Page 2 of 15 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 625

Thread: Political/Cultural Chit-Chat

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    In my interactions with people from more diverse backgrounds (I wouldn't have had if I wasn't connected with my wife) I've had conversations with folks who focus on Founders owning slaves, States Rights people looking the other way as Jim Crow happened, and now BLM, and conclude the entire system has been rotten from Day 1.

    Drawing in the bigger context, acknowledging history and reality, I point out the progress made. Women aren't property anymore, they can vote. Blacks have made enormous strides in terms of rights and opportunities, with tons of role models to look to.

    Are where we need to be? Of course not. Is the Klan back? Well, some are, it was clearly on TV. But every day, in every interaction with people, you can make a difference, for yourself and your kids.

    In my interactions with other cultures - African American, Native American, Latino, Poly - a stereotype of white people sometimes emerges. "Watch your wallet!" "Smooth talkers, you'll end up with less, they end up with more". In Hawai'i the conquering of the islands was from "missionaries, then merchants, and finally the Marines". Etc.

    Two of my sons worked a very short time in door to door security sales in Texas a couple of summers ago. My sons were coveted because they could open doors in the hood with their appearances. But the whole thing was extremely scammy, and the A-holes running this thing were bragging about fleecing the stupid people in the hood (I've sanitized the language), even around my sons, because "you two aren't really black".

    After a week, I flew my kids home, proud of them for confronting the predators & getting out of that sleazy operation. "Lesson learned: There are people and parts of America to avoid. Do what YOU can to dispel lingering racism, and don't let it defeat you".

    Shapiro's approach is confrontation & contrast, pumping up a specific view within his tribe. I've had better results acknowledging the past & current issues, but emphasizing progress and pointing to a brighter, achievable future.


    Here's the nut I'm having a harder time cracking - our economic system increasingly rewards not effort, but results. In the Information Age, this is the sequel to "Revenge of the Nerds", but the results are dramatically different economic outcomes (salaries & wealth), based on noodle power.

    In WWII, in the Space Race, we as a people could embrace and support our "best and brightest", as it meant success as a nation from a specific threat from other nations. Today if I bring in a "free agent", an IT version of Kevin Durrant, the salary discrepancy is tough for those who've been loyal, been working their butts off, really good people.

    The Space Race and WWII were won, they were tangible targets to achieve and celebrate. The drive for organizations to excel today - or at least not be left behind - means salary competition for the "best and brightest", and there's no end in sight. It's an ongoing, corrosive mix.

    The real irony is a large segment of Trump's base are at heart good people, "steady Eddies", who are looking for him to create equality of outcome... for them. Hence the rhetoric against Amazon, "trade wars are good and easy to win", etc. The enemy often isn't another country - it's our fellow Americans.
    You’re describing a lot of the chaff, and it’s pretty depressing chaff. But it is the chaff. Washington was a great man, despite the chaff in his life (owning slaves). Same with Lincoln, TR, FDR, JFK, Reagan. We’d all be worse off today without them. On the other hand, Confederate heroes are mostly chaff, IMO. Any statues of them belong in museums. And so on. America is a great country with many warts. The beauty of our nation is that it is based on a great, aspirational idea (see the Declaration of Independence), and it is capable of changing and improving, and of moving ever closer to fulfilling its potential and living up to that idea. Saying the USA and its history are awful misses the point of our existence as a nation.

    Deposit $.02!

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I think you’re throwing out the baby with a tiny bit of bath water. Shapiro’s hard to take sometimes but the “arsonist” bit was just a figure of speech. The parts I quoted were his good points. For example:



    What’s to disagree with there?

    The J.J. McCullough piece you link closed with this:



    I liked the piece, which I found thought-provoking, but I think the above is a silly bit of reductive thinking. Awful, IMO. I’m not a teacher but if he were a student in my composition class I’d give him an F and make him re-write his piece.
    I guess I should read both articles, and maybe I'll get around to it, but my gut response is that while self-flagellation is harmful, and we need to remember all of the good, you at least have to acknowledge all of those negatives and understand how they may affect our current thinking. Too many people won't even acknowledge those dark parts of the past, and consider you unpatriotic if you do.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    I guess I should read both articles, and maybe I'll get around to it, but my gut response is that while self-flagellation is harmful, and we need to remember all of the good, you at least have to acknowledge all of those negatives and understand how they may affect our current thinking. Too many people won't even acknowledge those dark parts of the past, and consider you unpatriotic if you do.
    Totally agree. I have no problem reading and acknowledging the ugly parts of the past. We're human beings, some crazy stuff has happened. But as LA pointed out, the ideals we've aspired to are enlightened, and through some tough spots, we've emerged in a better place. Truman integrated the military, got a lot of pushback in doing so, but look what that has done, for everyone involved.

