This is why America is a great country. We can agree to disagree. Political impact, to me, is remediable and quote different from cultural impact. Millions of babies/fetuses (choose your preferred term) have been aborted because of Roe. What "marriage" means has been changed forever because of Obergefell. I think those changes would have come anyway, with time, but they should have come via our democratic processes, for many reasons. But I get your point.Originally Posted by concerned
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I don't remember the federalist papers stating that republicans should worry about losing the Court but democrats have nothing to fear if they lose the Court. Admittedly, it's been awhile since I read it so it might be there.
Oh, yeah? Well, I don't think progressives have any principles at all. So there!
I have a hunch neither of us is going to convince the other.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
This is purely anecdotal but if my facebook feed is any indicator of how society in general feels by the relentless memes people post...
(And I post this simply because for the past few years I've heard many people -myself included- write with absolute certainty that there was no chance Trump could win or keep winning - with lots of data to back that up. I also heard with the same conviction about the certain death of the GOP and also now the death of the GOP among anybody but only the worst kinds of sexist, racist pigs.)
But, surprisingly WOMEN I know are posting conservative memes at a rapid pace. Most of these women are white and middle class, but that have been surprising how vocal. For liberal memes, that is primarily being posted by millennial-aged over-privileged white men who spend their days playing video games and arguing with each other online.
Certainly my circle of friends and relatives is not at all representative of people in our country, but I have found that observation a little surprising and very backwards from what I would have assumed.
Now among my circle of people I associate with in person, most women seemed pretty repulsed by Donald Trump, even among those who also had major distaste for HRC. Most men I know in person remain largely silent about it all.
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I believe you. There was an Atlantic article on abortion yesterday with a title that said something about democrats overplaying their hand. I think that's true on many issues. Certain aspects of the democrat platform resonate with most people, but they are unwilling to say/do anything against the extreme viewpoints that seem clearly wrong to most people. Abortion, race, insane SJW tweets, etc. Some of it is so over the top that it taints the entire party.
If conservatives are unfairly judged to be bigots based on their extreme fringe members, then liberals are probably unfairly judged to be idiots based on their extreme fringe members. Very few members of either party ever take a stand against the wrong ideas at the extremes.
I feel like a very different kind of voter in that I care about the person more than the platform. It frustrates me that people are willing to support someone like President Trump just because he will push a certain agenda. I feel like that attitude will cost us all in the long term.
So...yeah. I think democrats could blow this thing. George Will had a recent headline (behind a paywall, so I didn't read it) about how only democrats can cost themselves the 2020 election.
Who would you have voted for if California was up for grabs in 2016? If Trump, would that have made you a Trump follower?
It would have made me a nauseated realist.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
an unhappy follower?
Do you think voting for a candidate makes the voter a follower of the candidate? If so, what does "follower" mean to you?
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I guess I was just defining it in that way, yes. I think that you maybe interpreted it to mean more, like a disciple or something. That's why you read something sinister into the word when I used it yesterday even though I didn't intend what you thought I did.
Look, I have been politically apathetic most of my life. I care about issues, but I can see both sides on most issues. I can't really see both sides on Trump. I can only see people who would vote for anything or anyone as long as it's not something or someone from the opposite political party.
Trouble in progressive paradise.
New York Governor Cuomo blasts AOC and left-wing Democrats for 'putting political interests above community' and driving away Amazon - despite polls showing most people supported tech giant's new HQ
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-New-York.html
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I don't think you guys are being fair. But the Sandmann kid might sue. I hope he doesn't -- this thing needs to die, but that would enable a full record to be developed.
Here's what that right-wing rag, the Washington post, reported the story.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.2da8e00f8c3a
I think Phillips, the guy who was beating the drum, deserves more skpeticism than the kids. The guy has claimed he served in Vietnam but he never did. Big credibility shot right there.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I've seen a lot of video and I've yet to see a single shred of video or audio evidence that he was disrespecting, antagonizing or impeding Phillips. This kid comes out smelling like a rose IMO. I know nothing about libel/slander law (or any law for that matter), but, if the evidence is as it appears, I hope the kid cleans up.
“Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman
"You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb
"Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.
Follow-up to concerned’s question about the principled conservative position on the border wall emergency order:
BBF250F8-6390-4C35-8CE6-FE3CFC83E56B.jpg
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Another thing to consider regarding the taint of Trump is the reality of how people get elected and why a group as a whole does not necessarily reflect the will of the people with its parts and Utah is a stark example of this.
