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Thread: Political/Cultural Chit-Chat

  1. #31
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I suspect there will be more agreement here on this subject.

    Growing number of U.S. children not vaccinated against any disease

    An estimated 100,000 young children have not had a vaccination against any of the 14 diseases for which shots are recommended, according to a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report released Thursday.

    “This is pretty concerning. It’s something we need to understand better — and reduce,” said the CDC’s Dr. Amanda Cohn.

    Most young children — 70 percent — have had all their shots. The new estimate is based on finding that, in 2017, 1.3 percent of the children born in 2015 were completely unvaccinated. That’s up from the 0.9 percent seen in an earlier similar assessment of the kids born in 2011. A 2001 survey with a different methodology suggested the proportion was in the neighborhood of 0.3 percent.

    Young children are especially vulnerable to complications from vaccine-preventable diseases, some of which can be fatal.
    I think the people who refuse to vaccinate their children are endangering their own kids, as well as their kids’ friends. Among other things, it’s my understanding that failing to vaccinate creates opportunities for diseases once thought eradicated to return to the population.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I suspect there will be more agreement here on this subject.

    Growing number of U.S. children not vaccinated against any disease



    I think the people who refuse to vaccinate their children are endangering their own kids, as well as their kids’ friends. Among other things, it’s my understanding that failing to vaccinate creates opportunities for diseases once thought eradicated to return to the population.
    It’s already happening.

    When my daughter was born at the U 2 months ago we appreciated their restrictions which made anyone who couldn’t show a current TDaP vaccine wear a mask anywhere on the unit.

    Whooping cough is becoming a big problem. Especially in Utah county


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  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    It’s already happening.

    When my daughter was born at the U 2 months ago we appreciated their restrictions which made anyone who couldn’t show a current TDaP vaccine wear a mask anywhere on the unit.

    Whooping cough is becoming a big problem. Especially in Utah county


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    Yep. Ban them from public schools.

  4. #34
    A woman in my neighborhood had polio as a child. Nicest person on earth, her physical quality of life is seriously compromised. I wish she could meet all these anti-vaccinators.

    We forget what these diseases the immunizations prevent used to do.


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  5. #35
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Anti-vaxxers drive me nuts.

    anti-vaxxer.JPG

  6. #36
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I’m not big on gun rights, but this seems silly to me. Virtue-signaling much more than policy.

    LA Passes Ordinance Requiring City Contractors To Disclose NRA Ties

    https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018...yA6-eASWeUdudA

    My city is trying to play catch-up with San Francisco, which is doing the same regarding Berkeley.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I’m not big on gun rights, but this seems silly to me. Virtue-signaling much more than policy.

    LA Passes Ordinance Requiring City Contractors To Disclose NRA Ties

    https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018...yA6-eASWeUdudA

    My city is trying to play catch-up with San Francisco, which is doing the same regarding Berkeley.
    We are wrong to care about politics as much as we do. It's crazy how many people are unable to work, play, and/or associate with people who believe differently.

  8. #38
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    We are wrong to care about politics as much as we do. It's crazy how many people are unable to work, play, and/or associate with people who believe differently.
    The majority of my close friends are liberals. There's something wrong with them, or with me, or maybe with both them and me.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 10-12-2018 at 06:40 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #39
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    One of the greatest political ads ever.

    https://youtu.be/TjYihTRTrhw

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #40
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Political/Cultural Chit-Chat

    I am not taking any side in this matter, it’s just very interesting, and the outcome of the lawsuit will be interesting too, perhaps significant.

    Basic facts: A guy with an “agritourism” business, which involves a lot of re-enacting of historical events, supports Trump on social media. His operation is pretty well-known. (I know of him because many of the Latter-day Saint congregations in Southern California use his farm as a base for pioneer treks.) Anti-Trump people inside and outside of public school districts launched a boycott of his business. Response: A civil rights lawsuit.

    Here’s the federal court compliant filed in the Central District of California:

    https://www.scribd.com/document/3907...Filed-10-12-18
    Last edited by LA Ute; 10-14-2018 at 07:15 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I am not taking any side in this matter, it’s just very interesting, and the outcome of the lawsuit will be interesting too, perhaps significant.

    Basic facts: A guy with an “agritourism” business, which involves a lot of re-enacting of historical events, supports Trump on social media. His operation is pretty well-known. (I know of him because many of the Latter-day Saint congregations in Southern California use his farm as a base for pioneer treks.) Anti-Trump people inside and outside of public school districts launched a boycott of his business. Response: A civil rights lawsuit.

