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Thread: 2020 Presidential Race

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
    She has a very small amount. Not enough to be considered by the tribes as Native american. She has used her "Heritage" to further her career. She talks about the normal person not having a fair shake... What about her own story? seems like she had fair shake. She's incredibly disingenous. "we need to make the ultra rich pay their fair share!" That means a big tax on anyone worth over 50 million. She's worth 9 million dollars she is the top .05% of net worth in the world.
    If I was for wealth redistribution, which I'm not, I would still think that taxation has to be the absolute worst way to redistribute that wealth. There's that old joke of "Harley Davidson's are the most efficient way of turning gasoline into noise..." well government has to be the most efficient way of turning money into vapor.

    If people really wanted the wealthy to help more to lift up the lower class then perhaps a tax of 70% that could be waived if 50% of their wealth was given to charitable sources or something. But I suspect that taxing the ultra-rich it isn't really about that.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Does this mean Warren is pretty much toast?





    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.87c8be82c252
    Yeah, she's toast.

    If the dems were down to 2 or 3 candidates, she might survive, but, when there's 30 choices available with no distinguishing difference between her and most the other candidates (unlike Trump), there's no way they'll take on her baggage.

    I'm not a dem, so have no horse in this race, but, if they're looking for Progressives/Socialists, they'll have many other choices.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  3. #33
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Cory Booker invents language in awkward interview: 'Swiss! Yeah, I do not speak Swiss'

    We’ll probably hear about this only on conservative media. Maybe on CNN, but only from a reporter who speaks Austrian.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Cory Booker invents language in awkward interview: 'Swiss! Yeah, I do not speak Swiss'

    We’ll probably hear about this only on conservative media. Maybe on CNN, but only from a reporter who speaks Austrian.
    I don't know about you, but I don't speak Swiss or Austrian. I barely understand Australian.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    If I was for wealth redistribution, which I'm not, I would still think that taxation has to be the absolute worst way to redistribute that wealth. There's that old joke of "Harley Davidson's are the most efficient way of turning gasoline into noise..." well government has to be the most efficient way of turning money into vapor.

    If people really wanted the wealthy to help more to lift up the lower class then perhaps a tax of 70% that could be waived if 50% of their wealth was given to charitable sources or something. But I suspect that taxing the ultra-rich it isn't really about that.
    The problem with wealthy folks giving money to charity is that they create their own charities and then give to that and then funnel it back to themselves. It has worked for years and Trump and Clintons are just the latest in a long line. The best way to have the wealthy pay more is a flat tax, no deductions, no credits, no fictional depreciation of real property, no paper losses. Every taxpayer gets a federal poverty line personal exemption.

  6. #36
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I don't know about you, but I don't speak Swiss or Austrian. I barely understand Australian.
    I am fluent in Great Basinese.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #37
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Bernie Sanders’s biggest strength for 2020 is his ability to thrive on chaos

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...l_ideas&wpmm=1

    I wonder if Bernie will benefit as the other more mainstream Dem candidates divide their chunk of the electorate and he keeps winning with his base, like Trump in 2016.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #38
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Anger of Amy Klobuchar

    Don’t sell cruelty and pathological behavior as a feminist victory.

    by Caitlin Flanagan
    Contributing writer at The Atlantic and author of Girl Land

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...s-rage/584104/


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The Anger of Amy Klobuchar
    Crazy, she became a candidate after the supreme court hearings because she seemed so moderate and in control. Now, she's all but out.

    I found out yesterday that Cory Booker is vegan. Disappointing. Someone better step up, or we better get an impeachment. I don't want four more years.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Crazy, she became a candidate after the supreme court hearings because she seemed so moderate and in control. Now, she's all but out.

    I found out yesterday that Cory Booker is vegan. Disappointing. Someone better step up, or we better get an impeachment. I don't want four more years.
    Don't worry, Mark Cuban might throw his hat in the ring.

