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Thread: Brett Kavenaugh Supreme Court Nomination

  1. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I think the opposition to Kavenaugh was cynical. Sen. Feinstein held on to Ms. Ford's allegations until the last minute. That raises lots of questions and enables lots of negative inferences about her intentions. To me there is a bad odor around the whole effort. I am skeptical that the lawyer and her team even cared whether what Ford had to say was true. They're lawyers, like you and me, and they knew (or should have known) her allegations were unprovable. It was an effort to damage Kavenaugh, and a low point in the history of the SCOTUS confirmation process. Again, I hope I would see it the same way if the political parties were reversed. I don't know if I would.
    "Negative inferences" about whose intentions? Feinstein's? Well, yes, she's a politician. About Mrs. Ford's? I don't see that.

  2. #332
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    "Negative inferences" about whose intentions? Feinstein's? Well, yes, she's a politician.About Mrs. Ford's? I don't see that.
    About Feinstein’s intentions. And if merely being a politician makes one immune from criticism for cynically publishing last-minute unprovable allegations of misconduct that are designed to destroy someone, then our body politic is really in for a bumpy ride.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #333
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    This is simply terrible. French breaks the latest news down well.

    The New York Times Still Doesn’t Understand What It Did

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...d-what-it-did/

    This is all symptomatic, IMO, of how out of kilter the SCOTUS’s importance and confirmation process is now. People on the left are talking about court-packing. Some of them orchestrated the false and frankly vicious character assassination of Kavanaugh in order to damage his legitimacy as a justice, and (I think) to let other potential Republican nominees know what will happen to them if they’re not deemed acceptable to the left. Future GOP presidents are on notice now too.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 09-17-2019 at 12:44 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This is simply terrible. French breaks the latest news down well.

    The New York Times Still Doesn’t Understand What It Did


    https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...d-what-it-did/

    This is all symptomatic, IMO, of how out of kilter the SCOTUS’s importance and confirmation process is now. People on the left are talking about court-packing. Some of them orchestrated the false and frankly vicious character assassination of Kavanaugh in order to damage his legitimacy as a justice, and (I think) to let other potential Republican nominees know what will happen to them if they’re not deemed acceptable to the left. Future GOP presidents are on notice now too.
    I said it at the time, and I still believe it: the GOP should have just ditched him when the allegations arose and gone with the next conservative justice on the list. Maybe that would not have been fair to him, but it would have been a lot easier. And it would have achieved what they really care about.

  5. #335
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I said it at the time, and I still believe it: the GOP should have just ditched him when the allegations arose and gone with the next conservative justice on the list. Maybe that would not have been fair to him, but it would have been a lot easier. And it would have achieved what they really care about.
    If they'd done that they'd have set a terrible precedent. Any future nominee would be subject to unprovable 30 year-old allegations of misbehavior of the most lurid kind, and that would be all that was needed to derail the nomination.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    "Negative inferences" about whose intentions? Feinstein's? Well, yes, she's a politician. About Mrs. Ford's? I don't see that.
    While I am one who said that I thought that Ford seemed credible in her testimony, after seeing some post remarks by her attorneys and the fact that more and more seems to come out that weakens her accusation - at the end of the day in this case you have to judge by what evidence is out there. Right now, there is zero corroboration of her accusation from other witness who were purportedly there. And in the other accusation the victim themself can't corroborated the accusation. You can't destroy a person's life over that, particularly if we really believe in "innocent until proven guilty." That's just solely on the evidence presented.

    Sadly if these things did indeed happen I feel very badly for these women. If nothing else the lesson that maybe we need to learn is that for women and young girls who are actually assaulted is we need to encourage them to report as soon as they can and we need to give them better avenues to do so. Far too many women get buried through the fear and intimidation and an underlying notion that they won't be believed. Even if they are not at the time, some day someone else may be assaulted by that same person and your past accusation may help catch them.

    The whole thing is just sad and brings up sad feelings I have for women I know who have been assaulted and ignored.


