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Thread: 1998's Revenge - The Utah-Kentucky Thread

  1. #1

    1998's Revenge - The Utah-Kentucky Thread

    Saturday afternoon in Lexington. I literally just want to see some fight, urgency, and toughness.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    Saturday afternoon in Lexington. I literally just want to see some fight, urgency, and toughness.
    The team literally has nothing to lose in this game. Nobody expects them to win...fans are bailing...I suspect a fair amount won't even watch. Larry needs to take the reigns off a little and just let them play free and loose and see what happens.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    The team literally has nothing to lose in this game. Nobody expects them to win...fans are bailing...I suspect a fair amount won't even watch. Larry needs to take the reigns off a little and just let them play free and loose and see what happens.
    A good start would be especially beneficial. BBN is feeling a little salty after the Seton Hall loss. Get a feeling of dread in the building among fans, and it will spread to this team.

  4. #4
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    I see Kentucky struggling because they are a young team, and I am like "cool, two young teams going at it, we have a chance."

    Then I see the recruiting rankings of their young players vs ours.

    It is going to be a tough one. I agree that I just want to see some fight and consistency.

  5. #5
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I will watch, but it's sad to think that there is so little excitement or anticipation for a game against Kentucky. Remember how excited we were to play Duke in the Garden a few years ago?
    Fire Larry K.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #6
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Fire Larry K.
    this spot reserved for LA Ute to call for Bill Kinneberg's job

    hat trick

  7. #7
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    this spot reserved for LA Ute to call for Bill Kinneberg's job

    hat trick
    Why not fire him? He probably shares some of the blame for basketball´s woes. After all, basketball and baseball arevery similar words. I think we should be looking at Mark Harlan and Ruth Watkins too. And there´s always Chris Hill.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Why not fire him? He probably shares some of the blame for basketball´s woes. After all, basketball and baseball arevery similar words. I think we should be looking at Mark Harlan and Ruth Watkins too. And there´s always Chris Hill.

    And Obama and G. W Bush.

  9. #9
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    And Obama and G. W Bush.
    Let´s get serious here. It all started with Woodrow Wilson.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #10
    Bold prediction: at least one of the core 4 runnin utes has a breakout game today.

  11. #11
    The future of the past is now!

  12. #12
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    So I’m sitting here asking myself: How did our basketball program fall to this level? By “level“ I mean not really competitive against other division 1 schools.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  13. #13
    Although they beat Tulsa who then beat #19 K. St, so like most young teams they have their moments--just not away from home.

    But the bigger issue is that I now believe in voter fraud--there is no way Charles Jones was player of the year in JUCO last year. He has no game--can't dribble, can't shoot. If I was in JUCO last year I would demand a re-count.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    So I’m sitting here asking myself: How did our basketball program fall to this level? By “level“ I mean not really competitive against other division 1 schools.
    Its like watching Larry's first year all over again. Groundhog day but without Andie McDowell

  15. #15
    Malleus Cougarorum Solon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    It is. In the past 5 years, even when we weren't a tournament team, we played competitively against top 25 teams. I expected us to be raw this season, but I didn't expect this.
    It’s embarrassing.

    Luckily, it’s December. I think we will see improvement.

    I was in and out watching the game while I was at the gym.
    i had to check the box score midway through the second half to see if Tillman had played.
    The fake Shadow figures on “Ghost Adventures” are more present than Tillman and Barefield were today for most of the game.
    σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
    -- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Its like watching Larry's first year all over again. Groundhog day but without Andie McDowell
    We are nowhere near 2011-12. A better comp is 12-13. That group had better senior leadership.

  17. #17
    Didn't watch the game, but... what has happened to Barefield, and especially Tillman?

    I appreciate what Barefield has done, he gave us 3 decent years, basically won the game at St. Marys. Donnie's Sophomore Slump is a mystery, given all the work he put in.

    These guys might just be in a trough, mentally, emotionally. Given the level of competition, I'll give them a pass for today, but really hope they bounce back.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Didn't watch the game, but... what has happened to Barefield, and especially Tillman?

    I appreciate what Barefield has done, he gave us 3 decent years, basically won the game at St. Marys. Donnie's Sophomore Slump is a mystery, given all the work he put in.

    These guys might just be in a trough, mentally, emotionally. Given the level of competition, I'll give them a pass for today, but really hope they bounce back.
    ESPN’s crew said they spent 2 days with the Utes and Barefield never said a word.....that’s bad.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Even though it's a loss, I'm glad I'm watching this game to witness the moment Gach officially became our future.
    You've caught #gachscratchfever
    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

  20. #20
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
    You've caught #gachscratchfever

  21. #21
    Hmmm. Ive been wondering about Gach and Scratch for a while now.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Standing ute View Post
    Although they beat Tulsa who then beat #19 K. St, so like most young teams they have their moments--just not away from home.

    But the bigger issue is that I now believe in voter fraud--there is no way Charles Jones was player of the year in JUCO last year. He has no game--can't dribble, can't shoot. If I was in JUCO last year I would demand a re-count.
    Teams will use Jones to neg recruit us as long as Larry is around. The cratering of his career thus far is not a good look for anyone involved with the Utah program.

