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Thread: Political/Cultural Chit-Chat

  1. #151
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    After seeing more on this, I don't want to be dismissive of some of the youth's apparent bad behavior by saying, "boys will be boys", but what I do know is the ADULTS involved were not being adults.


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    The boy in the infamous photo, who’s been described by many as having a “punchable face,” speaks out:

    Covington Catholic student from incident at the Indigenous Peoples March issues statement with his side of the story

    https://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ry/2634008002/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The boy in the infamous photo, who’s been described by many as having a “punchable face,” speaks out:

    Covington Catholic student from incident at the Indigenous Peoples March issues statement with his side of the story

    https://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ry/2634008002/

    All caught on tape. Been a lot of backpedaling goin' on.....
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  3. #153
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The boy in the infamous photo, who’s been described by many as having a “punchable face,” speaks out:

    Covington Catholic student from incident at the Indigenous Peoples March issues statement with his side of the story

    https://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ry/2634008002/
    They were all just waiting for the bus in matching MAGA hats and shirts?

    I'm not buying it.

    I don't think they originally intended to that location in order to get into people's faces, were sitting around bored and probably all juiced up from their first rally and decided to bully someone else.

    This happened before they got in front of Nathan Phillips.



    There's also a video of them chanting "It's not rape if you enjoy it."

    So, he's not as innocent in all of this as he'd like us to think.

  4. #154
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    there's probably some fault on both sides. This story just needs to die.

  5. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Just warning you now - in three years, I'm going to start a "Happy for the MAGA high school kids" thread.
    This is genuinely the funniest post in the almost 6 year history of ub5.

  6. #156

    Political/Cultural Chit-Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    there's probably some fault on both sides. This story just needs to die.
    The blame is placed as follows:

    1) The Black Hebrew Israelites group (Google them. They are an Evangelical group who are intentionally provocative in borderline-vile ways to get a rise out if people. Seriously, walk away and ignore them).

    1b) The f’ing Russian bot farms who pushed the controversy so hard, both directions, on social media. They are the true winners in this whole story.

    2) The student group chaperones. (WTF? Where were they? How in the hell did they let things escalate? I have been around organized kids groups all my life, and am a parent to 4 boys. Separate the kids from situations beyond their understanding before they get in over their heads. And besides, the bus pickup spot is a few hundred yards away from the Lincoln Memorial anyway, not directly in front).

    3) The school. What kind of school sends kids 500 miles on buses to attend such a charged event as an anti-abortion rally? (Ignore the fact that none of these boys has a uterus anyhow).

    4) The media who immediately attacked the boys, particularly any media member who wished harm on the dumbass kids. They acted without fully vetting the situation.

    5) The media who immediately mea culpa-ed and reversed course after reading a single press release from an expensive Kentucky PR firm directly linked to McConnell and the GOP and owned by a CNN contributor. Again, they acted without fully vetting the entire situation.

    6) The dumbass kids themselves. They will learn when to walk away from a situation, hopefully. And also, hopefully, they will go to a college where their closed little minds will be opened to the broader realities of life. They will have their own Come To Jesus moments, and we can hope they will make the right choices in life.

    7) Uncle Charlie on Facebook who thought these dumbass kids need to be protected at all costs, but thought that 12 yr old Tamir Rice had menacingly provoked the cops with his Airsoft gun and "deserved" to be gunned down within 10 seconds. Everybody has one (or multiple) of those guys in their lives. F that guy (but still remain civil at Thanksgiving).
    Last edited by LA Ute; 01-23-2019 at 08:09 AM.

  7. #157
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    The blame is placed as follows:

    1) The Black Hebrew Israelites group (Google them. They are an Evangelical group who are intentionally provocative in borderline-vile ways to get a rise out if people. Seriously, walk away and ignore them).

    1b) The fucking Russian bot farms who pushed the controversy so hard, both directions, on social media. They are the true winners in this whole story.

    2) The student group chaperones. (WTF? Where were they? How in the hell did they let things escalate? I have been around organized kids groups all my life, and am a parent to 4 boys. Separate the kids from situations beyond their understanding before they get in over their heads. And besides, the bus pickup spot is a few hundred yards away from the Lincoln Memorial anyway, not directly in front).

    3) The school. What kind of school sends kids 500 miles on buses to attend such a charged event as an anti-abortion rally? (Ignore the fact that none of these boys has a uterus anyhow).

    4) The media who immediately attacked the boys, particularly any media member who wished harm on the dumbass kids. They acted without fully vetting the situation.