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  7. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    If they'd done that they'd have set a terrible precedent. Any future nominee would be subject to unprovable 30 year-old allegations of misbehavior of the most lurid kind, and that would be all that was needed to derail the nomination.
    I think you're mistaken if you believe that the days of 30 year-old allegations of misbehavior are gone simply because they pushed Kavenaugh through. I think replacing him would have been a political win for conservatives, especially if they had replaced him with a woman. There's certainly nothing special about him that can't be found in 100 other judges.

  8. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    .....I think replacing him would have been a political win for conservatives, especially if they had replaced him with a woman. There's certainly nothing special about him that can't be found in 100 other judges.
    Hot take. But, just as nutty as when you claimed "Kalani was an upgrade from the start" (to Bronco).

    LA's right. You don't cave. No way.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  9. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    While I am one who said that I thought that Ford seemed credible in her testimony, after seeing some post remarks by her attorneys and the fact that more and more seems to come out that weakens her accusation - at the end of the day in this case you have to judge by what evidence is out there. Right now, there is zero corroboration of her accusation from other witness who were purportedly there. And in the other accusation the victim themself can't corroborated the accusation. You can't destroy a person's life over that, particularly if we really believe in "innocent until proven guilty." That's just solely on the evidence presented.

    Sadly if these things did indeed happen I feel very badly for these women. If nothing else the lesson that maybe we need to learn is that for women and young girls who are actually assaulted is we need to encourage them to report as soon as they can and we need to give them better avenues to do so. Far too many women get buried through the fear and intimidation and an underlying notion that they won't be believed. Even if they are not at the time, some day someone else may be assaulted by that same person and your past accusation may help catch them.

    The whole thing is just sad and brings up sad feelings I have for women I know who have been assaulted and ignored.


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    What evidence has come out that "weakens her accusations?" And the attorney thing is a big thing with the Fox News crowd, but all she was saying is that the Scotus nomination is what brought Mrs ford to speak up, not that it was made up. Frankly, I think the video LAUte posted of the attorney is evidence of nothing.

    Now I think that reasonable people can disagree about this issue. Some people think she is a lying liberal and others think he is a sex-crazed conservative. I think there is evidence for both viewpoints. I am just wondering why you thought she sounded credible before, but now you have changed your opinion.

  10. #340
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    What evidence has come out that "weakens her accusations?"
    This is from a conservative website but it's straight info that has appeared elsewhere. I don't have time right now to hunt down more. It's a good summary.

    https://hotair.com/archives/ed-morri...ess-tampering/

    As a lawyer you know the difference between a story that will hold up under scrutiny and one that won't. Blasey Ford's won't.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    Hot take. But, just as nutty as when you claimed "Kalani was an upgrade from the start" (to Bronco).

    LA's right. You don't cave. No way.
    If you do it immediately, it's not caving. It's principle. I agree that once you've dug in hard, you can't back out. But if they had just Al Franken'd that guy, they'd have a conservative judge right now without the controversy.

    In 10 years, Bronco managed only a couple of wins against P5 teams that finished in the top 25. I still feel pretty good about Kalani matching that total in 10 seasons, despite the fact that Kalani has been handicapped by independence while Bronco had most of his seasons in the MWC (I don't think Bronco beat any top 25 teams as an independent).

  12. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    What evidence has come out that "weakens her accusations?" And the attorney thing is a big thing with the Fox News crowd, but all she was saying is that the Scotus nomination is what brought Mrs ford to speak up, not that it was made up. Frankly, I think the video LAUte posted of the attorney is evidence of nothing.

    Now I think that reasonable people can disagree about this issue. Some people think she is a lying liberal and others think he is a sex-crazed conservative. I think there is evidence for both viewpoints. I am just wondering why you thought she sounded credible before, but now you have changed your opinion.
    I'm not saying her testimony didn't sound credible, I'm saying that for all the people that would be involved to corroborate her stories they are non-existent, including her key witness and friend which I agree is the true story of the NYTimes article. Sadly, if these things did actually happen, given the evidence and testimony we have there is really no legitimate way to come after Kavanaugh. Now there are claims of witness tampering with CBS. Those things coupled with her attorney saying basically they wanted to brand Kavanaugh forever is just not a good look.