Ask just about anyone in Utah and they'll agree that the super-majority we have here is not particularly healthy and that frequently the state legislature acts in a way that they aren't pleased with or is more extreme than their personal views. If you don't believe that see how we voted on medical marijuana and expanded Medicaid, and how most people feel about local liquor laws. Yet when it comes down to who our citizens have to vote for individually they'll continue to vote for the conservative neighbor they know, versus the democrat candidate, keeping that issue rolling.
The same happens on a national scale. Poll the people of Utah or any state on whether they are happy with what congress is doing and the disapproval is dramatic - they are routinely hated. Poll the constituents on their individual congresspeople and you'll typically get a favorable approval rating.
So while the state of Utah is down on Trump and upset with congress, they'll continue to support Mike and Mitt, Stewart, Bishop, Curtis and McAdams. Mike Lee and Chris Stewart have been pretty repugnant when it comes to how they've aligned with Trump in my opinion - yet they will be unscathed even if Trump turns out to be the dark lord himself.
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Yes, no taint is powerful enough to overcome belonging to a political party. Most folks belong to a party for life, and nothing will convince them to change. For a while, I hoped Utahns' religious principles would be strong enough to overcome their political principles, but I was wrong. It was a disappointing realization.
Best healthcare plan I ever had got nixed by Obamacare. High deductible plan coupled with an HSA. $10k deductible by low ultilizers like us were able to sock away a ton of cash that rolled over.
Now I have a $13.5k deductible, no HSA, and costs about 3x what I used to pay. Good news though, preventive care visits once a year are "free" and if we decide to have kids again, a medical wonder, that'll also be covered.
I'll take my $7000 a year back thank you.
All complaining aside, that sort of plan really was a good way to reduce healthcare costs. We had incentive to ask for alternative treatments, generic prescriptions and be overall healthier and better utilizers. The payoff was the money we saved in an HSA could earn interest and be applied to our retirement.
I've been critical of Obamacare in the sense that it did little to improve healthcare utilization nor reward healthy living. I think that is a core component to any legit healthcare reform, and a key way to do that in my estimation is to have people feel the real cost of care, something most of us are shielded from.
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The Healthy Americans Act. This is a the best idea that got nowhere. It was a truly bipartisan bill. Bob Bennett told me that the Obama White House came to him and Wyden and wanted to support their bill, but for political reasons the “public option” insurance concept must be added. Bennett refused because he knew he’d lose all his GOP co-sponsors if he added a government health insurance entity that would compete with private companies. Eventually the pubic option was removed from the bill that became Obamacare. Oh well, that’s how history sometimes takes weird turns.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_Americans_Act
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Working at a place where I see so, so many people who are suffering, some because of poor life style choices or a lack of knowledge of their own genetics that might have motivated them to head off what they're struggling with now... I've become much more of a health fanatic than I ever imagined I would be.
And I'm fortunate to be exposed to some of the latest research on diet, exercise, and other health practices, with MDs and PhDs in the field as colleagues who are similarly motivated to avoid problems that can be navigated around. Many colleagues are from nations where treatments or prevention have been followed for thousands of years. Example: the spices Indians have in their daily lives are thought to be a major reason India has low rates of Alzheimers.
Easily, 25% of US healthcare costs could be shaved off by better lifestyle choices. Sodas are 21st century cigarettes, many people eat horrible food, we largely ignore wisdom from the East that can make a big difference. Much of the poor lifestyle choices are a result of economic inequality.McDonalds, KFC, Taco Bell, pizza are toxic "comfort foods".People in many poorer countries lead happier, healthier lives even though they don't have access to high quality healthcare, in large part because they have "hope", they're not driven to medicate themselves with crappy diets or poisons, stress that originates with striving to keep up with the Joneses or dealing with a job that treats them like they're expendable.
One guy at our work is a solid, blue collar employee who never calls in sick, has been with us for a couple of years. He used to work at a potato chip factory across town where the policy was no vacations between Memorial Day & Labor Day. "But that's the time of year our kids aren't in school". Answer: "If you don't like it, get another job". He finally did, "hit the jackpot" and is doing menial work tasks for us. He's a great guy, but is a good example of how the genetic / upbringing lottery is largely cruel. He knows that MRI, CT scans, PET and other types of Radiology are "cameras looking into your body" but otherwise, investing in lots of education in him is not going to result in somebody producing keen insights. This doesn't mean he's "expendable".