    5) The media who immediately mea culpa-ed and reversed course after reading a single press release from an expensive Kentucky PR firm directly linked to McConnell and the GOP and owned by a CNN contributor. Again, they acted without fully vetting the entire situation.

    6) The dumbass kids themselves. They will learn when to walk away from a situation, hopefully. And also, hopefully, they will go to a college where their closed little minds will be opened to the broader realities of life. They will have their own Come To Jesus moments, and we can hope they will make the right choices in life.

    7) Uncle Charlie on Facebook who thought these dumbass kids need to be protected at all costs, but thought that 12 yr old Tamir Rice had menacingly provoked the cops with his Airsoft gun and "deserved" to be gunned down within 10 seconds. Everybody has one (or multiple) of those guys in their lives. **** that guy (but still remain civil at Thanksgiving).
    Hadn’t heard about the Russian bots. Vile people. I also wonder about the kids’ leaders. I can see a Catholic school field trip to a pro-life rally but not the MAGA hats. Dumb. Provocative. Partisan. Waving a red flag in front of a bull.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #158
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    OK, this made me laugh.

    Increasingly Secular Nation Replaces Outdated Religious Ideas With End Times Prophecies, Moral Judgments

    https://babylonbee.com/news/increasi...ign=matt_walsh

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #159
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Covington students failed to act like grownups. So did the adults.

    As a young(ish) blogger, I learned, the hard way, that one should never go full-frontal jerk on the Internet. Partly because one should generally eschew jerkhood. And partly because of what happens if facts later prove your initial response was mistaken.

    After you’ve been lobbing flaming insults from the moral high ground, any subsequent climbdown is humiliating. Frequently, people are tempted to cling to their increasingly untenable position, which only extends the period during which they look utter fools.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...db9_story.html

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #160
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    “In fourteen hundred and ninety-two, Columbus sailed the ocean blue...”

    From the Wall Street Journal:

    *****

    Catholics Against Columbus

    In covering a mural, Notre Dame gives in to the far left’s assault on Western history.

    Father John Jenkins, president of the University of Notre Dame, announced Sunday that the school would cover a dozen murals depicting the life of Christopher Columbus. “The murals’ depiction of Columbus as beneficent explorer and friend of the native peoples hides from view the darker side of this story,” he asserted in a letter.

    While this decision may give the university a brief respite from its critics, it will never be enough. Columbus may be the momentary object of hatred, but the real target is the Catholic faith itself.

    What exactly is the dark side of the Columbus story? The facts do not add up to rash charges of genocide and murder made by his critics. If anything, they reveal a man who was not perfect but still ahead of his time.

    Brown University anthropologist Carol Delaney has defended the explorer’s reputation extensively, noting that his interactions with Native Americans tended to be “benign.” And Bartolome de las Casas, the most outspoken defender of the Native Americans in the colonial period, also supported the explorer’s intentions and motivations.

    The colonial experience was often traumatic and certainly had its faults. But as a Peruvian-American of color, I still believe there is much to celebrate in how the Americas have changed in the past 500 years. As a Catholic, I particularly value Columbus for bringing the first of many missionaries who showed millions of people the path to salvation.

    Any reasonable analysis also must acknowledge that the indigenous world was not perfect either. Take one example.

    Human sacrifice was not unusual in my home country, as in much of the Americas. In what is now Peru, children were sacrificed by the Incas in a practice known as Capacocha. Should any positive depictions of the Incas be covered up, in light of this heinous practice? Of course not. And those who hate Columbus and his legacy still must acknowledge that this indigenous practice vanished thanks to the advent of Christianity in our hemisphere.

    The notion that indigenous life was perfect and Western culture is the locus of all evil is as absurd as white supremacy. Colonial violence was terrible, but it was not the first violence encountered by Native American cultures. Beyond human sacrifice, tribal and civilizational conflicts existed long before Columbus set foot in this hemisphere. History is nuanced, and seldom does it present binary choices between pure evil and pure good. An academic institution should understand that and not cave in to an ahistoric understanding of the past.

    In his letter, Father Jenkins mentioned Martin Luther King Jr. Apparently he was unaware of the irony: Tearing down Columbus monuments has been the work of hateful fringe groups in this country for decades. The Ku Klux Klan pioneered the practice, and antifa has taken up the mantle in recent years. This is the company Notre Dame chooses to keep.

    As Catholic universities across the U.S. have become more secular, many hoped that they would at least remain safe for Catholic ideas. But this incident raises a troubling question: If murals that portray Columbus bringing the faith to this hemisphere are not welcome at a Catholic university, what part of Catholic identity is?

