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Thread: The Russell Nelson Era: Changes in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Not a fan of made up callings, I hope that if the intent is like you mentioned (which isn't a bad thing) I hope they explain it that way - that not everybody will have a calling - because sometimes people feel left out if they don't have one.

    My bold predictions, based off of nothing else but observed necessity:

    1. The new youth program will be big - and great because it will equalize what is going on between young men and young women
    2. Elimination of unnecessary stake callings
    3. More emphasis on callings and positions that give women more leadership positions, why can't a woman be a ward mission leader, sunday school president, financial clerk, etc
    4. More family history and temple work integration
    5. More tweaks to take some unnecessary stuff off of bishop's shoulders
    6. More tweaks to allow for decision making to be made at a ward level (de-emphasis on correlation)
    I agree with pretty much everything here, but especially the statement on made-up callings. I've been there. It's demeaning and frustrating. In pretty much everything in life I HATE the concept of doing something just for show. I've had a couple of jobs where there was a culture of staying late at the office pushing papers around just to give the appearance of working really hard and I can't run from those type of situations fast enough. I feel the same way about 80% of meetings--just send me an email with the key information and I'll come to you with questions if needed.

    I've been wondering recently if it says in the handbook that women can't be in the Sunday School presidency or that men can't be in the Primary presidency. I think both of those would be healthy moves, but I think you'd have to have all men or all women rather than a combination because of the need for small group (presidency) meetings. I also think that small group meeting is what may prevent a female financial clerk. I've got about 6-7 years as a financial clerk under my belt. There wasn't a lot of closed door meeting (processing donations after church was always done with the door open) but it still does lend itself to a lot of one-on-one. I just don't think the church would want to create something where a man and woman were spending that much time together in close proximity.

  2. #32
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UBlender View Post
    I feel the same way about 80% of meetings--just send me an email with the key information and I'll come to you with questions if needed.
    Elder Holland visited our stake in L.A. years ago, just before he became an apostle. In the priesthood leadership meeting he said, "We've raised up a generation in the church that thinks the way to serve the Lord is to go to a meeting." That's exactly what he said; I've always remembered it, and I remember wanting to stand up and cheer when he said it. This latest change in the Sunday block will help move us away from that kind of thinking, I hope. Stake auxiliaries, for example, are the most meeting-inclined leaders in the church. Reduce those, and we reduce lots and lots of meetings.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by UBlender View Post
    I agree with pretty much everything here, but especially the statement on made-up callings. I've been there. It's demeaning and frustrating. In pretty much everything in life I HATE the concept of doing something just for show. I've had a couple of jobs where there was a culture of staying late at the office pushing papers around just to give the appearance of working really hard and I can't run from those type of situations fast enough. I feel the same way about 80% of meetings--just send me an email with the key information and I'll come to you with questions if needed.

    I've been wondering recently if it says in the handbook that women can't be in the Sunday School presidency or that men can't be in the Primary presidency. I think both of those would be healthy moves, but I think you'd have to have all men or all women rather than a combination because of the need for small group (presidency) meetings. I also think that small group meeting is what may prevent a female financial clerk. I've got about 6-7 years as a financial clerk under my belt. There wasn't a lot of closed door meeting (processing donations after church was always done with the door open) but it still does lend itself to a lot of one-on-one. I just don't think the church would want to create something where a man and woman were spending that much time together in close proximity.
    I agree on the close proximity issue but I think there are ways to accommodate that, similar to how the money is currently handled (nobody is ever alone handling it).

    Sorry I couldn't resist.

    But honestly the point really is that I hope they are looking for more ways that women can lead, because the church is missing out. This is not pandering, it is fact, the relief society runs circles around the elders quorum in any ward I've been in. They know how to get stuff done and done right and like LA mentioned regarding Elder Holland they were never lulled into thinking that attending a meeting was worship.


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  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I know this is what we are supposed to say about the RS, but I think it's okay to say that men can do a good job too. I've seen effectiveness/ineffectiveness in both EQs and RSs. My wife has had callings with unnecessary meetings just like I have. She has also given meaningful service just like I have.