We plateaued on increasing life expectancies and have gone down a couple of years in a row due in large part from opioids, which are an escape. The fast food places have experimented with healthier menus, but people crave the comfort food that helps relieve their stress from the day, the same food that sends them to hospitals years or decades later for expensive and often futile treatments.
In healthcare we often see the end product of a culmination of low scores on the genetic lottery, raised in dysfunctional homes & neighborhoods, crappy & turbulent jobs, and lots of self medicating through bad diet, escaping the day on the couch, smoking, drinking, drugs, etc.
Taking a holistic view of what constitutes good health, we're going to have very expensive healthcare for the foreseeable future.
This is a bit heated but she does make a point:
“Does anyone think that either one of these jokers, Northam or Herring, would be accorded any courtesy by the media if they were Republicans. No. There would be special theme songs on cable and network news, there would be special graphics, there would be people interviewing every person that ever went to school with these blackfacers. They would be parked outside their residences, following relatives around, going through trash, confrontations by angry activists captured on video, think of the Kavanaugh confirmation hearing as a paradigm. Why aren’t we seeing this?”
https://pjmedia.com/blog/liveblogeve.../entry-252696/
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
A factor that I think we are seeing with the media that should be considered and trumps (pun mostly intended) any discussion about 'liberal media bias' is that the media are smart people and also citizens of this nation. Just like all of us, they can see how toxic Trump really is and how important it will be to get him out of office, and so I do think there is an element of standing down a bit when it comes to opponents to Trump (and the party the associate with) and jumping on allies of Trump (and the party they associate with).
I'm not saying that is right, but I think it is reality that goes beyond simply 'bias'. Put yourself in those shoes and I think it is a force that even the most ethical and balanced journalist would wrestle with.
I have seen a fair amount of stuff--interviews with or quotes from classmates, yearbook editors, etc., especically now that the lt. gov.'s accuser has come forward. Part of the difference in intensity is that these are state officeholders, not a Supreme Court nominee during hearings. Also that Northam admitted it initially, as did the atty general, so there isn't the sleuthing to prove them liars as there was with Roy Moore or Kavenaugh (or Gary Hart or John Edwards or Jeff Bezos). We will see what happens with the Lt. gov. going forward.
Last edited by concerned; 02-07-2019 at 10:20 AM.
https://twitter.com/conservmillen/st...513114625?s=19
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"Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum
"And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla
For those outside the Trump core, wasn't the common call the need to entrench a conservative Supreme Court? LA, you've said the Court has become too important, so what prevented a vote based upon principle, other than Hillary's unlikability? What was she a threat to do?
If you were a conservative during the 2016 election, you were very worried about a 5-4 liberal majority on the Supreme Court. I don’t think liberals have quite the same level of worry. Roe v. Wade is safe, I think, and so major changes in the American way of life are not likely to occur with a conservative 5-4 majority. A liberal Supreme Court is, on the other hand, willing to make changes in the American way of life by virtue of a vote by single justice. I realize others may disagree strongly with me on this. Agree or not, that is the way the world looks to someone from a principled conservative point of view.
Last edited by LA Ute; 02-19-2019 at 09:35 AM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Roe v. Wade is safe? If someone like Kavenaugh succeeds RBG, it is likely gone, based on Kavenaugh's recent dissent. Safe until after the 2020 election, anyway, so that a reversal doesn't tip over the electoral apple cart.
What is the principled conservative viewpoint on the national emergency declaration?
of course, if RBG were to die next year, McConnell would apply the same conservative principle he applied to Scalia/Garland, and not entertain nominations so that the people could have a voice in the selection through the 2020 election.
Last edited by concerned; 02-19-2019 at 09:46 AM.
LOL. "Principled conservative point of view."
This a great post.
Your are right. A conservative majority would never make changes to the American way of life like Citizens United or Shelby.
There is always some kind of national emergency that justifies our bad politics (in both parties). The Trump presidency shows just how far people are willing to go to deny the other party a chance a leadership. We claim we'll just set aside our principles until we weather the "crisis," but I don't think principles can be easily picked up after being cast off.
You are right, because if they are cast off, they are no longer principles.
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