    CSI had two really good point guards in the time I've lived in Idaho. Pierre Jackson had a cup of coffee in the NBA, and Fabyon Harris was a two-year starter and 12 PPG guy at Texas A&M. Jones didn't have the career Jackson did, but he was a significantly better prospect than Harris. You don't average 25 PPG and lead your team to the NJCAA title game without having ability.

    I would never turn down a player with Jones' resume at Utah. Ever. But why would he have been interested in us? We've been a walk-it-up, slow-tempo team from the moment Larry arrived. The system at Utah is the antithesis of what he did at CSI. Unless there's a significant change in production, hard to imagine Jones wanting to stick around for his senior year.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    We are nowhere near 2011-12. A better comp is 12-13. That group had better senior leadership.
    By senior leadership, you mean Jason Washburn. Cuz that was it as far as that category is concerned.

    Your 2012-13 comparison is not encouraging. Larry's coaching for his job in 2019-20 if we get 2012-13 results this year, because this year's team might be worse -- and definitely so on the defensive end. Consider: In 2012-13, the only team to score more than 80 points against us in league play was Stanford, which did it twice and a team we had no answer for in Larry's first 3 years. Arizona -- a top 10 team all season long -- averaged 64 points against us in two games.

    This year, in our losses, we're giving up a shade under 82 points per game. We gave up 76 to NAIA Division II College of Idaho, for god's sake. That's a flat-out abomination. Ray Giacoletti thinks our defense stinks.

    Our problem in 2012-13 was scoring. We never broke 80 against a D-1 team. We were a coin-flip prop just to break 60 in Pac-12 play. Our season high was 79 vs Cal in the Pac-12 quarters, and we needed OT to get there. Our highest game in regulation was the Majerus Game -- Boise State, when we scored 76 in a huge upset in the first game we played after Maji's death. But as noted, we could defend. And that would keep us competitive in games we had no business being competitive (While 15-18 straight up, Utah was 20-10 against the spread that year; this year, we're 2-7.).

    Scoring isn't nearly the problem this year. This year's team is clearly more talented, especially in the backcourt. Or it should be. I'm glad you made the comparison because it forced me to go back in time and see the actual disparity between that team and this year's team, and see what our teams were once built out of. As much as I hated the close losses and the lowering of the bar set in that season by people who seemed OK with leading the league in moral victories, in hindsight, you can see Larry was building something then. What's being built today? It sure isn't evident with the product he's putting on the floor. He's doing a horrible job and there's no defending it.

    One more thing -- our starting backcourt in 2012-13 on Day 1 (not at season's end, obviously) was Glen Dean and Aaron Dotson. They were filler. Larry's in Year 8. There's no filler on the roster. He's doing less with more. If you could have this year's Larry coach against 2012-13 Larry, and put all those players together for a simulated game, I bet 2012-13 Larry kicks the shit out of this year's Larry. We won five league games in 2012-13. Are you saying we should be OK with similar results this year?
    Last edited by SoCalPat; 12-16-2018 at 11:04 PM.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    By senior leadership, you mean Jason Washburn. Cuz that was it as far as that category is concerned.

    Your 2012-13 comparison is not encouraging. Larry's coaching for his job in 2019-20 if we get 2012-13 results this year, because this year's team might be worse -- and definitely so on the defensive end. Consider: In 2012-13, the only team to score more than 80 points against us in league play was Stanford, which did it twice and a team we had no answer for in Larry's first 3 years. Arizona -- a top 10 team all season long -- averaged 64 points against us in two games.

    This year, in our losses, we're giving up a shade under 82 points per game. We gave up 76 to NAIA Division II College of Idaho, for god's sake. That's a flat-out abomination. Ray Giacoletti thinks our defense stinks.

    Our problem in 2012-13 was scoring. We never broke 80 against a D-1 team. We were a coin-flip prop just to break 60 in Pac-12 play. Our season high was 79 vs Cal in the Pac-12 quarters, and we needed OT to get there. Our highest game in regulation was the Majerus Game -- Boise State, when we scored 76 in a huge upset in the first game we played after Maji's death. But as noted, we could defend. And that would keep us competitive in games we had no business being competitive (While 15-18 straight up, Utah was 20-10 against the spread that year; this year, we're 2-7.).

    Scoring isn't nearly the problem this year. This year's team is clearly more talented, especially in the backcourt. Or it should be. I'm glad you made the comparison because it forced me to go back in time and see the actual disparity between that team and this year's team, and see what our teams were once built out of. As much as I hated the close losses and the lowering of the bar set in that season by people who seemed OK with leading the league in moral victories, in hindsight, you can see Larry was building something then. What's being built today? It sure isn't evident with the product he's putting on the floor. He's doing a horrible job and there's no defending it.

