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Thread: Brett Kavenaugh Supreme Court Nomination

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Given his writings about alcohol, and now a girl, in yearbooks, coupled with his speech saying “What happens at Georgetown Prep stays at Georgetown Prep”...and how well that’s served he and his classmates to this day....he’s no “Boy Scout”
    I don't know. I was about as much of a boy scout as you've ever seen in high school, but I still said things that I'm not proud of. My yearbook didn't let us write a blurb like his, but mine probably would have been full of dumb inside jokes too. All guys are a wreck as teenagers. It's hard to know where the normal wreck ends and the serious wreck begins, though.

    Did you know that Neil Gorsuch went to the same high school? Why in the world do we need that school to provide our politicians? How about a little outside the box thinking, Mr Drain the Swamp?

  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Given his writings about alcohol, and now a girl, in yearbooks, coupled with his speech saying “What happens at Georgetown Prep stays at Georgetown Prep”...and how well that’s served he and his classmates to this day....he’s no “Boy Scout”


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    Like I said and as you've just supported, the court of public opinion has already decided on this along political lines. (I never called him a Boy Scout).

    As far as being a "Renate Alumnus" (purported boasting of sexual conquest with her) it appears to be just that. She has confirmed nothing ever happened with them or any of the other purported alumnus. Go watch American Vandal for further information on high school boys lying about not being a virgin.

    And now you've got me defending him. I don't know anything about him, and I think the accusers should be heard and these accusations thoroughly investigated, but it is also hard not to be suspicious about the political motivation at this point, particularly with the second accuser.

    If he has proof he wasn't at the party, time to pony up the evidence.


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  3. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Like I said and as you've just supported, the court of public opinion has already decided on this along political lines. (I never called him a Boy Scout).

    As far as being a "Renate Alumnus" (purported boasting of sexual conquest with her) it appears to be just that. She has confirmed nothing ever happened with them or any of the other purported alumnus. Go watch American Vandal for further information on high school boys lying about not being a virgin.

    And now you've got me defending him. I don't know anything about him, and I think the accusers should be heard and these accusations thoroughly investigated, but it is also hard not to be suspicious about the political motivation at this point, particularly with the second accuser.

    If he has proof he wasn't at the party, time to pony up the evidence.


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    Yes, but she also confirmed she has no idea a group of kids was claiming everyone had been with her.

    And this thread speaks to another issue, the “boys will be boys, so it’s ok” thought process. It has to stop.

    As for this proof, it doesn’t strike you as weird he has calendars from high school? Who keeps their family calendars for 30 years?

    The entire thing from both sides has jumped the shark. It’s probably more produced than reality TV.


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  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Yes, but she also confirmed she has no idea a group of kids was claiming everyone had been with her.

    And this thread speaks to another issue, the “boys will be boys, so it’s ok” thought process. It has to stop.

    As for this proof, it doesn’t strike you as weird he has calendars from high school? Who keeps their family calendars for 30 years?

    The entire thing from both sides has jumped the shark. It’s probably more produced than reality TV.


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    My father in law kept receipts and calendars for 40+ years. He had detailed notes on lots of different things. When I helped put in new sod 10 years ago he showed me how much he paid for sod in 1978 when he bought the house
    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

  5. #95
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    But it’s obvious from his own yearbook writings characterizing him as a Boy Scout was a poor choice on your part.
    Maybe. I was looking at information that has become reliably public about his conduct as an adult. He seems to have led an honorable life. I wonder how any of us would look if our behavior as minors (or while at Boy Scout camp) were scrutinized?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    Do the Boy Scout reports come from peers of the same system?
    Remember, I was commenting on the slam that he was a "drunken, spoiled frat boy." Sounds like the way BYU fans describe Utes fans.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Did you know that Neil Gorsuch went to the same high school? Why in the world do we need that school to provide our politicians? How about a little outside the box thinking, Mr Drain the Swamp?
    I do think it would be better to have a few SCOTUS justices who aren't alums of Harvard or Yale Law. I've tried to get nominated but have never gotten even a look. It probably relates to my hijinks at Clayton Junior High.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I do think it would be better to have a few SCOTUS justices who aren't alums of Harvard or Yale Law. I've tried to get nominated but have never gotten even a look. It probably relates to my hijinks at Clayton Junior High.
    So what's your position on alums of Clayton Jr High and Harvard or Yale law? Is there a middle ground there?

