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Thread: Brett Kavenaugh Supreme Court Nomination

  1. #301
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I'm not sure this is true. Without the college, a democrat would fight for votes in Utah. A republican would definitely fight for votes in California. With the college, it's a pure waste of time, money, and energy.

    I suppose the main purpose of the college now is to separate the states into voting blocks. Without it, you wouldn't think of campaigning in Utah or California at all. You'd think of campaigning in America. You might target the west or target Hispanics or target people who love football or whatever. But there'd be no point in targeting a specific state.
    Federalism. The states matter. Just how much they matter has been a subject of hot debate since 1787.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Federalism. The states matter. Just how much they matter has been a subject of hot debate since 1787.
    Sure, I'm all for a Senate and a House. States matter. That's a compromise that makes sense.

    The electoral college may have started as some kind of compromise, but it is no longer serving that purpose. Or, if it is, no one is able to articulate what it is a compromise between.

    Fortunately, the popular vote and the college almost always align. It's unfortunate that we have the person we do as president, but the college is only partially responsible for that.

  3. #303
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Pretty decent summary here:

    The Electoral College: Top 3 Pros and Cons

    Here's a pro-Electoral College video:



    Ane here's a "con" video, but I couldn't embed it because I reached the limit of my free visits to the LA Times:

    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...216-story.html

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #304
    It is hard to imagine the founding fathers doing a similar system with the tech we have today.

    If we really wanted people to get out and vote we'd follow the science that Vegas has figured out long ago and give the people the belief they have a fighting chance with their vote. That only comes with a straight popular vote. Want proof? Voter turnout in Utah is among the worst in the nation. It isn't because you have people who aren't civically responsible or patriotic people (in fact quite the opposite) but because whether you are a Republican or a Democrat you pretty much know how the elections are going to go national and locally.


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  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Pretty decent summary here:

    The Electoral College: Top 3 Pros and Cons

    Here's a pro-Electoral College video:



    Ane here's a "con" video, but I couldn't embed it because I reached the limit of my free visits to the LA Times:

    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...216-story.html
    I watched 1 minute of that video and it is 1 minute of my life that I want back. It is an anti-NPV (what's that?) commercial. I am not a part of the "secretive, backroom" NPV movement. I just think the electoral college is bad, regardless of if you value states' rights, whether you think corn-states should have more votes than porn-states (tm pending), or whatever.

    Unless you vote in Ohio or Florida, the electoral college hurts our democracy.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Federalism. The states matter. Just how much they matter has been a subject of hot debate since 1787.
    Isn't that the real question now? How important should states as units be on the national level? The world is much different than it was in the late 1700's. Does the importance of states mean you have 50 elite power groups with a disproportionate say on a national level when we are now so interconnected? If you combined California, New York, Texas, Florida and Illinois, I bet you'd have a very diverse group that fairly represented the country.

  7. #307
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    I watched 1 minute of that video and it is 1 minute of my life that I want back. It is an anti-NPV (what's that?) commercial. I am not a part of the "secretive, backroom" NPV movement. I just think the electoral college is bad, regardless of if you value states' rights, whether you think corn-states should have more votes than porn-states (tm pending), or whatever.

    Unless you vote in Ohio or Florida, the electoral college hurts our democracy.
    You should have watched the second video too. I was just trying to show both sides.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #308
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    A Kavanaugh Accuser Recants

    False statements should be prosecuted to deter future smears.


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #309
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Washington Post -- look what section they published this in. Not sure this was a slam but it sure looks like one.


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #310
    Why is it even a story?

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    Why is it even a story?
    No idea. (A) The story itself is dumb (SCOTUS justice continues to coach basketball?) and (B) the idea that far right conservatives (ahem) have that this proves that the liberal lamestream media is ruining the country is even dumber.

  12. #312
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    ... the idea that far right conservatives (ahem) have that this proves that the liberal lamestream media is ruining the country is even dumber.
    Nah. The WaPO often just makes stupid decisions about what to publish and how, when the subject stems from the Trump circus. I can't stand Trump but I am not blinded by Trump hatred, like some of the WaPo folks seem to be.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  13. #313
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Because there’s no jurisdiction.

    Federal Panel Of Judges Dismisses All 83 Ethics Complaints Against Brett Kavanaugh

    https://www.npr.org/2018/12/18/67800...rett-kavanaugh

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #314
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Another Kavanaugh accuser admits to fabricating rape story

    https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2...icating-rape-/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #315
    I'm gonna just put this here.

