home moms can take turns augmenting the teacher in 35+ student classes like I grew up with doesn't apply well when 5-8 of parents out of 175 students show up for parent-teacher conferences, but that's another topic.)

    My wife has become expert at "flipping" kids who act out, expecting to be punished or expelled, and instead find a respectful, encouraging, challenging response, from a person who looks more like them than most of the teachers fresh out of college who are looking for easier teaching jobs at schools where the demographics provide kids who don't really need much teaching, let alone mentoring.

    Does her approach work all the time? Of course not. But she regularly gets kids who come back from the high school (and college) and thank her for helping them go in a different direction.

    The leniency approach is intended to break the cycle of kids self-segregating into the gangsta track, or the "I wanna baby in 9th grade" track.

  14. #134
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    16,050
    Another perspective:

    By ditching the NRA, companies are dividing Americans

    https://nypost.com/2018/03/03/by-dit...ing-americans/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Another perspective:

    By ditching the NRA, companies are dividing Americans

    https://nypost.com/2018/03/03/by-dit...ing-americans/
    LOL. I just read the headline, but what a headline! The onion is awesome.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Another perspective:

    By ditching the NRA, companies are dividing Americans

    https://nypost.com/2018/03/03/by-dit...ing-americans/
    The NRA has 5 million members, in a nation of 315 million. It's hard to imagine an organization with more outsized power than they wield. (Perhaps Israel's lobby in the US Congress.)

    There were 15 individuals who took advantage of Delta's NRA member discount, and Delta just got handed a $40 million penalty from the State of Georgia, who revoked their jet fuel tax break.

    On paper, this was a massive miscalculation by Delta
    .

    But multiple states have quickly responded with friendly offers to have Delta relocate from Atlanta, including NY and Virginia, whose public pitch was "Virginia is for lovers... and for airline hubs".

    Now, seriously, Delta is highly unlikely to uproot from Atlanta.

    But Delta is hardly rookies in the national political circus, have already been dragged into the fray by Trump seeking to slap a 300% tariff on Delta's one hundred new CS-300 jetliners they bought from Bombardier... just in the past several weeks.

    My hunch is Delta is counting on the very high polling numbers of Americans thinking *SOMETHING* needs to be done about guns, and the NRA's absolutist stance taking heat, from even buttoned down companies like Delta.
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 03-04-2018 at 10:55 AM.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    The NRA has 5 million members, in a nation of 315 million. It's hard to imagine an organization with more outsized power than they wield. (Perhaps Israel's lobby in the US Congress.)
    .
    The NRA is also the primary lobbyist for the consumer gun industry, which is worth around $50B in annual sales. The 'members' are just the justification for the organization's tax status.

  18. #138
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    16,050

    School shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    LOL. I just read the headline, but what a headline! The onion is awesome.
    Whoops. You just performed unintentional self-parody, AJ.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 03-04-2018 at 11:46 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  19. #139
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    16,050

    School shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    The NRA has 5 million members, in a nation of 315 million. It's hard to imagine an organization with more outsized power than they wield. (Perhaps Israel's lobby in the US Congress.)

    There were 15 individuals who took advantage of Delta's NRA member discount, and Delta just got handed a $40 million penalty from the State of Georgia, who revoked their jet fuel tax break.

    On paper, this was a massive miscalculation by Delta
    .

    But multiple states have quickly responded with friendly offers to have Delta relocate from Atlanta, including NY and Virginia, whose public pitch was "Virginia is for lovers... and for airline hubs".

    Now, seriously, Delta is highly unlikely to uproot from Atlanta.

    But Delta is hardly rookies in the national political circus, have already been dragged into the fray by Trump seeking to slap a 300% tariff on Delta's one hundred new CS-300 jetliners they bought from Bombardier... just in the past several weeks.

