The Russell Nelson Era: Changes in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

[Scorcho]

I'm with you as well - my international experience was terrific for me

it was always disheartening when the attractive girl asked where you went on your mission and you mumbled some obscure state in the Midwest. She was already looking elsewhere for the missionaries who spoke French or Portuguese.

What's it like to have pride in where you served?

And deep, deep down I always thought maybe I wasn't smart enough to learn a foreign language or God didn't trust me to leave the country.

I may or may not have some unresolved issues about this.

[chrisrenrut]

it was always disheartening when the attractive girl asked where you went on your mission and you mumbled some obscure state in the Midwest. She was already looking elsewhere for the missionaries who spoke French or Portuguese.

What's it like to have pride in where you served?

And deep, deep down I always thought maybe I wasn't smart enough to learn a foreign language or God didn't trust me to leave the country.

I may or may not have some unresolved issues about this.

Missionaries called to English speaking missions were those who had already proved their valiance in the pre-mortal or pre-mission life. They had no more need for the refiner's fire.

I may or may have not have already resolved personal issue about this.

[Scratch]

When I was a teenager, my ward would occasionally have sacrament meetings where parents (usually moms) of all the missionaries out from our ward would basically give updates and share some of their missionary's experiences. It inevitably turned into a brag-fest about everything the missionaries were doing. I don't know if the moms were trying to one-up each other, but it sure felt like that.

In order to properly decide who was winning, my friends and I (mostly) jokingly came up with with a test for weighing various accomplishments. You had to factor in how long the missionary had been out, if and when they became a senior companion, trainer, district leader, zone leader, or AP. Then you had to factor that by where they were serving, with the foreign speaking third-world countries getting the most credit, followed by foreign-speaking-first-world countries, foreign-speaking in America, foreign English speaking, and English-speaking in America, all in that order (although I can't quite remember the order for foreign English speaking and U.S. non-English). While we were joking around, it certainly showed how teenage boys preparing for missions viewed the different mission calls.

[sancho]

it was always disheartening when the attractive girl asked where you went on your mission and you mumbled some obscure state in the Midwest. She was already looking elsewhere for the missionaries who spoke French or Portuguese.

If it helps, my Spanish was not enough to make me attractive to the ladies.

I did win the mission lottery though. I spent 1 year climbing around the Andes mountains and 1 year in Lima. I ate like a king (no other missions in the world compare to Latin America for quality and quantity of food), and each preparation day was like a new adventure out of National Geographic. I arrived in Peru shortly after the Shining Path terrorists were defeated. There was a solid decade of no North American tourism, so I was a total novelty/celebrity. It was a tremendous spiritual experience, but it was also an amazing cultural experience.

As a nerd, there were 0 women in my classes at the U. As a senior, I finally decided to take something else just to see if I could meet girls. I signed up for French I, and of the 18 students, I was the only guy. It was a great class. In language classes, they pair you up all the time for practice. I got to know all the ladies...but I was still too shy to ask any of them out . The teacher was a grad student in French who had served a mission in Tahiti. I'm pretty sure she wanted me to ask her out after the semester ended, but, again, too shy back then.

[concerned]

If it helps, my Spanish was not enough to make me attractive to the ladies.

I did win the mission lottery though. I spent 1 year climbing around the Andes mountains and 1 year in Lima. I ate like a king (no other missions in the world compare to Latin America for quality and quantity of food), and each preparation day was like a new adventure out of National Geographic. I arrived in Peru shortly after the Shining Path terrorists were defeated. There was a solid decade of no North American tourism, so I was a total novelty/celebrity. It was a tremendous spiritual experience, but it was also an amazing cultural experience.

As a nerd, there were 0 women in my classes at the U. As a senior, I finally decided to take something else just to see if I could meet girls. I signed up for French I, and of the 18 students, I was the only guy. It was a great class. In language classes, they pair you up all the time for practice. I got to know all the ladies...but I was still too shy to ask any of them out . The teacher was a grad student in French who had served a mission in Tahiti. I'm pretty sure she wanted me to ask her out after the semester ended, but, again, too shy back then.