    But really my point in all of this isn't to say that I think Kavanaugh has been exonerated, or that Ford was lying - but rather the lesson hopefully learned today is the importance for women to report these incidents, even if they don't think they will believed and even if they aren't believed. Also, the importance for people to believe women when they do report.

  13. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    If you do it immediately, it's not caving. It's principle. I agree that once you've dug in hard, you can't back out. But if they had just Al Franken'd that guy, they'd have a conservative judge right now without the controversy.

    In 10 years, Bronco managed only a couple of wins against P5 teams that finished in the top 25. I still feel pretty good about Kalani matching that total in 10 seasons, despite the fact that Kalani has been handicapped by independence while Bronco had most of his seasons in the MWC (I don't think Bronco beat any top 25 teams as an independent).
    Well hold on one second. We must not forget that Feinstein intentionally sat on this info until zero hour of Kavanaugh's nomination. It was a politically calculated (and truly deplorable) move by her with little consideration for the potential victims in this case. So, if by 'immediately' you mean 'after all the hearings, and all the vetting and all the meetings with the senators where they were finally set to vote...' I don't agree. If this came up immediately after he was nominated by Trump - then yes perhaps you have a point.

  14. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Well hold on one second. We must not forget that Feinstein intentionally sat on this info until zero hour of Kavanaugh's nomination. It was a politically calculated (and truly deplorable) move by her with little consideration for the potential victims in this case. So, if by 'immediately' you mean 'after all the hearings, and all the vetting and all the meetings with the senators where they were finally set to vote...' I don't agree. If this came up immediately after he was nominated by Trump - then yes perhaps you have a point.
    By immediately, I mean right after Feinstein brought it out. Like, within a few days. I am not saying this based on principle. Like all of you, I believe in "innocent until proven guilty". I just think moving on was their best strategic move. Clearly the strategy they took both worked in a sense and also failed in a sense and will possibly still haunt them in the future.

  15. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This is from a conservative website but it's straight info that has appeared elsewhere. I don't have time right now to hunt down more. It's a good summary.

    https://hotair.com/archives/ed-morri...ess-tampering/

    As a lawyer you know the difference between a story that will hold up under scrutiny and one that won't. Blasey Ford's won't.
    Uh...great story. What is that website? I hope you don't get your news from that site. Very fair and balanced.

    I'm not going to pursue this any more because I just don't care enough. But those that claim it's obvious that Ford was lying are kidding themselves; similarly, those that claim kavanaugh is lying
    are kidding themselves. I don't think anything should have been done regarding Ford, either at the confirmation of kavanaugh or now. Nothing was proven either way. But it is interesting to see people fall over themselves to prove that the bad guys were lying.

  16. #346
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Brett Kavenaugh Supreme Court Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Uh...great story. What is that website? I hope you don't get your news from that site. Very fair and balanced.
    Before dismissing what is already widely known as a significant and fact-supported story, you needed to read the links to CBS News. Some snips:






    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  17. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Before dismissing what is already widely known as a significant and fact-supported story, you needed to read the links to CBS News. Some snips:





    I went to read the article and tweet myself.

    Her tweet has a link to the CBS story from two days ago, and neither of your screen shots are in that story that I can find, even using the search feature for keywords.

    Where did you get them?





    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  18. #348
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    I went to read the article and tweet myself.

    Her tweet has a link to the CBS story from two days ago, and neither of your screen shots are in that story that I can find, even using the search feature for keywords.

    Where did you get them?
    Those were snips from other posts. I was trying to be quick. The key items are here:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/...IhCI88UyVrS6c0

    David French is a conservative writer, a lawyer, who dislikes Trump and really is fair. Just look at the information he quotes and the sources he cites. If people here don't find that information at least somewhat disturbing, I don't know what else to say (and I probably won't say anything).

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  19. #349
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

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