    This is unbelievable. The accused Lt Gov from VA (D), is using the same legal team as Kavanagh, and the accuser, a professor from Scripps, is using the same legal team as Professor Ford.

    And in another crazy twist, if the VA governor and AG resign, that only leaves Fairfax between the Governors seat and the conservative VA House Speaker. There is probably a way out, but, the dems could be in a real pickle here.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/06/u...n-fairfax.html
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

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  16. #316
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    One of christine Blasey Ford’s lawyers makes her client’s intentions clear.

    https://youtu.be/8jyi3kVAOoM

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    One of christine Blasey Ford’s lawyers makes her client’s intentions clear.

    https://youtu.be/8jyi3kVAOoM
    I don't believe her intentions were ever unclear.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I don't believe her intentions were ever unclear.
    Not to get in an argument, but are you suggesting it is clear she was making the whole thing up? I think that is unclear who was telling the truth throughout that whole saga, but similarly it wasn't apparent to me who was lying. (someone obviously was unless you subscribe to the she-remembered-a-sexual assault or the he-forgot-that-he-had-sexually-assaulted theories, which I don't).

    The only way I can see to call it one way or the other is on pure partisanship.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    pure partisanship.
    Pure partisanship is the fuel that runs most dialogue in this world. Speaking of pure partisanship, it makes me sick to hear the so-called Ute fans online say that they will be rooting for BYU in Knoxville this weekend. That's crap. Here's to the Volunteers taking out all their Georgia So. frustrations on Zach Wilson and co.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Pure partisanship is the fuel that runs most dialogue in this world. Speaking of pure partisanship, it makes me sick to hear the so-called Ute fans online say that they will be rooting for BYU in Knoxville this weekend. That's crap. Here's to the Volunteers taking out all their Georgia So. frustrations on Zach Wilson and co.
    Amen... also I put a wager on Tennessee
    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

  21. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Pure partisanship is the fuel that runs most dialogue in this world. Speaking of pure partisanship, it makes me sick to hear the so-called Ute fans online say that they will be rooting for BYU in Knoxville this weekend. That's crap. Here's to the Volunteers taking out all their Georgia So. frustrations on Zach Wilson and co.
    Gross> Who is saying such things (SU, you receive a family exception)?!?!?! Probably twitter.

  22. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Gross> Who is saying such things (SU, you receive a family exception)?!?!?! Probably twitter.
    Sigh, yes, Twitter. I don't even follow these people. I follow some sports writers, 4 Utah fans, the NYT, the WaPost, and the Atlantic. Plus a few co-workers. Somehow Twitter still manages to show me all its filth.

  23. #323
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Pure partisanship is the fuel that runs most dialogue in this world. Speaking of pure partisanship, it makes me sick to hear the so-called Ute fans online say that they will be rooting for BYU in Knoxville this weekend. That's crap. Here's to the Volunteers taking out all their Georgia So. frustrations on Zach Wilson and co.

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  24. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Gross> Who is saying such things (SU, you receive a family exception)?!?!?! Probably twitter.
    I find it almost impossible to actively root for BYU in any situation. But while my heart prevents that, my head says that seeing one of our non-conference opponents beat an SEC team may be helpful to our strength of schedule. When you have Northern Illinois and Idaho State as your only other non-conference opponents, it might end up being helpful to be able to point to beating BYU as a quality win.

    However, when BYU plays USC and Washington it won't matter to us who wins since since we play all of those teams. Go PAC 12 in those games.
    People who wear glasses/contacts are not allowed to celbrqte the rear 2020. Go eat some carrots or get LASIK.

  25. #325
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Not to get in an argument, but are you suggesting it is clear she was making the whole thing up? I think that is unclear who was telling the truth throughout that whole saga, but similarly it wasn't apparent to me who was lying. (someone obviously was unless you subscribe to the she-remembered-a-sexual assault or the he-forgot-that-he-had-sexually-assaulted theories, which I don't).

    The only way I can see to call it one way or the other is on pure partisanship.
    It seemed to me that she thought she was telling the truth. It also seemed to me that there is no substantial evidence that she actually was telling the truth.

    I agree with you on one point. My guess is that people line up on this question along partisan lines, almost 100%. My own view, admittedly colored by my partisanship, is that this Ford lawyer‘s comments make it clear that her team’s goal was to damage Kavanaugh as much as possible, even if they could not keep him off the Court. I also don’t believe that the folks who were assisting Ms. Ford in this situation cared whether she was telling the truth. She was simply useful to them.