Was this 1985? I hiked the Inca trail right after the Sendero Luminoso (?) blew up the train to Macho Piccu. No Americans, but lots of Germans.

[sancho]

Was this 1985? I hiked the Inca trail right after the Sendero Luminoso (?) blew up the train to Macho Piccu. No Americans, but lots of Germans.

I should have written that there was a solid decade of no north american missionaries in Peru. I arrived in 1996, which is a year after the church started sending north americans there again. There were 120 missionaries in my mission, and only 7 were north american.

When I say I was a novelty/celebrity, I was referring mostly to my status within the LDS Church.

Callao is not a tourist city at all. It is a port city. The people there had not seen north american sailors for a long time. They had dealt with Russian sailors, though, and many people in Callao assumed I was Russian. I got called "Ruso" on a routine basis.

By the time I arrived in Cusco in 1997, the people in Inca country were used to American tourists but still not used to North American missionaries. In every ward/branch I served in, I was the first American there in over a decade.

Anyway, that's pretty amazing that you were there in 1985. I thought our tourism was basically nonexistent at that time.

When I was serving in Ollantaytambo, my companion and I would try to guess the country of origin of tourists before talking with them. It was a fun game.

[LA Ute]

Was this 1985? I hiked the Inca trail right after the Sendero Luminoso (?) blew up the train to Macho Piccu. No Americans, but lots of Germans.

These assassinations probably had a lot to do with reductions in North American missionary activity in the country:

Two Mormon missionaries killed in Peru

This was 1990. I remember feeling shocked and very sad (not to mention angry). These victims were Peruvians, and it was the Shining Path that murdered them, but the year before two North Americans were murdered in Bolivia by another radical leftist group. The two elders were opening the door to their apartment when the killers shot them -- surely after lying in wait for them.

Imagine being the families of those four missionaries.

[Rocker Ute]

With GC coming in less than two weeks, the rumor mill of impending changes is at an all-time high. I think a lot of these rumors are actually just people's wish lists, but I'm curious what people have been hearing is coming down the pipeline.

FWIW - We had a GA at our last Stake Conference and in the adult meeting he mentioned that he expected the new youth program that encompasses everything for both YM/YW 8 and up would be announced in March of this year - since the month is almost over - will that be the big reveal in GC? He was also in charge of the church handbooks and told us to throw away our paper copies they had been so drastically revamped.

[sancho]

With GC coming in less than two weeks, the rumor mill of impending changes is at an all-time high. I think a lot of these rumors are actually just people's wish lists, but I'm curious what people have been hearing is coming down the pipeline.

Every rumor I've heard:

- Removal of stake auxillaries
- Shorter missions, missions only within home nation
- Coffee/tea will be removed from Word of Wisdom
- Garments will be temple clothes only

Hmmm, I guess I haven't heard that many. I'm not very connected to rumor mills, though. This board is my primary source.

Of the rumors I listed, I think I'm only hoping for the first one. The others are all meh.

[sancho]

FWIW - We had a GA at our last Stake Conference and in the adult meeting he mentioned that he expected the new youth program that encompasses everything for both YM/YW 8 and up would be announced in March of this year - since the month is almost over - will that be the big reveal in GC? He was also in charge of the church handbooks and told us to throw away our paper copies they had been so drastically revamped.

If they announce it in March, I would think we'd just transition immediately instead of waiting until January. We're in limbo now, not knowing really what to plan.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Every rumor I've heard:

- Removal of stake auxillaries
- Shorter missions, missions only within home nation
- Coffee/tea will be removed from Word of Wisdom
- Garments will be temple clothes only

Hmmm, I guess I haven't heard that many. I'm not very connected to rumor mills, though. This board is my primary source.

Of the rumors I listed, I think I'm only hoping for the first one. The others are all meh.