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/catholi...us-11548376196

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #161
    This local commentary about the Lincoln Memorial incident is pretty stupid, imo.

    https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/comme...y-teacher-ive/

    You'd think an educator would get how youth work a little better than she apparently does.

  12. #162
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    This local commentary about the Lincoln Memorial incident is pretty stupid, imo.

    https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/comme...y-teacher-ive/

    You'd think an educator would get how youth work a little better than she apparently does.
    The human prefrontal cortex doesn’t fully develop until about age 25. We all are especially prone to idiotic behavior until then.

    The rational part of a teen's brain isn't fully developed and won't be until age 25 or so. In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain's rational part.
    https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyc...ContentID=3051

    It’s an important part of our gray matter:

    This brain region has been implicated in planning complex cognitive behavior, personality expression, decision making, and moderating social behavior.[3] The basic activity of this brain region is considered to be orchestration of thoughts and actions in accordance with internal goals.

    The most typical psychological term for functions carried out by the prefrontal cortex area is executive function. Executive function relates to abilities to differentiate among conflicting thoughts, determine good and bad, better and best, same and different, future consequences of current activities, working toward a defined goal, prediction of outcomes, expectation based on actions, and social "control" (the ability to suppress urges that, if not suppressed, could lead to socially unacceptable outcomes).
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefrontal_cortex

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  13. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Hmmm...what's my excuse then?
    Slow developer.


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  14. #164

    Political/Cultural Chit-Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The human prefrontal cortex doesn’t fully develop until about age 25. We all are especially prone to idiotic behavior until then.



    https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyc...ContentID=3051

    It’s an important part of our gray matter:



    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefrontal_cortex
    Having a kid that age and my church calling has me spending a lot of time with kids that age. While I wouldn't send my son out in the wild wearing a MAGA hat, I can see him react almost exactly like that kid did. Basically not knowing what to do and probably not realizing that getting out of the way, or walking away was an option.

    Crowds of teenagers also just do a lot of silly and sometimes inappropriate things, mostly in the name of getting a laugh and impressing friends or awkward attempts to get girls to notice them or whatever.

    So it is weird that former educator doesn't seem to get that.

    One other thing about the MAGA hats... It has become a symbol and a rallying cry for racist ideas but it doesn't mean that for everyone... yet. Keep in mind these are kids in Kentucky as well. And speaking of not having a completely developed brain, these kids political views are probably mirroring largely their parents. So to believe it was some concerted effort to spark racial disharmony is likely very overstated.

    In the other direction - when Trump was elected and some students staged walk-outs, it happened at my son's school. After it happened I asked if he walked out or stayed in class. He had walked out. I asked him why and he basically said, "Well you don't like Trump and all my friends were doing it."

    So we had a chat about things, but it was eye opening how some mostly fleeting comments about Trump had been picked up by him and internalized as fact along with the power of peer pressure.

    Anyway, I'm all over the place, my main point is that my experience is to give youth in general a bit of a pass on these sort of things, or at least far more than the adults for the developmental issues you noted.


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  15. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    This local commentary about the Lincoln Memorial incident is pretty stupid, imo.

    https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/comme...y-teacher-ive/

    You'd think an educator would get how youth work a little better than she apparently does.

    Frankly, I thought the Sandmann kid had remarkable composure both during the event and during his TV interview.

    As for the "smirking", has anyone seen this kid's Today interview? Those that have raised teens understand that while teens like their independence and individuality, they're generally only comfortable with it to within one or two standard deviations from their peers norm. Anyway, from the Today interview you get a good look at the boy's teeth, and they're totally jacked up -- much worse than most his age. I don't know this is the reason he didn't show his teeth, but, I've known teens with better teeth teach themselves to smile without showing their pearlies to the world.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  16. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    Frankly, I thought the Sandmann kid had remarkable composure both during the event and during his TV interview.

    As for the "smirking", has anyone seen this kid's Today interview? Those that have raised teens understand that while teens like their independence and individuality, they're generally only comfortable with it to within one or two standard deviations from their peers norm. Anyway, from the Today interview you get a good look at the boy's teeth, and they're totally jacked up -- much worse than most his age. I don't know this is the reason he didn't show his teeth, but, I've known teens with better teeth teach themselves to smile without showing their pearlies to the world.
    That's my daughter, she has a tooth that is almost imperceptibly a little crooked (still too young for braces) and the second it came in that way she stopped showing her teeth in her smile. Makes me sad because she has such a beautiful smile.