    Here’s the federal court compliant filed in the Central District of California:

    https://www.scribd.com/document/3907...Filed-10-12-18
    Just curious - are attorneys who bring religious rights cases and actions like this "civil rights" attorneys?

  12. #42
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    Just curious - are attorneys who bring religious rights cases and actions like this "civil rights" attorneys?
    It's not a religious rights case, it's framed in First/Fourteenth Amendment free speech terms. Doesn't 42 U.S.C. § 1983(which I always hear referred to as "Section 1983") allow lawsuits for violations of constitutional rights? I took a quick look at the complaint and it's based on that section and claims the plaintiff's free speech rights under the 1st and 14th Amendments were violated. No religious discrimination claims made. As far as I know, Riley's Farm, the plaintiff, isn't a religious organization, but does lots of historical reenactments. The pioneer trek staging they provide is only one of those. Per the complaint:

    Riley’s Farm operates an agritourism business, which it describes as a “living history farm,” in the foothills of the San Bernardino Mountains, in the rural community of Oak Glen, San Bernardino County. Its varied business activities include seasonal “U-Pick” apple and other fruit picking, produce sales, pie, pastry, cider, jam and other food sales, historical and other novelty item sales, a seasonal pumpkin patch, a restaurant and tavern, dinner theater events, hosting of corporate, family and associational events, summer “day camp” activities, film and commercial location shooting, historically-themed activities such as tomahawk throwing, candle dipping and archery, and school field trips. 17.

    Depending on the season, Riley’s Farm employs between 28 and 163 full- and part-time workers of diverse backgrounds, with the latter high number being reached during the spring “high season” for school field trips....

    Riley’s Farm’s field trip programs include immersive presentations focused on the American Revolution, the Civil War, American colonial farm life, the California Gold Rush, and the pioneer homesteading history of Oak Glen and the San Gorgonio Pass region.

    Of these presentations, the American Revolution presentation is the most popular. A large area of the Riley’s Farm premises is landscaped and themed as “Colonial Chesterfield,” portraying a New Hampshire village of the 1770s. A post-and-beam colonial tavern, orchards, a village green, stone walls, a storehouse, and a pillory furnish an authentic period environment. Students are divided into small groups (each typically accompanied by a teacher, aide or volunteer chaperone) and spend the day rotating among “stations” where “living historians” in period dress provide interactive presentations on different aspects of the history of the American Revolution and its time period.
    Looks like the complaint (which I've only skimmed) alleges that the Claremont School District has sent students to Riley Farms presentations for many years, that some people involved with the District were angry about political social media commentary by one of Riley's principals, and that somehow they got the District to stop using Riley Farms because of that. I'm no civil rights lawyer but it seems to me a key fact question will be the extent of the District's involvement. State action, you know.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    It's not a religious rights case, it's framed in First/Fourteenth Amendment free speech terms. Doesn't 42 U.S.C. § 1983(which I always hear referred to as "Section 1983") allow lawsuits for violations of constitutional rights? I took a quick look at the complaint and it's based on that section and claims the plaintiff's free speech rights under the 1st and 14th Amendments were violated. No religious discrimination claims made. As far as I know, Riley's Farm, the plaintiff, isn't a religious organization, but does lots of historical reenactments. The pioneer trek staging they provide is only one of those. Per the complaint:



    Looks like the complaint (which I've only skimmed) alleges that the Claremont School District has sent students to Riley Farms presentations for many years, that some people involved with the District were angry about political social media commentary by one of Riley's principals, and that somehow they got the District to stop using Riley Farms because of that. I'm no civil rights lawyer but it seems to me a key fact question will be the extent of the District's involvement. State action, you know.
    I was referring to suits based upon religious rights as a separate group from the case referred to. It was a lame effort at an ironic statement, based upon the traditional complaints about "civil rights attorneys," kind of like "plaintiff's attorneys."
    FYI, complaints can be brought under 1983 for violations of federal constitutional or statutory provisions ( although the activist conservative USSC has made it more difficult to enforce statutes.)