Man, I'd be thrilled about this one for both me and my wife. I work outside a bunch during the summer and even though I opt out of garments more and more these days, I'd love to do without the guilt hesitation. Also, I'd take my wife's pre-endowment underwear choices over her post-endowment underwear choices anytime.

Having said that, I give the possibility of that happening about 2%.

[Rocker Ute]

If they announce it in March, I would think we'd just transition immediately instead of waiting until January. We're in limbo now, not knowing really what to plan.

I think the big challenge would be learning what the new program is and implementing it. Particularly if what the YM and YW do is parallel, and if it encompasses both Primary and the Youth Organizations - and has a scouting component to it... that might take some time to learn and do. For example when they dropped HT/VT in April they gave until August to fully implement.


However, they have sent around a letter regarding scouting and basically June is the cut off and when they've given scouts permission to go do their own thing, but there is to be no recruiting of leaders, and no use of the building for scout purposes after the end of the year.

[sancho]

I think the big challenge would be learning what the new program is and implementing it. Particularly if what the YM and YW do is parallel, and if it encompasses both Primary and the Youth Organizations - and has a scouting component to it... that might take some time to learn and do. For example when they dropped HT/VT in April they gave until August to fully implement.


However, they have sent around a letter regarding scouting and basically June is the cut off and when they've given scouts permission to go do their own thing, but there is to be no recruiting of leaders, and no use of the building for scout purposes after the end of the year.

Well, I hope your rumor about announcing something is correct. It would be nice to have some direction. Right now, we are trying to do the following in YM:

Week 1: combine with YW
Week 2: service project
Week 3: game night
Week 4: skills night

It's a pretty good system, but it's very hard to come up with service projects in the winter.

Some leaders want more Saturday excursions, some don't want any. My son is in YM, so I like the idea of cool Saturday excursions (biking, hiking). But I can understand that other leaders want to keep their saturdays free.

[LA Ute]

With GC coming in less than two weeks, the rumor mill of impending changes is at an all-time high. I think a lot of these rumors are actually just people's wish lists, but I'm curious what people have been hearing is coming down the pipeline.

FWIW - We had a GA at our last Stake Conference and in the adult meeting he mentioned that he expected the new youth program that encompasses everything for both YM/YW 8 and up would be announced in March of this year - since the month is almost over - will that be the big reveal in GC? He was also in charge of the church handbooks and told us to throw away our paper copies they had been so drastically revamped.

I heard that a huge new building is going up across the street from Temple Square. It will house all the rumors that have emerged in the last 12 months.

[Rocker Ute]

Well, I hope your rumor about announcing something is correct. It would be nice to have some direction. Right now, we are trying to do the following in YM:

Week 1: combine with YW
Week 2: service project
Week 3: game night
Week 4: skills night

It's a pretty good system, but it's very hard to come up with service projects in the winter.

Some leaders want more Saturday excursions, some don't want any. My son is in YM, so I like the idea of cool Saturday excursions (biking, hiking). But I can understand that other leaders want to keep their saturdays free.

Tangental, but when it comes to non-weekday-night activities, the leaders who like doing these are the ones who seem to make the real difference. This doesn't mean that you have to do this regularly, but we have a leader who will frequently just email the YM and say, "Hey, next Saturday me and a couple leaders want to go mountain biking with you guys... if you can make it great, but no worries if you can't." Or "Who wants to go to the temple at 5am this next Wednesday with me!" Surprisingly kids show up and the kids LOVE this guy. He is a nice guy, but not over the top personality. During the activities he doesn't really do anything extraordinary - but the kids know he cares about them and that he LIKES being with them, versus being simply assigned. It has made all the difference.

[Utebiquitous]

Rocker,
A friend who works in the big building commented to me recently and it relates to your point about effective leaders. He never said that the weeknight for YM/YW would change from weekly but he did say that the church is allowing and even encouraging flexibility in a number of areas. There are stakes/wards who are not meeting weekly. They'll meet one week and then the leaders will do "ministering" visits the following week to quorum members. They may be visits in the home or other activites focused on one or a couple of YM/YW. This is also encouraging more activities like you mention - leaders feeling like they have the time to just go and be with YM/YW at other times of the week.