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  17. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    Frankly, I thought the Sandmann kid had remarkable composure both during the event and during his TV interview.

    As for the "smirking", has anyone seen this kid's Today interview? Those that have raised teens understand that while teens like their independence and individuality, they're generally only comfortable with it to within one or two standard deviations from their peers norm. Anyway, from the Today interview you get a good look at the boy's teeth, and they're totally jacked up -- much worse than most his age. I don't know this is the reason he didn't show his teeth, but, I've known teens with better teeth teach themselves to smile without showing their pearlies to the world.
    One other thing, as you note he is a kid. Even if what he did was actually smirking and taunting he deserves to be corrected, not drawn and quartered. To hear he has been getting death threats is pretty disturbing.

    People are saying this incident is a microcosm of our society today, I would say our reaction to it is much more reflective. (And I will admit that when I first saw the picture and video out of context I was bothered by it - against the kids).


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  18. #168
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    From a liberal writer:

    This Is How the Left Destroys Itself

    It’s ridiculous to claim that the Covington Catholic schoolboys are a symbol of what ails America.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar..._medium=social

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  19. #169
    White supremacy finds its way to the Hill.

    https://attheu.utah.edu/university-s...ning-racism-2/


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  20. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    White supremacy finds its way to the Hill.

    https://attheu.utah.edu/university-s...ning-racism-2/


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    Not the first time. This happens at campuses around the state a couple of times a year.


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  21. #171
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Political/Cultural Chit-Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    White supremacy finds its way to the Hill.

    https://attheu.utah.edu/university-s...ning-racism-2/


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    As I’ve heard said, “The great thing about free speech is that it makes to spotting the idiots easier.”

    If these particular idiots had any real following, they wouldn’t have to post banners in secret and run away from them.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 01-27-2019 at 04:50 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  22. #172
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Ocasio-Cortez could face a primary challenge in 2020 as frustrated Democrats begin to whisper about torpedoing firebrand who is working to replace them with progressives

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-campaign.html

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  23. #173
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Gotta get to the high priority items first.

    Dems to strike 'so help you God' from oath taken in front of key House committee, draft shows

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dem...ouse-committee

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  24. #174
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Aren’t my Democratic friends here just a little alarmed at the party’s leftward movement? Is there still anything like the Democratic Leadership Council that helped elect Bill Clinton?

    On Monday, in a townhall organized by CNN, Kamala Harris endorsed a Medicare-for-All plan that would “eliminate”—her word—private insurance. According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, employer-provided health insurance covers “approximately 152 million nonelderly people in total.” A poll last year by America’s Health Insurance Plan (AHIP) found that 71 percent of Americans were satisfied with their employer’s plan. Most Americans have health insurance, and most Americans are pretty happy with their insurance. Too bad: Kamala Harris says it’s time to “move on.”

    Harris’s rival, Elizabeth Warren, has endorsed a tax of 2 percent on assets above $50 million and 3 percent on assets above $1 billion. Now, Warren would like to raise taxes on incomes, capital gains, dividends, and corporations, too. That’s just for starters. A wealth tax of the sort she has proposed—a government claw-back of property in order to make real a subjective standard of equality—would be unique in American history. It might even be unconstitutional. But hey, why worry about that when you can indulge in some light court packing?

    The brightest star in the Democratic Party is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, aka AOC. The other week, in conversation with Ta-Nehisi Coates, AOC said, “I do think that a system that allows billionaires to exist when there are parts of Alabama where people are still getting ringworm because they don’t have access to public health is wrong.” Don’t worry, “It’s not to say someone like Bill Gates or Warren Buffet are immoral people.” AOC’s complaint is with the “system” that “allows” Gates and Buffet—and Schultz and Bezos and George Lucas and Mark Zuckerberg and the rest—”to exist.” Presumably, then, Gates and Buffet are safe, existentially speaking. But the “system” of relatively free enterprise that allowed them to grow rich—and finance or innovate remarkable advances in technology and productivity that have benefited the world—should be altered drastically. Hence AOC’s call for a 70-percent marginal tax rate—backed by the same genius from Berkeley who designed Warren’s expropriation of wealth—to help pay for the “Green New Deal” that will give us “a 100% greenhouse gas neutral power generation system, decarbonizing industry and agriculture and more.” Currently, 17 percent of American energy is renewable. The scale of coercion required for such a transformation would brighten any Jacobin’s day. Don’t think too hard about the details of the proposal, though. AOC says there isn’t time to worry about cost, implementation, and unanticipated consequences. “The world is going to end in 12 years if we don’t address climate change,” she told Coates. Nice while it lasted, I suppose.