  9. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    So what's your position on alums of Clayton Jr High and Harvard or Yale law? Is there a middle ground there?
    Ugh, Bryant is the middle school of choice in SLC, and Duke is the law school to choose if you must go snooty.

  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Ugh, Bryant is the middle school of choice in SLC, and Duke is the law school to choose if you must go snooty.
    You would be surprised at the jr. highs now. A large percentage of the aves and upper aves families send their kids to Clayton. It is bursting at the seams. My daughter (8th grade) says about half her grade is from the aves or outside the boundaries. Bryant, unfortunately has been rendered an inner city school. It is a shame, really.

  11. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    You would be surprised at the jr. highs now. A large percentage of the aves and upper aves families send their kids to Clayton. It is bursting at the seams. My daughter (8th grade) says about half her grade is from the aves or outside the boundaries. Bryant, unfortunately has been rendered an inner city school. It is a shame, really.
    All the more reason for me to support the Braves. Isn't Clayton the cougars anyway?

    I loved walking to Bryant. Sometimes, we'd stop at the 7-11 on 3rd ave on the way home for a soda or candy.

  12. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    All the more reason for me to support the Braves. Isn't Clayton the cougars anyway?

    I loved walking to Bryant. Sometimes, we'd stop at the 7-11 on 3rd ave on the way home for a soda or candy.

    Yep. Cougars, but colors are red and white. Very politically correct.

  13. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Yes, but she also confirmed she has no idea a group of kids was claiming everyone had been with her.

    And this thread speaks to another issue, the “boys will be boys, so it’s ok” thought process. It has to stop.

    As for this proof, it doesn’t strike you as weird he has calendars from high school? Who keeps their family calendars for 30 years?

    The entire thing from both sides has jumped the shark. It’s probably more produced than reality TV.


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    If you think I'm saying "boys will be boys" you are sorely mistaken. However, immature teenagers bragging about pretend sexual exploits to likely cover their virginity is a completely different thing than sexually assaulting a
    woman. In fact I bet most high school kids, male and female are guilty of as much.

    Weird or not, if he's got proof like a calendar that he wasn't at the party it is time for him to pony up or shut up, but that is a strange way to paint himself into a corner like that.

    I think the reason I am talking about this is our legal standards are problematic in these types of cases and how do we fix it?

    On the one hand in the US a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty and a conviction for a crime is supposed to come only when it is beyond a reasonable doubt. The problem with sexual assault is that is a hard threshold to cross and not only that, it further victimized the victim. It is hard to say people are affording Kavanaugh a presumption of innocence and the burden of proof has yet to cross the threshold of reasonable doubt in my mind. Additionally accusations like that because they are almost equally unprovable, and so a person's reputation is certainly destroyed regardless of conviction.

    Case in point: when Chris's (webmonkey's) estranged wife accused him of molesting his daughter. Chris came to me asking for help on what to do as the police had searched his house and seized all of his electronics etc. I told him to comply with all of their requests and try to find a good attorney.

    Even though I didn't believe he would do such a thing I had a question mark in my head about him from that point forward. It wasn't until he passed and I confronted her demanding to know the truth that she admitted she made it up because she was angry. Yeah...

    So how do we fix it? I don't know but I think it begins with coaching our daughters to report immediately and that there won't be retribution and protection for them. We need to figure out a way to get to the truth without further victimizing women too. But that isn't much of a solution.

    That is why I am fascinated by this and discussing it. I have no read on Kavanaugh's character, either as a teen or as an adult. He isn't my first choice as a Supreme Court nominee either. And I also don't think being a "good guy" is a defense on this. As you know there are a lot of "good guys" in jump suits at the point of the mountain.


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  14. #104
    On another semi-related note: Enjoy prison Dr Huxtable.