    Even with our warts, the US has been the leader of the world (overall) in many different ways. The downtrodden, those looking to escape tyranny & persecution, have come here and added to our mosaic. DeToqueville and France saw it, gave us a massive statue that epitomizes the ideals we espouse with our acceptance of immigrants. (Cue Neil Diamond's "Coming to America")

    For some reason, some folks struggle with dealing with nuance and ambiguity. You're either great, or you're crap, and there can be no blending.

    But like the filmroom for a football team, I think you have to deal with reality and nuance, what actually happened. THEN you can figure out how best to move forward, better informed, striving to avoid mistakes and building upward.

  4. #4
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    An interesting duo teaming up: Neil Gorsuch and Sonia Sotomayor.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...orfeiture.html

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    An interesting duo teaming up: Neil Gorsuch and Sonia Sotomayor.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...orfeiture.html
    An incredibly easy case in which to form allegiances. How Indiana (and a bunch of other states too) didn't think that the 8th amendment applied to states is beyond me.

  6. #6
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    Rudy Guiliani accidentally tweeted a link.

    If you click on it, it is amazing.

    SFW


  7. #7
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    Aha. It turns out that with the way he wrote the tweet (with no space between the "G20." and the "In", Twitter tried to interpret it as a link. it initially went to a page that didn't exist, so someone bought the domain and put the page up.

  8. #8
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    It´s starting to look like this ¨deplatforming¨ tactic is not a left on right thing, but a far-left on everyone thing.

    The protesters, who were organized by the Los Angeles Community Action Network and the Los Angeles chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America, resorted to shouting over Garcetti so that he could not continue his speech — a tactic known as “deplatforming” that has been commonly employed against speakers deemed controversial by campus activists.

    As Garcetti tried to respond to each complaint individually, the protesters tried to drown him out by singing a revised rendition of “Santa Claus is Coming Town.”

    “You better watch out, you better not cry, Eric Garcetti is telling us lies, human rights violations happening now,” they sang.

    Garcetti tried to quiet the crowd by citing his first amendment rights, but was unsuccessful.“Do you respect 1st Amendment rights, do you?” Garcetti said to a one man who refused to listen to his response.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/news/...during-speech/




    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #9
    Just when you think things can't get any weirder... the National Enquirer makes a deal to tell all regarding payments and other activities related to Individual-1.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...=.d34cbd67904b

    I can't take anything the National Enquirer says seriously. But somebody has to be reading it, they're still in business... and apparently not on the President's side.

    Given their constituency - and that group's likely political orientation - this just might be the beginning of the end of the Enquirer. (I was always fonder of the "Weekly World News" - example headline: "Dinosaurs Still Roam the Earth!")
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 12-12-2018 at 09:12 PM.

  10. #10
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    I'm not sure the day will get any better than this today.

    twitter-nunes-yacht.png

  11. #11
    I watch too many foreign television shows on Netflix and Amazon for my own good. Most are made in countries that are our traditional allies, Australia, New Zealand, UK and Western Europe. I have noticed a trend in the last couple of years that is very interesting. Whenever the US is involved in the story line it is typically as an underhanded, greedy, cannot be trusted, bully who uses its power and influence to manipulate outcomes.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I watch too many foreign television shows on Netflix and Amazon for my own good. Most are made in countries that are our traditional allies, Australia, New Zealand, UK and Western Europe. I have noticed a trend in the last couple of years that is very interesting. Whenever the US is involved in the story line it is typically as an underhanded, greedy, cannot be trusted, bully who uses its power and influence to manipulate outcomes.
    The open admiration of authoritarian leaders gets lost in the news coverage here, but praising people like Kim and Duterte truly horrifies large swaths of the rest of the world.

  13. #13
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    The open admiration of authoritarian leaders gets lost in the news coverage here, but praising people like Kim and Duterte truly horrifies large swaths of the rest of the world.
    I'm not surprised if this depiction of the USA has gotten worse with Trump, but if you think it is a new phenomenon I think you are mistaken. The entire film-making world leans sharply left and the USA has been the stock bad guy for a long time. (This has been true even in American movies but that's another story.)

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #14
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    Trump fired National Security Advisor John Bolton.

  15. #15
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    Trump fired National Security Advisor John Bolton.
    The left hates Bolton. Will they now be sympathetic to him?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The left hates Bolton. Will they now be sympathetic to him?
    I will miss his mustache and experience, but that is about it (until Trump nominates someone worse).