    My hunch is Delta is counting on the very high polling numbers of Americans thinking *SOMETHING* needs to be done about guns, and the NRA's absolutist stance taking heat, from even buttoned down companies like Delta.
    I’m not an NRA member and think many of their positions are extreme and unhelpful. I would say the same about many anti-gun organizations and their lobbyists. I just don’t like the left’s habit of demonizing their ideological opponents. It doesn’t help rational discourse. Boycotts against members of lawful organizations that are engaged in political speech (NRA members, not the NRA itself) and the inevitable related virtue-signaling (like Delta’s) are just as unhelpful.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #140
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    16,050
    This is depressing:

    “Those who advocate for gun control have an immediate answer — the prevalence of guns in the United States. Yet guns have been part of the fabric of American life for the entire history of our republic. Mass shootings — especially the most deadly mass shootings — are a far more recent phenomenon. Writing in 2015, Malcolm Gladwell wrote what I think is still the best explanation for modern American mass shootings, and it’s easily the least comforting. At the risk of oversimplifying a complex argument, essentially he argues that each mass shooting lowers the threshold for the next. He argues, we are in the midst of a slow-motion ‘riot’ of mass shootings, with the Columbine shooting in many ways the key triggering event.”

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/why-do-mass-shootings-happen-best-explanation/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  21. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This is depressing:

    “Those who advocate for gun control have an immediate answer — the prevalence of guns in the United States. Yet guns have been part of the fabric of American life for the entire history of our republic. Mass shootings — especially the most deadly mass shootings — are a far more recent phenomenon. Writing in 2015, Malcolm Gladwell wrote what I think is still the best explanation for modern American mass shootings, and it’s easily the least comforting. At the risk of oversimplifying a complex argument, essentially he argues that each mass shooting lowers the threshold for the next. He argues, we are in the midst of a slow-motion ‘riot’ of mass shootings, with the Columbine shooting in many ways the key triggering event.”

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/why-do-mass-shootings-happen-best-explanation/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
    If each mass shooting lowers a symbolic threshold, maybe a dramatic piece of gun control legislation could be a symbolic wake up call. Riots do end, people stop breaking windows and stealing stuff, and the threshold counter is re-set to 1. If we are in the midst of a slow motion riot, we need to figure out how to end the riot. Gun control laws are a natural place to start. I am not particularly optimistic about gun control, but it is ridiculous not to try.

  22. #142
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    16,050

    School shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    If each mass shooting lowers a symbolic threshold, maybe a dramatic piece of gun control legislation could be a symbolic wake up call. Riots do end, people stop breaking windows and stealing stuff, and the threshold counter is re-set to 1. If we are in the midst of a slow motion riot, we need to figure out how to end the riot. Gun control laws are a natural place to start. I am not particularly optimistic about gun control, but it is ridiculous not to try.
    I think we could start by making it much harder for mentally ill people to get access to guns, and making it harder for people generally to acquire military-style rifles. I don’t know how to achieve those goals, but an effort would be nice. The problem is that neither side trusts the other. It seems to me that the lack of trust on both sides is probably justified, because of the absolutist elements on both sides. So this is a bigger problem than just coming up with the right policy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by LA Ute; 05-20-2018 at 04:45 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  23. #143
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    16,050
    Interesting thoughts here.

    After Texas school shooting, how can we inoculate ourselves against the next one?

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...umn/627183002/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  24. #144
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,052
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I think we could start by making it much harder for mentally ill people to get access to guns, and making it harder for people generally to acquire military-style rifles. I don’t know how to achieve those goals, but an effort would be nice. The problem is that neither side trusts the other. It seems to me that the lack of trust on both sides is probably justified, because of the absolutist elements on both sides. So this is a bigger problem than just coming up with the right policy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I've had this discussion with my dad, and he's firmly against even either of those. He's not even a member of the NRA.

    The way he sees it, the first is a slippery slope to denying anyone from getting a gun, and the second is a slippery slope to limiting guns in general.

  25. #145
    How School Shootings Changed Their Classrooms
    By BARBARA MARCOLINI and NEETI UPADHYE

    https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100...ion=title-area

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •