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Thread: The Russell Nelson Era: Changes in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I fear for you, brother. You are on the high road to apostasy.
    Yes, I think things are amiss in the land of sancho. They probably have candles on the sacrament table too.




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  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Exactly. The activities committee works under the direction of the ward council. You read it again, and you see there's nothing there to outlaw an activities committee.



    I'm not sure what you mean by synced and progression. I hope there aren't badges, ranks, etc. Just good activities. My brothers' ward in Boise does the following for YM:

    Week 1: combined with YW
    Week 2: game night (could be sport or board games)
    Week 3: service (mostly service to other ward members)
    Week 4: skills night
    I think you need to read it again my friend.

    I was an EQP when they came out with the new handbooks and discontinued the standing activities committee, which I didn't care for at the time.

    If you don't believe me, here is the press release at the time:

    https://www.lds.org/church/news/new-...ining?lang=eng

    ...Other changes of note include... eliminating a standing ward activities committee and handling activities through the ward council..."
    But I actually agree that this is the type of micromanagement that will hopefully go away. If it works for your ward go for it... and as I mentioned I wish it would come back for the benefits I mentioned. I doubt my bishop will go off script for this though, he thinks he has bigger battles to fight and is a mostly harmless weirdo.


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  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    If it works for your ward go for it.
    It's not my call. I just enjoy pointing out that there is more flexibility here than y'all believe.

  4. #34
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    It's not my call. I just enjoy pointing out that there is more flexibility here than y'all believe.
    That’s what Thomas B. Marsh said.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    That’s what Thomas B. Marsh said.
    I bet his bishop wears light blue shirts to church.


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  6. #36
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I bet his bishop wears light blue shirts to church.


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    ...and is a Ute fan.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #37
    There was a headline about a month ago: "Researchers say the first person to live to 150 may already have been born." Somebody tweeted "Lets hope it is RBG." Maybe it is RMN.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Not a fan of made up callings, I hope that if the intent is like you mentioned (which isn't a bad thing) I hope they explain it that way - that not everybody will have a calling - because sometimes people feel left out if they don't have one.

    My bold predictions, based off of nothing else but observed necessity:

    1. The new youth program will be big - and great because it will equalize what is going on between young men and young women
    2. Elimination of unnecessary stake callings
    3. More emphasis on callings and positions that give women more leadership positions, why can't a woman be a ward mission leader, sunday school president, financial clerk, etc
    4. More family history and temple work integration
    5. More tweaks to take some unnecessary stuff off of bishop's shoulders
    6. More tweaks to allow for decision making to be made at a ward level (de-emphasis on correlation)
    I agree with pretty much everything here, but especially the statement on made-up callings. I've been there. It's demeaning and frustrating. In pretty much everything in life I HATE the concept of doing something just for show. I've had a couple of jobs where there was a culture of staying late at the office pushing papers around just to give the appearance of working really hard and I can't run from those type of situations fast enough. I feel the same way about 80% of meetings--just send me an email with the key information and I'll come to you with questions if needed.

    I've been wondering recently if it says in the handbook that women can't be in the Sunday School presidency or that men can't be in the Primary presidency. I think both of those would be healthy moves, but I think you'd have to have all men or all women rather than a combination because of the need for small group (presidency) meetings. I also think that small group meeting is what may prevent a female financial clerk. I've got about 6-7 years as a financial clerk under my belt. There wasn't a lot of closed door meeting (processing donations after church was always done with the door open) but it still does lend itself to a lot of one-on-one. I just don't think the church would want to create something where a man and woman were spending that much time together in close proximity.

  9. #39
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UBlender View Post
    I feel the same way about 80% of meetings--just send me an email with the key information and I'll come to you with questions if needed.
    Elder Holland visited our stake in L.A. years ago, just before he became an apostle. In the priesthood leadership meeting he said, "We've raised up a generation in the church that thinks the way to serve the Lord is to go to a meeting." That's exactly what he said; I've always remembered it, and I remember wanting to stand up and cheer when he said it. This latest change in the Sunday block will help move us away from that kind of thinking, I hope. Stake auxiliaries, for example, are the most meeting-inclined leaders in the church. Reduce those, and we reduce lots and lots of meetings.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by UBlender View Post
    I agree with pretty much everything here, but especially the statement on made-up callings. I've been there. It's demeaning and frustrating. In pretty much everything in life I HATE the concept of doing something just for show. I've had a couple of jobs where there was a culture of staying late at the office pushing papers around just to give the appearance of working really hard and I can't run from those type of situations fast enough. I feel the same way about 80% of meetings--just send me an email with the key information and I'll come to you with questions if needed.