    AOC also has a message for Schultz, who has been the recipient of sustained, ferocious, and panicked attacks from members of his former party outraged that a moderate billionaire might spoil their plans for replacing Trump with an unreconstructed left-winger. “Why don’t people ever tell billionaires who want to run for president that they need to ‘work their way up’ or that ‘maybe they should start with city council first’? ” she Tweeted. Well, plenty of people do tell them that—I seem to recall a lack of government experience being an issue in the most recent presidential election—but if anyone has “worked his way up,” from the poorhouse to being the first in his family to graduate from college to turning a coffee shop at the Pike Place market into the global behemoth that is Starbucks, it’s Howard Schultz. I’d even go as far to say that Schultz’s company has done more for its low-wage workers than the corniest socialist dreams of AOC.

    Let’s see … what else happened in the busy world of crazy … excuse me while I flip through my files … Ah yes, there was congresswoman Ilhan Omar, parroting the Kremlin-Havana-Tehran line on the democratic uprising in Venezuela, calling it “a U.S. backed coup.” A few days later, Omar, a supporter of the anti-Semitic Boycott Divestment Sanctions movement whom the Democrats have awarded with a place on the House Foreign Relations Committee, said she “almost chuckles” because “we still uphold” the Jewish State of Israel “as a democracy in the Middle East.” I chuckle—and begin seriously to worry—that someone who cannot distinguish between tyranny in Latin America and democracy in the Middle East commands such acclaim and receives such attention. Omar has former Obama adviser Valerie Jarrett in her corner. When Omar dismissed Congressman Lee Zeldin’s criticism of her views by Tweeting, “Don’t mind him, he is just waking up to the reality of having Muslim women as colleagues who know how to stand up to bullies!”, Jarrett replied, “Shake him up!” Zeldin is a Jewish Republican.
    https://freebeacon.com/columns/the-d...e-their-minds/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Aren’t my Democratic friends here just a little alarmed at the party’s leftward movement? Is there still anything like the Democratic Leadership Council that helped elect Bill Clinton?



    https://freebeacon.com/columns/the-d...e-their-minds/
    You want a Democratic equivalent of the effective Republican organization that got Marco elected and blocked DJT?

  26. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Aren’t my Democratic friends here just a little alarmed at the party’s leftward movement? Is there still anything like the Democratic Leadership Council that helped elect Bill Clinton?
    This could be the classic strategy taking of a strong position for the purposes of the primary, and then back off and say there is room for differences of opinion and defer to a select panel of a variety of experts during the general election, and if elected, to govern. Many people see flexibility in thinking to be a virtue.

    Obama "evolved" on gay marriage. Lincoln came around to declaring slavery as the reason for the civil war. Trump is ready to declare a national emergency to keep a campaign promise of creating a wall. Which approach shows real leadership?

    Native Utahn and noted strategic thinker Clayton Christensen, a Harvard Business professor and expert on disruptive technologies, had an unusual take on the state of healthcare reform in America. He said Obamacare was a good start, but it didn't go nearly far enough, and it would require autocratic leadership in healthcare to break entrenched high cost models and thinking.

    Even though they vigorously opposed Obamacare, many Republicans shy away from healthcare as an issue because the provisions of Obamacare are very popular and widely seen as sacrosanct, such as covering pre-existing conditions.

    So, Harris could/should back off later into a position of expanding Medicaid to strive toward 100% coverage, while continuing to put cost pressure on private insurers.

    Eventually (10+ years) we could settle into a two-tier model like many countries have adopted, where there's a base level of coverage for everyone (complete with waiting lists for non-emergent procedures) and supplemental private insurance for those who don't want to wait. For example, in France it's sort of assumed that supplementary coverage is a necessity. Many Canadians have supplementary insurance.

    Going back to Christensen's hunch that disruptive leadership will be needed in healthcare, I think there's still room for the private sector to innovate disruptive delivery and insurance models, in the same way Amazon has disrupted the retail sector. This would survive expansion of Medicaid / Medicare.

    One persistent gripe among providers is Medicare doesn't reimburse enough. CMS did a study of providers in areas where a high percentage of patients were on Medicare, and found many practices found ways to economize and still make a profit with high loads of Medicare patients. Tough choices at a micro level led to economical healthy provider organizations on much lower levels of reimbursement.