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  15. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    If you think I'm saying "boys will be boys" you are sorely mistaken. However, immature teenagers bragging about pretend sexual exploits to likely cover their virginity is a completely different thing than sexually assaulting a
    woman. In fact I bet most high school kids, male and female are guilty of as much.

    Weird or not, if he's got proof like a calendar that he wasn't at the party it is time for him to pony up or shut up, but that is a strange way to paint himself into a corner like that.

    I think the reason I am talking about this is our legal standards are problematic in these types of cases and how do we fix it?

    On the one hand in the US a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty and a conviction for a crime is supposed to come only when it is beyond a reasonable doubt. The problem with sexual assault is that is a hard threshold to cross and not only that, it further victimized the victim. It is hard to say people are affording Kavanaugh a presumption of innocence and the burden of proof has yet to cross the threshold of reasonable doubt in my mind. Additionally accusations like that because they are almost equally unprovable, and so a person's reputation is certainly destroyed regardless of conviction.

    Case in point: when Chris's (webmonkey's) estranged wife accused him of molesting his daughter. Chris came to me asking for help on what to do as the police had searched his house and seized all of his electronics etc. I told him to comply with all of their requests and try to find a good attorney.

    Even though I didn't believe he would do such a thing I had a question mark in my head about him from that point forward. It wasn't until he passed and I confronted her demanding to know the truth that she admitted she made it up because she was angry. Yeah...

    So how do we fix it? I don't know but I think it begins with coaching our daughters to report immediately and that there won't be retribution and protection for them. We need to figure out a way to get to the truth without further victimizing women too. But that isn't much of a solution.

    That is why I am fascinated by this and discussing it. I have no read on Kavanaugh's character, either as a teen or as an adult. He isn't my first choice as a Supreme Court nominee either. And I also don't think being a "good guy" is a defense on this. As you know there are a lot of "good guys" in jump suits at the point of the mountain.


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    Which is my issue with people (not you) invoking the “Boy Scout” stuff.

    By all accounts people thought Ted Bundy was a great guy too.

    And as you referenced, Bill Cosby was the poster child for a great person for decades.

    Working within the system I can completely understand why people don’t come forward.

    The cases are often very difficult to prove and often involve the accused being drug through the mud as that’s the easiest way to fight the accusation.

    I don’t know what the solution is

    But when our politicians are of the caliber they are, it’s no real surprise. We’re not electing real fine upstanding folks. .


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  16. #106
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Which is my issue with people (not you) invoking the “Boy Scout” stuff.
    It was just a figure of speech. Let's move on.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    All the more reason for me to support the Braves. Isn't Clayton the cougars anyway?

    I loved walking to Bryant. Sometimes, we'd stop at the 7-11 on 3rd ave on the way home for a soda or candy.
    I am pretty sure I did some things at Garfield Elementary that would come back to haunt me if I were ever nominated for the bench. Like the Saturday afternoon we figured out how to climb up on the roof and explore all the ways we could have sneaked into the building. We didn't do that but we could have. Trespassing! And there are living witnesses!

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  18. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I am pretty sure I did some things at Garfield Elementary that would come back to haunt me if I were ever nominated for the bench. Like the Saturday afternoon we figured out how to climb up on the roof and explore all the ways we could have sneaked into the building. We didn't do that but we could have. Trespassing! And there are living witnesses!
    You are not alone. I still have a huge scar on my hand from climbing on top of our church and getting severely electrocuted. It was an old building with a projector room over the gym for showing movies back in the day (the room still had some VERY old-school projectors in there cool stuff), and the projector room had a small window onto the roof. The latch on the window was broken so we could get into that room and look down on the gym. Now, when you're showing a movie you need to be able to control the lights in the "theater," so this projection room had switches that controlled the gym lights. Therefore, whenever we'd show up at the church to play basketball and someone else was already in there playing, I would climb onto the church roof, go through the window and turn off the lights in the gym. the players would turn them back on, but after I had turned them off 5 or 6 times they would give up and leave so that we could play.

    Do you think this would preclude me from getting confirmed?