    Is this really the best we've got?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #41
    Kamala Harris with a general election kind of move: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...nal-protection

    Her polling early has been good. Democrats wouldn't bail on her because she owns a gun. It might bring on independents, and she could be a voice to push toward common sense gun restrictions.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Kamala Harris with a general election kind of move: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...nal-protection

    Her polling early has been good. Democrats wouldn't bail on her because she owns a gun. It might bring on independents, and she could be a voice to push toward common sense gun restrictions.
    Gotta question the "neither hot nor cold" strategy on this one. I think it will have the opposite effect of alienating her liberal base and also alienating the people on the right disgusted with Trump. The gun control debate has almost religious passion behind it.

    I'm very discouraged by the candidates out there right now and fearful of another 4 years of Trump. The left seems to continue to be oblivious to a candidate that will appeal the the majority of America.

    Never underestimate the power of the devil you know.


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  13. #43
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Gotta question the "neither hot nor cold" strategy on this one. I think it will have the opposite effect of alienating her liberal base and also alienating the people on the right disgusted with Trump. The gun control debate has almost religious passion behind it.

    I'm very discouraged by the candidates out there right now and fearful of another 4 years of Trump. The left seems to continue to be oblivious to a candidate that will appeal the the majority of America.

    Never underestimate the power of the devil you know.


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    Usually the candidates campaign in the primaries on their parties' wing, then race to the center in the general election. She's moving to the center early. It'll be interesting to see if that works. I think it's kinda smart, although I hate the thought of her being president.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #44
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    NY Times:

    ‘Stop Sanders’ Democrats Are Agonizing Over His Momentum

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/u...tic-party.html

    In 2016 I was really surprised to see how many young people (millennials) from conservative Latter-day Saint families — many at BYU — were enthusiastic Sanders supporters. I won’t be surprised (but I will be dismayed) if we see a Trump-like phenomenon with Bernie. He’s a smart, tough pol and is good on the stump. Not to mention the epitome of anti-establishment.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    NY Times:

    ‘Stop Sanders’ Democrats Are Agonizing Over His Momentum

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/u...tic-party.html

    In 2016 I was really surprised to see how many young people (millennials) from conservative Latter-day Saint families — many at BYU — were enthusiastic Sanders supporters. I won’t be surprised (but I will be dismayed) if we see a Trump-like phenomenon with Bernie. He’s a smart, tough pol and is good on the stump. Not to mention the epitome of anti-establishment.
    Why surprised, "socialism" is providing them a great, inexpensive education. Too bad the rest of the masses of LDS college age students don't receive the same benefit. Unlike their parents, socialism is not a scary word. They see it all around them.

  16. #46
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    2020 Presidential Race

    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    Why surprised, "socialism" is providing them a great, inexpensive education. Too bad the rest of the masses of LDS college age students don't receive the same benefit. Unlike their parents, socialism is not a scary word. They see it all around them.
    To be fair I saw it among lots of active LDS millennials in Utah and California, including some of my non-Cougar nieces and nephews — not just at BYU. Kids raised in pretty conservative homes. I’m not criticizing them, just noting the phenomenon.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 04-16-2019 at 08:44 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  17. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    Why surprised, "socialism" is providing them a great, inexpensive education. Too bad the rest of the masses of LDS college age students don't receive the same benefit. Unlike their parents, socialism is not a scary word. They see it all around them.
    In the Fort Lauderdale airport, stuck in a TSA line, talking with a woman with a thick French accent. Turns out she was born in Luxembourg, now lives in Montreal. "I hate the Europeans, they are so Socialist!"

    Me: "Canada is not socialist?"

    Her: "No, Canada is not close to socialist. You are American, I am sorry, but you wouldn't understand"

    I think one of the problems is here "socialism" is defined as a slippery slope, everything from a public library to Venezuela.

    Of course Millennials are going to have no problem jettisoning big parts of this expansive definition, embracing what has historically been deemed as verboten.

    This goes back to a column LA posted about how the Scandinavian counties have a more cohesive social structure that allows a broad social safety net while embracing the engine of capitalism. In the historic denigration of Ted Kennedy-style social programs as socialism, we've inadvertently created a chaotic ideological minefield where trying to even get on common terms is a massive lift.
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 04-17-2019 at 08:11 AM.