  17. #17
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The left hates Bolton. Will they now be sympathetic to him?
    I doubt it.

    Although, the Sun Tzu quote of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" does come to mind.

    Still, it's hard to get past his war mongering.

  18. #18
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    It's as if our country is run by the editors of The Onion.

    The White House accidentally emailed its Ukraine talking points to Nancy Pelosi

    Here's a screenshot of the White House asking House Democrats to please disregard the talking points on Trump/Ukraine they just emailed

  19. #19
    "It is very natural for people to look at circumstances and see them in a light that's most amenable to their maintaining power and doing things to preserve their power."

    -- Senator Mitt Romney

    "People change their viewpoint based off of how it affects their party, their position of power, where we are today. I think that quote illuminates the motivations of pretty much everyone involved."

    -- Matt Canham, Salt Lake Tribune


    https://www.kued.org/whatson/the-hin...Ax6nh5vDBLUlEo

    An interesting discussion on KUED's The Hinckley Report.
    "It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant

  20. #20
    So, is there a timeline for this impeachment business? I'd love it to be successful for a number of reasons.

  21. #21
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    We should sue.


  22. #22
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    The Onion is back on point.

    https://politics.theonion.com/gop-la...-of-1838885386

    “After I watched the president slowly and methodically squeeze the life out of my wife’s body as she gasped, futilely, for breath, he gave me his personal assurance that he was not responsible for her death, so I continue to stand by this administration,” said Rep. Scott DesJarlais (R-TN),

  23. #23
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    Well, at least there is common ground.


  24. #24
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    I suspect there will be more agreement here on this subject.

    Growing number of U.S. children not vaccinated against any disease

    An estimated 100,000 young children have not had a vaccination against any of the 14 diseases for which shots are recommended, according to a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report released Thursday.

    “This is pretty concerning. It’s something we need to understand better — and reduce,” said the CDC’s Dr. Amanda Cohn.

    Most young children — 70 percent — have had all their shots. The new estimate is based on finding that, in 2017, 1.3 percent of the children born in 2015 were completely unvaccinated. That’s up from the 0.9 percent seen in an earlier similar assessment of the kids born in 2011. A 2001 survey with a different methodology suggested the proportion was in the neighborhood of 0.3 percent.

    Young children are especially vulnerable to complications from vaccine-preventable diseases, some of which can be fatal.
    I think the people who refuse to vaccinate their children are endangering their own kids, as well as their kids’ friends. Among other things, it’s my understanding that failing to vaccinate creates opportunities for diseases once thought eradicated to return to the population.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #25
    Five-O Diehard Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    4,894
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I suspect there will be more agreement here on this subject.

    Growing number of U.S. children not vaccinated against any disease



    I think the people who refuse to vaccinate their children are endangering their own kids, as well as their kids’ friends. Among other things, it’s my understanding that failing to vaccinate creates opportunities for diseases once thought eradicated to return to the population.
    It’s already happening.

    When my daughter was born at the U 2 months ago we appreciated their restrictions which made anyone who couldn’t show a current TDaP vaccine wear a mask anywhere on the unit.

    Whooping cough is becoming a big problem. Especially in Utah county


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    It’s already happening.

    When my daughter was born at the U 2 months ago we appreciated their restrictions which made anyone who couldn’t show a current TDaP vaccine wear a mask anywhere on the unit.

    Whooping cough is becoming a big problem. Especially in Utah county


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yep. Ban them from public schools.

  27. #27
    A woman in my neighborhood had polio as a child. Nicest person on earth, her physical quality of life is seriously compromised. I wish she could meet all these anti-vaccinators.

    We forget what these diseases the immunizations prevent used to do.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  28. #28
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    Anti-vaxxers drive me nuts.

    anti-vaxxer.JPG

  29. #29
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    I’m not big on gun rights, but this seems silly to me. Virtue-signaling much more than policy.

    LA Passes Ordinance Requiring City Contractors To Disclose NRA Ties

    https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018...yA6-eASWeUdudA

    My city is trying to play catch-up with San Francisco, which is doing the same regarding Berkeley.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I’m not big on gun rights, but this seems silly to me. Virtue-signaling much more than policy.

    LA Passes Ordinance Requiring City Contractors To Disclose NRA Ties

    https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018...yA6-eASWeUdudA

    My city is trying to play catch-up with San Francisco, which is doing the same regarding Berkeley.
    We are wrong to care about politics as much as we do. It's crazy how many people are unable to work, play, and/or associate with people who believe differently.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •