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Thread: Happy for Devon Daniels

  1. #1

    Happy for Devon Daniels

    http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/recap?gameId=401082845
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  2. #2
    Wow good for him. I wish we had a coach who could relate with talented kids.

  3. #3
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Wow good for him. I wish we had a coach who could relate with talented kids.
    Looks like Larry is a “my way or the highway” guy. So was Majerus, but IIRC he ran off only the less talented kids. Am I right?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Looks like Larry is a “my way or the highway” guy. So was Majerus, but IIRC he ran off only the less talented kids. Am I right?
    The only player who left Majerus’s program that mattered in terms of outcome on the court was Marc Jackson, as tough as Majerus was.

    Jim Boylen was also a my way or the highway kind of guy. You also have to look like the overall condition of the program as a result of the transfers.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  5. #5
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    The only player who left Majerus’s program that mattered in terms of outcome on the court was Marc Jackson, as tough as Majerus was.

    Jim Boylen was also a my way or the highway kind of guy. You also have to look like the overall condition of the program as a result of the transfers.
    I guess Boylen was that way, but I was trying to compare Larry with successful coaches. Larry’s comments about “turds” and his apparent purges of really talented players because they “don’t fit in” don’t look good right now.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #6
    Can anyone rattle off a list of coaches who would tolerate a player punching a teammate and threatening to punch fellow coaches?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    Can anyone rattle off a list of coaches who would tolerate a player punching a teammate and threatening to punch fellow coaches?
    Yep, Daniels is not the guy to beat up Krystko over. Dude was a trainwreck, plus he has not been a good player for NC State this year. Nowhere close to as good as he was as a frosh at the U. He's had a couple of good games, but in general has been underwhelming.

  8. #8
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    Yep, Daniels is not the guy to beat up Krystko over. Dude was a trainwreck, plus he has not been a good player for NC State this year. Nowhere close to as good as he was as a frosh at the U. He's had a couple of good games, but in general has been underwhelming.
    I really like Larry and the way he tries to run a clean, principled program. I do wonder about his “turd factor” comments from time to time. If Devon really was misbehaving as we’ve all heard, it’s hard for me to believe that he suddenly started acting like that after he got to Utah. (See Nick Emery example.) I just wonder.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #9
    Who else has he run off?
    Vante Hendrix left on his own—they did not want him to leave.

    Most of the others were just not good enough players.

    The Utes made mistakes chasing 1 & done players like Collins & Markanenn—& missed so they took fillers who did not pan out, now they are starting over with young a notch down talent. (Tillman, Allen, Gach).

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    Can anyone rattle off a list of coaches who would tolerate a player punching a teammate and threatening to punch fellow coaches?
    You are believing the innuendo that the coaches have spread. Daniels has had the decency to keep quiet. But of course as a 19 year old African American kid he’s going to have a hard time getting most Utah fans to empathize with him. People naturally tend to empathize with people who remind us most of ourselves.

    I am not going to accept the coaches’ side of the story while Daniels was accepted in and is doing well in a stellar program and tradition like NC State.

    When I was a Ute manager it was not unheard of for players to square off. I can think of two who were competing for a a starting position all season, and did not like each other. Coach Pimm managed the situation. They both contributed and the team was one of Utah’s most successful ever.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  11. #11
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Standing ute View Post
    Who else has he run off?
    Vante Hendrix left on his own—they did not want him to leave.

    Most of the others were just not good enough players.

    The Utes made mistakes chasing 1 & done players like Collins & Markanenn—& missed so they took fillers who did not pan out, now they are starting over with young a notch down talent. (Tillman, Allen, Gach).
    Princeton Onwas? Super athlete, could jump out of the gym and always got to the rim, but couldn’t shoot free throws. I thought he was pushed out for similar reasons, although not as egregious.