    One more thing -- our starting backcourt in 2012-13 on Day 1 (not at season's end, obviously) was Glen Dean and Aaron Dotson. They were filler. Larry's in Year 8. There's no filler on the roster. He's doing less with more. If you could have this year's Larry coach against 2012-13 Larry, and put all those players together for a simulated game, I bet 2012-13 Larry kicks the shit out of this year's Larry. We won five league games in 2012-13. Are you saying we should be OK with similar results this year?
    You're forgetting JD Dubois when it comes to sr leadership.

    And no....im not ok with any of the results or where we are at. I hope and believe there's a light at the end of this tunnel. But I'm not 100% sure.

    My argument was against those comparimg this year's squad to Larry's first.....where we were a sub 300 team.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    By senior leadership, you mean Jason Washburn. Cuz that was it as far as that category is concerned.

    Your 2012-13 comparison is not encouraging. Larry's coaching for his job in 2019-20 if we get 2012-13 results this year, because this year's team might be worse -- and definitely so on the defensive end. Consider: In 2012-13, the only team to score more than 80 points against us in league play was Stanford, which did it twice and a team we had no answer for in Larry's first 3 years. Arizona -- a top 10 team all season long -- averaged 64 points against us in two games.

    This year, in our losses, we're giving up a shade under 82 points per game. We gave up 76 to NAIA Division II College of Idaho, for god's sake. That's a flat-out abomination. Ray Giacoletti thinks our defense stinks.

    Our problem in 2012-13 was scoring. We never broke 80 against a D-1 team. We were a coin-flip prop just to break 60 in Pac-12 play. Our season high was 79 vs Cal in the Pac-12 quarters, and we needed OT to get there. Our highest game in regulation was the Majerus Game -- Boise State, when we scored 76 in a huge upset in the first game we played after Maji's death. But as noted, we could defend. And that would keep us competitive in games we had no business being competitive (While 15-18 straight up, Utah was 20-10 against the spread that year; this year, we're 2-7.).

    Scoring isn't nearly the problem this year. This year's team is clearly more talented, especially in the backcourt. Or it should be. I'm glad you made the comparison because it forced me to go back in time and see the actual disparity between that team and this year's team, and see what our teams were once built out of. As much as I hated the close losses and the lowering of the bar set in that season by people who seemed OK with leading the league in moral victories, in hindsight, you can see Larry was building something then. What's being built today? It sure isn't evident with the product he's putting on the floor. He's doing a horrible job and there's no defending it.

    One more thing -- our starting backcourt in 2012-13 on Day 1 (not at season's end, obviously) was Glen Dean and Aaron Dotson. They were filler. Larry's in Year 8. There's no filler on the roster. He's doing less with more. If you could have this year's Larry coach against 2012-13 Larry, and put all those players together for a simulated game, I bet 2012-13 Larry kicks the shit out of this year's Larry. We won five league games in 2012-13. Are you saying we should be OK with similar results this year?

    Your tweet was particularly dispiriting

    Patrick Sheltra
    @100ThingsUtah
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    Even in the 5-win first season, Utah was a point spread monster in Larry's first four years. A veritable ATM. Playing above expectations by a wide margin. In the R32 and NIT years, about a .500 team ATS. This year? 2-7. There's a ton of money to be made by fading Utah now.
    Last edited by concerned; 12-17-2018 at 07:22 AM.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    You're forgetting JD Dubois when it comes to sr leadership.

    And no....im not ok with any of the results or where we are at. I hope and believe there's a light at the end of this tunnel. But I'm not 100% sure.

    My argument was against those comparimg this year's squad to Larry's first.....where we were a sub 300 team.

    The comparison has more to do with the experience of watching the team rather than the ranking I hate watching this team, which was my experience in 2011-12. This team is excruciating. I had no feeling of optimism then, and none now. That was a season just to get through and forget; so is this. Despite Gach.

  27. #27
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    The comparison has more to do with the experience of watching the team rather than the ranking I hate watching this team, which was my experience in 2011-12. This team is excruciating. I had no feeling of optimism then, and none now. That was a season just to get through and forget; so is this. Despite Gach.
    I haven´t been to a game yet this season. I haven´t watched an entire game yet either. A first for me. I´m starting to think Larry´s lost his zeal for coaching at Utah. My guess is that the U. will not need to worry about his buyout — it would not surprise me to see him simply take another job,

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I´m starting to think Larry´s lost his zeal for coaching at Utah. My guess is that the U. will not need to worry about his buyout — it would not surprise me to see him simply take another job,
    That has not occurred to me, but I think you are right.

  29. #29
    I hope something like that happens. I assume he has a buyout clause if another team hires him away, but I hope Mark Harlan will negotiate that down to $500 and picking up the tab for lunch.

  30. #30
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    I'm still hanging onto the bandwagon. It is by my fingernails though.

    This team is young, but much more talented than the 6-25 team. That team played hard but couldn't throw the ball into the ocean if their lives depended on it. Our best player was Cedric Martin. Great guy, but he isn't going to carry you to victory. This team has talent. Plus, we're playing without Thoune who I think has a huge upside like Gach. I think we see a big turnaround near the end of January when they start putting things together. That's the hope I'm clinging to.

    The real head scratcher for me is Barefield and Tillman. Those guys have really faded this year. They need to man up and carry this team.

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