    To me that is despicable. I hope I would see it the same way if the political parties were reversed, but I honestly can’t say for sure that I would. I simply hope I would.

    I also think there’s much more to this story than simply the individual situation Justice Kavanaugh found himself in. To me it’s too bad that the Supreme Court has become such an important political instrument. I think the blame for that lies squarely on judicial progressives, beginning with the Warren Court, and coming to a head with the Roe v. Wade decision. Historians will be debating that for the next century or two. Without that historical predicate, we would not be seeing the pitched and vicious battles over every nominee that we see now. The Supreme Court has become far more important than it should be in setting national policy.

    I know, I know, not everyone sees it that way. But I do.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  26. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    To me that is despicable.
    So do I, but from the outside, it looks like that's how the law usually works.

  27. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    I find it almost impossible to actively root for BYU in any situation. But while my heart prevents that, my head says that seeing one of our non-conference opponents beat an SEC team may be helpful to our strength of schedule. When you have Northern Illinois and Idaho State as your only other non-conference opponents, it might end up being helpful to be able to point to beating BYU as a quality win.

    However, when BYU plays USC and Washington it won't matter to us who wins since since we play all of those teams. Go PAC 12 in those games.
    SOS will probably not matter much for us this season. If we happen to pull off the miracle and go 12-0 or 11-1, there's already an established pecking order that the BYU/Tennessee game will not impact in any meaningful way. So root with your heart.

  28. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    It seemed to me that she thought she was telling the truth. It also seemed to me that there is no substantial evidence that she actually was telling the truth.

    I agree with you on one point. My guess is that people line up on this question along partisan lines, almost 100%. My own view, admittedly colored by my partisanship, is that this Ford lawyer‘s comments make it clear that her team’s goal was to damage Kavanaugh as much as possible, even if they could not keep him off the Court. I also don’t believe that the folks who were assisting Ms. Ford in this situation cared whether she was telling the truth. She was simply useful to them.

    To me that is despicable. I hope I would see it the same way if the political parties were reversed, but I honestly can’t say for sure that I would. I simply hope I would.

    I also think there’s much more to this story than simply the individual situation Justice Kavanaugh found himself in. To me it’s too bad that the Supreme Court has become such an important political instrument. I think the blame for that lies squarely on judicial progressives, beginning with the Warren Court, and coming to a head with the Roe v. Wade decision. Historians will be debating that for the next century or two. Without that historical predicate, we would not be seeing the pitched and vicious battles over every nominee that we see now. The Supreme Court has become far more important than it should be in setting national policy.

    I know, I know, not everyone sees it that way. But I do.
    Agreed on most points. But do you think that lawyers statement says anything at all about who is telling the truth? She's saying that the implications of nominating kavanaugh were so dire (in her clients eyes) that she had to speak out. She's not saying that she lied or even that she had so.e doubts. Rather she's talking about why cbf decided to go thru with the whole thing. Do you see something more?

  29. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Not to get in an argument, but are you suggesting it is clear she was making the whole thing up? I think that is unclear who was telling the truth throughout that whole saga, but similarly it wasn't apparent to me who was lying. (someone obviously was unless you subscribe to the she-remembered-a-sexual assault or the he-forgot-that-he-had-sexually-assaulted theories, which I don't).

    The only way I can see to call it one way or the other is on pure partisanship.
    No. I found her testimony to be credible.

  30. #330
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Agreed on most points. But do you think that lawyers statement says anything at all about who is telling the truth? She's saying that the implications of nominating kavanaugh were so dire (in her clients eyes) that she had to speak out. She's not saying that she lied or even that she had so.e doubts. Rather she's talking about why cbf decided to go thru with the whole thing. Do you see something more?
    I think the opposition to Kavenaugh was cynical. Sen. Feinstein held on to Ms. Ford's allegations until the last minute. That raises lots of questions and enables lots of negative inferences about her intentions. To me there is a bad odor around the whole effort. I am skeptical that the lawyer and her team even cared whether what Ford had to say was true. They're lawyers, like you and me, and they knew (or should have known) her allegations were unprovable. It was an effort to damage Kavenaugh, and a low point in the history of the SCOTUS confirmation process. Again, I hope I would see it the same way if the political parties were reversed. I don't know if I would.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

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