I emphasize we weren't talking new policy/practice. He was just telling me how some are dealing with the current schedule and affirmed that church leadership was fine and even encouraging of greater flexibility.

[LA Ute]

Rocker,
A friend who works in the big building commented to me recently and it relates to your point about effective leaders. He never said that the weeknight for YM/YW would change from weekly but he did say that the church is allowing and even encouraging flexibility in a number of areas. There are stakes/wards who are not meeting weekly. They'll meet one week and then the leaders will do "ministering" visits the following week to quorum members. They may be visits in the home or other activites focused on one or a couple of YM/YW. This is also encouraging more activities like you mention - leaders feeling like they have the time to just go and be with YM/YW at other times of the week.

I emphasize we weren't talking new policy/practice. He was just telling me how some are dealing with the current schedule and affirmed that church leadership was fine and even encouraging of greater flexibility.

In our ward we've been assigned areas to serve and minister to -- everyone in the area, members or not. I basically have my street. The assignment is both ambiguous and exciting.

[Scorcho]

Man, I'd be thrilled about this one for both me and my wife. I work outside a bunch during the summer and even though I opt out of garments more and more these days, I'd love to do without the guilt hesitation. Also, I'd take my wife's pre-endowment underwear choices over her post-endowment underwear choices anytime.

Having said that, I give the possibility of that happening about 2%.

how have you not been killed or maimed by a possessed rake or out of control leaf blower

My last underwear purchase I mistakenly bought extra short garments. Don't do it, you might be able to get away with wearing John Stockton like shorts but they ride up like they think they're internal organs.

[UTEopia]

I know they have been testing some dri-fit garments.

[Rocker Ute]

I know they have been testing some dri-fit garments.

New styles online as we speak.


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[UtahsMrSports]

My go-to source for conference rumors is @TheStakeClerk. He (mostly) nailed it with the 2 hour church.

He is hearing that we are going to see a sharp uptick in the number of temples.

[LA Ute]

He is hearing that we are going to see a sharp uptick in the number of temples.

FWIW, we have a current GA in our ward who says the same thing.

[concerned]

FWIW, we have a current GA in our ward who says the same thing.

According to some in my book group, the coffee/tea WOW rumor has legs, because the ban is inhibiting missionary work in Asia. In their work, they interface with higher-ups in the Church, so they might be on to something.

[Scratch]

According to some in my book group, the coffee/tea WOW rumor has legs, because the ban is inhibiting missionary work in Asia. In their work, they interface with higher-ups in the Church, so they might be on to something.

I could easily see them saying that the word of wisdom prohibitions are not barriers to baptism or full membership in good standing for converts. That would actually track the history of the WOW, where it was initially just general advice that was later turned to a commandment after the church's membership had had the opportunity to acclimate to it. In other words, it would essentially be a micro, individual implementation of that historical macro principle.

[concerned]

I could easily see them saying that the word of wisdom prohibitions are not barriers to baptism or full membership in good standing for converts. That would actually track the history of the WOW, where it was initially just general advice that was later turned to a commandment after the church's membership had had the opportunity to acclimate to it. In other words, it would essentially be a micro, individual implementation of that historical macro principle.

You could be baptized, you can go to temple, but you still couldn't go to BYU.

[Scratch]

You could be baptized, you can go to temple, but you still couldn't go to BYU.

So it would have multiple blessings for those individuals.

[concerned]

So it would have multiple blessings for those individuals.

But it will hurt the Asian BYU sports TV market

[Rocker Ute]

You could be baptized, you can go to temple, but you still couldn't go to BYU.

Just like a beard AND independent thought!


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[LA Ute]

From the inimitable Jana Reiss:

Mormons will soon drink coffee! Debunking a dubious General Conference rumor

[sancho]

From the inimitable Jana Reiss:

Should I know this name?