  18. #48
    https://www.businessinsider.com/tax-...charity-2019-4


    Easier to spend YOUR money...….
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  19. #49
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    He makes some good points, but the Democrats are excellent at messaging and at disciplining their message, so I think they will probably get this figured out by 2020. The news media will help them too.

    The unwitting Committee to Re-elect the President

    Given his consistently poor approval ratings, and growing concern about the polarization that he has exacerbated, Democrats should have little trouble ousting President Trump next year. But instead, with a series of outlandish and often deeply unpopular proposals, they have morphed effectively into the Committee to Re-Elect the President.

    Democrats could succeed easily if they focused on basic middle class issues, such as health care and reforming the tax system, where popular opinion, including among working class whites, is largely on their side. Infrastructure spending, if they can somehow disassociate it from the usual pork-barreling, could also gain support, particularly from construction workers.

    Instead many Democratic candidates appear if they are trying to win the campus and media intersectionality challenge, emphasizing cultural “purity” in ways that worry such craftier politicians as Barack Obama. The views now commonly expressed on gender, race, immigration and the environment may work in the deep blue recesses of our majority cities, but are unlikely to play in Peoria.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #50
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    To be fair I saw it among lots of active LDS millennials in Utah and California, including some of my non-Cougar nieces and nephews — not just at BYU. Kids raised in pretty conservative homes. I’m not criticizing them, just noting the phenomenon.
    I'm currently working at a tech startup in South Jordan full of Utah County millenials. If their thinking is any barometer of the future, the GOP is dead. I mean, if you can't win in Utah County.....

  21. #51
    Mayor Pete goes into "enemy territory", Fox News, and criticizes a couple of Fox hosts. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...-hall-n1007546

    I think he's right - there are a lot of good people who watch Fox News. It takes guts - and leadership - to reach out in a venue where you know many will reflexively be against you.

  22. #52
    This article noting how millennials are way behind previous generations in many ways may be why so many are looking at socialism as a way of leveling the playing field.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/pers...DLe?li=BBnbfcN

  23. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    This article noting how millennials are way behind previous generations in many ways may be why so many are looking at socialism as a way of leveling the playing field.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/pers...DLe?li=BBnbfcN
    This is a problem long anticipated since my college days that at that time was attributed to the relative size of baby boomers to other generations. That size is compounded by the fact that that generation is marked by excess and little to no savings and debt into the time of their lives they should be debt free.

    I remember on economics professor saying, "good luck to you guys wanting to get an executive level position in your 40s... you are going to need a lot of people to die, because the boomers are going to have to cling to their positions well past retirement age."

    I look at the starter home prices today and wonder how anyone gets a starter home. Someday though will be a glut of real estate as the boomers look to downsize from their McMansions.

    Utah however has a population makeup that will help insulate it from a lot of these challenges. Our demographic makeup resembles 1950s America with the percentage of married couples and children.


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  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    .....I look at the starter home prices today and wonder how anyone gets a starter home. Someday though will be a glut of real estate as the boomers look to downsize from their McMansions.....
    Ran into this article just today.....


    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/real...SPu?li=BBnb7Kz
    Last edited by LA Ute; 05-22-2019 at 03:07 PM.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  25. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    This article noting how millennials are way behind previous generations in many ways may be why so many are looking at socialism as a way of leveling the playing field.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/pers...DLe?li=BBnbfcN
    This is the heart of the issue. The magnitude of the Great Recession and associated decade-long recovery have put a big dent in the reputation of our economic system.

  26. #56
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Advice to the Dems from an Obama campaign executive.

    I Helped Obama Win in 2012. Now Trump Is Using the Same Playbook.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...can-do/591265/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  27. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Advice to the Dems from an Obama campaign executive.

    I Helped Obama Win in 2012. Now Trump Is Using the Same Playbook.
    Trump is definitely in general campaign mode, has been since Jan 2017.

    A lot can happen between now & fall 2020. Definitely some storm clouds on the horizon, economically.

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