  14. #44
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    I was referring to suits based upon religious rights as a separate group from the case referred to. It was a lame effort at an ironic statement, based upon the traditional complaints about "civil rights attorneys," kind of like "plaintiff's attorneys."
    FYI, complaints can be brought under 1983 for violations of federal constitutional or statutory provisions ( although the activist conservative USSC has made it more difficult to enforce statutes.)
    You're such a commie.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #45
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Monty Python, 1968:

    https://youtu.be/3DlN4Sh06po
    Last edited by LA Ute; 11-07-2018 at 09:32 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  16. #46
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    From a recent Zogby poll:

    The Zogby Poll®: Voters feel the mainstream media is also to blame for the spread of hate and misunderstanding; Voters say the mainstream media divides people along racial, gender, and political lines; A majority of Democrats agree.

    Based on the results of the recent midterm election in the U.S., in which the Democrats took back control of the House and the Republicans regained a majority in the Senate, suffice it to say, Americans are politically divided. The country is also divided as to who should shoulder the blame: There are some people who feel racial, gender, and political issues are made worse by the coverage of the mainstream media, while there are others who feel the divide we currently suffer from is the result of President Trump's rhetoric.

    In order to determine who voters blame more, we asked likely voters in separate questions, "Do you agree or disagree: The mainstream media/President Trump has played a major role in dividing Americans along racial, gender and political lines. This has led to a spread of hate and misunderstanding among some people."

    It's no surprise that strong majorities blame both the mainstream media and Trump: Nearly three-quarters agreed (strongly and somewhat agree combined) that the mainstream media plays a major role in the spread of hate, while only 29% disagreed with this notion. This was more than the two-thirds of respondents, who felt the same about President Trump, while one-third disagreed. We will get into the specific details of the president's role, regarding America's political divide, in our next release.
    https://zogbyanalytics.com/news/875-...emocrats-agree

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  17. #47
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Not a great pollster. But not awful.

    Source: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/

    zogby.jpg

  18. #48
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    Not a great pollster. But not awful.

    Source: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/

    zogby.jpg
    Well, he's a Democrat. What did you expect?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  19. #49
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Well, he's a Democrat. What did you expect?
    He's only a Democrat in the sense that he believes in math and science.


  20. #50
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    “At some point you’ve made enough money.” Exactly when does one reach that point? Inquiring minds want to know!

    The Obamas are ‘Becoming’ a billion-dollar brand

    https://nypost.com/2018/11/17/the-ob...-dollar-brand/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  21. #51
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  22. #52
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I think this is pretty funny.

    Russia Wants Bulgarians to Stop Painting Soviet Monuments To Look Like American Superheroes

    https://www.earthlymission.com/russi...77ReZcx0%C2%A0

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  23. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I wonder which ballot measures they were collecting signatures for.

  24. #54
    I never agree with Mike Lee, but I do on this.

    https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...-in-yemen.html

  25. #55
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    An interesting duo teaming up: Neil Gorsuch and Sonia Sotomayor.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...orfeiture.html

  26. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    An interesting duo teaming up: Neil Gorsuch and Sonia Sotomayor.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...orfeiture.html
    An incredibly easy case in which to form allegiances. How Indiana (and a bunch of other states too) didn't think that the 8th amendment applied to states is beyond me.

  27. #57
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    “George H.W. Bush was by temperament a man of the middle in an age of increasing ideological polarization. He was a gentleman in a culture growing cruder by the year. Above all he was a man of admirable private and public character who believed in government service for the good of the country and not merely for power. Those virtues made him a better President than his critics admitted.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/george-...680294?mod=mhp

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  28. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    “George H.W. Bush was by temperament a man of the middle in an age of increasing ideological polarization. He was a gentleman in a culture growing cruder by the year. Above all he was a man of admirable private and public character who believed in government service for the good of the country and not merely for power. Those virtues made him a better President than his critics admitted.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/george-...680294?mod=mhp
    Don't forget the whole Willie Horton thing. A crass appeal to racism.

  29. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    Don't forget the whole Willie Horton thing. A crass appeal to racism.

    And Lee Atwater. 41 helped usher in the era of polarization and really negative, underhanded campaigining.

  30. #60
    I got news for both you and Lee Atwater. Thomas Jefferson ushered in the era of polarization and really negative, underhanded campaigning. Both of you would do well to know your American history. By the way, blaming Bush 1 for polarization is laughable. That really didn't start happening until post-Clinton (some really good across-the-aisle legislation happened in the Clinton era). We might be able to hold Bush II more accountable for the trend but I would lay much more blame in the modern era on the Republicans during Pres. Obama's administration.

    What I'm trying to say is that polarization and negative campaigning has ebbed and flowed in our history. That's the only thing that gives me hope that the climate of our time ebbs.

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