  19. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    All the more reason for me to support the Braves. Isn't Clayton the cougars anyway?

    I loved walking to Bryant. Sometimes, we'd stop at the 7-11 on 3rd ave on the way home for a soda or candy.
    is this you, or is there more than one?

  20. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    is this you, or is there more than one?
    There's only one of me! That guy is an imposter!

  21. #111
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  22. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post


    You could also play the Orrin Hatch clip saying an FBI investigation is appropriate and necessary. These clips are easy pickings.

  23. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    You could also play the Orrin Hatch clip saying an FBI investigation is appropriate and necessary. These clips are easy pickings.
    Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

  24. #114
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Brett Kavenaugh Supreme Court Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    You could also play the Orrin Hatch clip saying an FBI investigation is appropriate and necessary. These clips are easy pickings.
    So politicians take inconsistent positions. We can still call them on that. Or we could just stop paying attention to them...which is tempting, but they still make decisions that affect us all. Rats.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 09-26-2018 at 04:58 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I despise Ted Cruz but this stuff needs to stop:

    https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/09/25/pol...www.cnn.com%2F

    At this point I have no idea who to believe, but for what it is worth when I was in high school a rumor was floating around that at a party I was blackout drunk. It spread around like crazy because it was out of character for me. Problem was, I wasn't even at the party, but people throughout my senior year and probably to this day thought I was a partier.

    Knowing the nature of high school and college and stories that build into legend it is interesting to me that there haven't seemed to be a lot of corroboration of him even being wild at parties.

    The National Review viewed his interview with Fox as a driving a stake in to defend his good name, CNN characterized it as a disturbing political ploy by him, they also omitted key comments. You can chart who believes whom by political affiliation on this and the court of public opinion has decided without hearing any testimony or seeing a shred of evidence.

    I'll tell you that if I was innocent I would likely do the same thing with my primary motivation being to clear my name before being nominated. It does seem he has presented some items that can be corroborated now. If he really wasn't at the parties that is the biggest deal. If people who knew him can say they never saw him blackout drunk that is less reliable, but important. I don't know how you prove his virginity, but it does seem less likely that he'd be waiving it around at parties... although life in Utah has taught me that often those same people in that point of their life can also be overly aggressive too, but those are typically kids struggling to balance their hormones to fit into their religious standards versus being shy about it or whatever.

    If Kavanaugh did this I believe it is a disqualifier, but right now I am disturbed by how all of this is proceeding.


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    It's harder to prove a negative. Makes Kavanaugh's job a lot harder, at least as far as his general character/style at the time goes.
    I agree, people accosting conservatives in public places needs to stop.

  26. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    It doesn't matter if someone questions both witnesses in a neutral and fair manner. I think you know that, right? Whoever does the questioning will be the object of ridicule, possibly for decades to come.
    The people who will criticize him despite his fairness or objectivity will also criticize all Republican members for no one being willing to question. The one fair and objective questioner may get more heat than the whole body of questioners, but will make points for the rest of his group, for himself and for Kavanaugh from those who are willing to listen. I think there are quite a few of them out there.

  27. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I do think it would be better to have a few SCOTUS justices who aren't alums of Harvard or Yale Law. I've tried to get nominated but have never gotten even a look. It probably relates to my hijinks at Clayton Junior High.
    Must be. I've never told anyone what you did at Highland.

  28. #118
    With a calendar now produced a new disturbing question emerges: Do we really want a justice who spent nearly every weekend as a teenager at an apparent beach house they owned?


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  29. #119
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    “The reason the Constitution requires a speedy trial in criminal cases, and the reason the law imposes statutes of limitations (in federal law, it is usually five years), is that unreasonable delay unfairly prejudices an accused’s right to present a defense. After five years, to say nothing of 36 years, physical evidence is no longer available, witnesses are often unavailable, and even if witnesses can be produced, their memories have faded and become unreliable. There is no way to conduct a proceeding that satisfies fundamental fairness.”

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...s-not-a-trial/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  30. #120
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    Must be. I've never told anyone what you did at Highland.
    You can threaten me all you want but I’m not going to increase my monthly hush money payments to you.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

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