    I do think Larry it’s clear that is trying hard to navigate the current recruiting world, with 1-and-dones and payoffs, so I think he deserves some slack.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  12. #12
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    But of course as a 19 year old African American kid he’s going to have a hard time getting most Utah fans to empathize with him.
    Your love for your home state continues to shine through.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Your love for your home state continues to shine through.
    How do you explain that everyone just takes the coaches’ rumor mill at face value and doesn’t hold them one whit responsible?
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  14. #14
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    How do you explain that everyone just takes the coaches’ rumor mill at face value and doesn’t hold them one whit responsible?
    Not everyone.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #15
    I'm with Seattle on the Daniels dismissal - especially with what I knew about the Onwas situation. I'm not as close to the program as I was early on so I don't have insider knowledge anymore but if things have stayed anywhere near the same as they were the first three or four seasons, I would argue the staff shares as much or more of the blame for Daniels leaving.
    I agree with Seattle about players having altercations. I would assume most of us have played on teams. Did players ever come to fisticuffs in any of your experiences? It's happened more than once in mine. Coaches need to be able to manage those situations. Let's keep in mind that Larry reinstated Daniels for the Pac-12 tournament after his suspension and then dismissed him.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    I'm with Seattle on the Daniels dismissal - especially with what I knew about the Onwas situation. I'm not as close to the program as I was early on so I don't have insider knowledge anymore but if things have stayed anywhere near the same as they were the first three or four seasons, I would argue the staff shares as much or more of the blame for Daniels leaving.
    I agree with Seattle about players having altercations. I would assume most of us have played on teams. Did players ever come to fisticuffs in any of your experiences? It's happened more than once in mine. Coaches need to be able to manage those situations. Let's keep in mind that Larry reinstated Daniels for the Pac-12 tournament after his suspension and then dismissed him.
    It went well beyond "fisticuffs" and it was not a coach mismanagement. His dismissal had the approval of almost everyone in the program. And as I have said before, we were noticeably better in the back half of that season without him.

  17. #17
    You speak like you know something and I respect that. What I saw when I was closer, and I believe it's reflected in performance now, are systemic issues the coach is ultimately responsible for. I'm just not willing to place all the blame on the player when I question how Larry does - or doesn't - run the program. I really believe he could assert himself more in the everyday running of the program and still empower assistants. I think at least some of what happened with Daniels can be attributed to team culture which ultimately rests with the head coach.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    You speak like you know something and I respect that. What I saw when I was closer, and I believe it's reflected in performance now, are systemic issues the coach is ultimately responsible for. I'm just not willing to place all the blame on the player when I question how Larry does - or doesn't - run the program. I really believe he could assert himself more in the everyday running of the program and still empower assistants. I think at least some of what happened with Daniels can be attributed to team culture which ultimately rests with the head coach.
    What you’re seeing here is that MUS purports to be such a know it all about this because he has friends on the coaching staff and is given access. This is why he’s so fiercely loyal to them. The same thing happened with Boylen. He had his shills on the sports chat boards even to a greater degree—a coterie of defenders who just would defend Boylen agains all reason. I think Boylen deliberately cultivated people who brownnosed him and then dug in their heels defending him. But now they can’t blame the failures on a deficient practice facility.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  19. #19
    'Biq: i agree 100% that for some guys, the staff could have/should have done more. All im saying is that daniels is the wrong hill to die on for that point.

    Seattle: by painting me as a racially insensitive paid shill, youve got me completely pegged. When are you and your fellow buddies in the statler and waldorf club (aka Portland ute, comrade crimson) going to pony up to pay the buyout?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    'Biq: i agree 100% that for some guys, the staff could have/should have done more. All im saying is that daniels is the wrong hill to die on for that point.

    Seattle: by painting me as a racially insensitive paid shill, youve got me completely pegged. When are you and your fellow buddies in the statler and waldorf club (aka Portland ute, comrade crimson) going to pony up to pay the buyout?
    Seattle's last experience in Utah and thus continued mental image was from the late 70s to 80s. Don't take it personally that he isn't current.


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