    Big Pharma is under attack on multiple fronts. Intermountain is leading a group of hospitals that will start a generics pharmaceutical company, as many Big Pharma companies abandon generics as not being profitable enough.

    Harris' position right now will motivate a lot of people to the polls on both sides, but the way forward will probably be much more "grey".

  27. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Aren’t my Democratic friends here just a little alarmed at the party’s leftward movement? Is there still anything like the Democratic Leadership Council that helped elect Bill Clinton?

    https://freebeacon.com/columns/the-d...e-their-minds/
    I don't think there is room in either party as they are constituted for people in the middle. The primary system requires candidates to appeal to most extreme elements of their party. A significant problem for the Dems is that they allow the opposition to define the discussion. For example, the real issue on abortion is not abortion, it is choice, yet the pro-life groups have focused the discussion on abortion and not on choice. The recent legislation passed in NY does, I believe, allow late term abortions for women whose health is in jeopardy. I don't think it extends beyond that. However, the pro-life groups have made it sound like any woman can choose an abortion up through the actual delivery. For me, this is a difficult issue. I am not pro-abortion however, I am pro-choice. I would like to see limits on timing for all abortions except those where the health of the mother is in jeopardy. Hell, even my Church allows for abortion in cases of rape, incest and health of the mother and, we had very close friends who found during the pregnancy that the fetus was not viable because of genetic defect. He was a Bishop at the time and spoke with Stake President and General Authority and was told that the decision was between them and God.

  28. #178
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Political/Cultural Chit-Chat

    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I don't think there is room in either party as they are constituted for people in the middle. The primary system requires candidates to appeal to most extreme elements of their party. A significant problem for the Dems is that they allow the opposition to define the discussion. For example, the real issue on abortion is not abortion, it is choice, yet the pro-life groups have focused the discussion on abortion and not on choice. The recent legislation passed in NY does, I believe, allow late term abortions for women whose health is in jeopardy. I don't think it extends beyond that. However, the pro-life groups have made it sound like any woman can choose an abortion up through the actual delivery. For me, this is a difficult issue. I am not pro-abortion however, I am pro-choice. I would like to see limits on timing for all abortions except those where the health of the mother is in jeopardy. Hell, even my Church allows for abortion in cases of rape, incest and health of the mother and, we had very close friends who found during the pregnancy that the fetus was not viable because of genetic defect. He was a Bishop at the time and spoke with Stake President and General Authority and was told that the decision was between them and God.
    I think convenience abortion is the issue that upsets most anti-abortion people, including me. I agree that the LDS position is moderate and I like it (rape, incest, life of mother, fetus not viable even at full-term). It would be hard to write legislation enforcing that approach (and it would be unconstitutional in pre-viability cases).

    OTOH, late-term and partial-birth are barbaric practices in the overwhelming majority of cases. What Gov. Northam said about it, if I understood him correctly, actually makes me feel ill.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 02-02-2019 at 04:47 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  29. #179
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Los Angeles, California
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    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I don't think there is room in either party as they are constituted for people in the middle. The primary system requires candidates to appeal to most extreme elements of their party. A significant problem for the Dems is that they allow the opposition to define the discussion. For example, the real issue on abortion is not abortion, it is choice, yet the pro-life groups have focused the discussion on abortion and not on choice. The recent legislation passed in NY does, I believe, allow late term abortions for women whose health is in jeopardy. I don't think it extends beyond that. However, the pro-life groups have made it sound like any woman can choose an abortion up through the actual delivery. For me, this is a difficult issue. I am not pro-abortion however, I am pro-choice. I would like to see limits on timing for all abortions except those where the health of the mother is in jeopardy. Hell, even my Church allows for abortion in cases of rape, incest and health of the mother and, we had very close friends who found during the pregnancy that the fetus was not viable because of genetic defect. He was a Bishop at the time and spoke with Stake President and General Authority and was told that the decision was between them and God.
    I could be wrong, but I don’t think Clayton Christensen advocates a more government-controlled healthcare program like single-payer or Medicare for all. I don’t have his book with me, but I’ll check.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  30. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I could be wrong, but I don’t think Clayton Christensen advocates a more government-controlled healthcare program like single-payer or Medicare for all. I don’t have his book with me, but I’ll check.
    I used to see that guy at church every once in a while because his son was at Duke. Nice guy. He always gave intelligent, articulate comments in Sunday School. I'll always remember the time some guy asked why investing was any different from gambling, and Christensen uncharacteristically gave a rambling, incoherent answer that went on for minutes. It was nice to see him as a mortal for once instead of as a genius.

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