    I've been wondering recently if it says in the handbook that women can't be in the Sunday School presidency or that men can't be in the Primary presidency. I think both of those would be healthy moves, but I think you'd have to have all men or all women rather than a combination because of the need for small group (presidency) meetings. I also think that small group meeting is what may prevent a female financial clerk. I've got about 6-7 years as a financial clerk under my belt. There wasn't a lot of closed door meeting (processing donations after church was always done with the door open) but it still does lend itself to a lot of one-on-one. I just don't think the church would want to create something where a man and woman were spending that much time together in close proximity.
    I agree on the close proximity issue but I think there are ways to accommodate that, similar to how the money is currently handled (nobody is ever alone handling it).

    Sorry I couldn't resist.

    But honestly the point really is that I hope they are looking for more ways that women can lead, because the church is missing out. This is not pandering, it is fact, the relief society runs circles around the elders quorum in any ward I've been in. They know how to get stuff done and done right and like LA mentioned regarding Elder Holland they were never lulled into thinking that attending a meeting was worship.


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  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    But honestly the point really is that I hope they are looking for more ways that women can lead, because the church is missing out. This is not pandering, it is fact, the relief society runs circles around the elders quorum in any ward I've been in. They know how to get stuff done and done right and like LA mentioned regarding Elder Holland they were never lulled into thinking that attending a meeting was worship.
    I know this is what we are supposed to say about the RS, but I think it's okay to say that men can do a good job too. I've seen effectiveness/ineffectiveness in both EQs and RSs. My wife has had callings with unnecessary meetings just like I have. She has also given meaningful service just like I have.

    There are currently many great ways for women to lead in the church. If there are even more ways in the future, that's great. I'm not sure making women clerks or sunday school presidents really increases the effectiveness of many wards, though.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I know this is what we are supposed to say about the RS, but I think it's okay to say that men can do a good job too. I've seen effectiveness/ineffectiveness in both EQs and RSs. My wife has had callings with unnecessary meetings just like I have. She has also given meaningful service just like I have.

    There are currently many great ways for women to lead in the church. If there are even more ways in the future, that's great. I'm not sure making women clerks or sunday school presidents really increases the effectiveness of many wards, though.
    I'm not saying that because I'm supposed to, I'm saying it because it is by and large reality.

    But then again, maybe if we had a standing activities committee...


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  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I'm not saying that because I'm supposed to, I'm saying it because it is by and large reality.
    I can't really relate. I've had great and not-as-great leaders of both genders.

    But it definitely is part of Mormon culture (maybe American culture?) to put down the men in a joking fashion and to praise the women.

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I can't really relate. I've had great and not-as-great leaders of both genders.
    Of course, who hasn't?

    But it definitely is part of Mormon culture (maybe American culture?) to put down the men in a joking fashion and to praise the women.
    Some might call that sort of pandering to women part of the patriarchy, but that isn't where I am coming from and I also don't recall putting men down. I'm also talking collectively and not individually.

    Forgive me if I admire how many women I know live their faith and for wanting for them to be able to share their talents in more substantive ways. That's all I'm really saying, so I'm not sure why you are pouncing on it.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Some might call that sort of pandering to women part of the patriarchy, but that isn't where I am coming from and I also don't recall putting men down. I'm also talking collectively and not individually.

    Forgive me if I admire how many women I know live their faith and for wanting for them to be able to share their talents in more substantive ways. That's all I'm really saying, so I'm not sure why you are pouncing on it.
    Sorry for pouncing. It wasn't my intention.

    I also value women highly. Women can obviously do a great job as clerks, SS presidents, ward mission leaders, or any other calling.

    I suspect that if you ask the women you are referring to, they probably already believe they are able to share their talents in substantive ways. I hope they believe that because it's true.

  16. #46
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Russell Nelson Era: Changes in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

    I’ve been thinking about this and it occurs to me that with so many people freed up from eliminated callings, and so many temples being built, the newly-available members might be specially asked to serve in temples. The amount of temple work getting done could skyrocket. That is fine with me. Working in the temple is actual service, much more than sitting in a meeting.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 01-09-2019 at 06:09 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  17. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Sorry for pouncing. It wasn't my intention.

    I also value women highly. Women can obviously do a great job as clerks, SS presidents, ward mission leaders, or any other calling.

    I suspect that if you ask the women you are referring to, they probably already believe they are able to share their talents in substantive ways. I hope they believe that because it's true.
    I probably view it more this way:

    Long before the merger of the HP and EQ my dad and I were talking and he asked me what the difference was between a HP and an Elder. There is really no difference except a HP is called to preside. He asked what all of those HP were presiding over? Nothing. He then pointed out that the scriptures state there can be up to 96 people in an EQ - in other words they are intended to be large by design. He was ahead of his time because he said he thought that when a Melch Priesthood holder was called to preside they should move to the office of HP, and then return to the EQ when they are done - exactly what is happening now. He pointed out the both the old guys and the young guys could benefit from the intermingling.

    So when I suggest I'd like to see women given more opportunity to lead, it is that same sort of mutual benefit - not to say that they don't contribute a lot already or have meaningful ways to serve, just that we have a lot that we can learn from each other given those types of opportunities.

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