    There are currently many great ways for women to lead in the church. If there are even more ways in the future, that's great. I'm not sure making women clerks or sunday school presidents really increases the effectiveness of many wards, though.
    I'm not saying that because I'm supposed to, I'm saying it because it is by and large reality.

    But then again, maybe if we had a standing activities committee...


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  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I can't really relate. I've had great and not-as-great leaders of both genders.
    Of course, who hasn't?

    But it definitely is part of Mormon culture (maybe American culture?) to put down the men in a joking fashion and to praise the women.
    Some might call that sort of pandering to women part of the patriarchy, but that isn't where I am coming from and I also don't recall putting men down. I'm also talking collectively and not individually.

    Forgive me if I admire how many women I know live their faith and for wanting for them to be able to share their talents in more substantive ways. That's all I'm really saying, so I'm not sure why you are pouncing on it.

  6. #36
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Russell Nelson Era: Changes in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

    I’ve been thinking about this and it occurs to me that with so many people freed up from eliminated callings, and so many temples being built, the newly-available members might be specially asked to serve in temples. The amount of temple work getting done could skyrocket. That is fine with me. Working in the temple is actual service, much more than sitting in a meeting.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 01-09-2019 at 05:09 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Sorry for pouncing. It wasn't my intention.

    I also value women highly. Women can obviously do a great job as clerks, SS presidents, ward mission leaders, or any other calling.

    I suspect that if you ask the women you are referring to, they probably already believe they are able to share their talents in substantive ways. I hope they believe that because it's true.
    I probably view it more this way:

    Long before the merger of the HP and EQ my dad and I were talking and he asked me what the difference was between a HP and an Elder. There is really no difference except a HP is called to preside. He asked what all of those HP were presiding over? Nothing. He then pointed out that the scriptures state there can be up to 96 people in an EQ - in other words they are intended to be large by design. He was ahead of his time because he said he thought that when a Melch Priesthood holder was called to preside they should move to the office of HP, and then return to the EQ when they are done - exactly what is happening now. He pointed out the both the old guys and the young guys could benefit from the intermingling.

    So when I suggest I'd like to see women given more opportunity to lead, it is that same sort of mutual benefit - not to say that they don't contribute a lot already or have meaningful ways to serve, just that we have a lot that we can learn from each other given those types of opportunities.

  8. #38
    I was speaking with some friends the other day who were really upset that their daughter did not get accepted at the BYU and it got me thinking again about the future of BYU. How long can the Church justify supplementing the cost of the education of a small percentage of the college age members of the Church. I'm guessing there are maybe 50k who attend the BYU's each year and probably at least 1m who are in that age group. Those who attend BYU have done well in school and on tests and would likely be able to receive scholarships at other institutions. Many are from the higher socio-economic classes. Then you have the rest of the people. Kids in Nairobi who cannot go to high school because it costs more than their families make in a year. At some point the Church needs to see the inequality of their actions. I would love to see the Church take an amount of money equal to what they provide to BYU and make it available for scholarships to people to attend their local universities and trade schools. The Church could require those applying to have a Bishop's letter, sign an honor code and enroll in and attend the local institute. President Nelson needs to make this happen.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I was speaking with some friends the other day who were really upset that their daughter did not get accepted at the BYU and it got me thinking again about the future of BYU. How long can the Church justify supplementing the cost of the education of a small percentage of the college age members of the Church. I'm guessing there are maybe 50k who attend the BYU's each year and probably at least 1m who are in that age group. Those who attend BYU have done well in school and on tests and would likely be able to receive scholarships at other institutions. Many are from the higher socio-economic classes. Then you have the rest of the people. Kids in Nairobi who cannot go to high school because it costs more than their families make in a year. At some point the Church needs to see the inequality of their actions. I would love to see the Church take an amount of money equal to what they provide to BYU and make it available for scholarships to people to attend their local universities and trade schools. The Church could require those applying to have a Bishop's letter, sign an honor code and enroll in and attend the local institute. President Nelson needs to make this happen.
    We've had this same discussion in my family. BYU is a school for the privileged now (which is a long shot from where it was 30 years ago).

    My guess is the BYU Pathways program is going to see much more emphasis and focus (and will go a long way to providing education to the impoverished).


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  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    BYU is a school for the privileged now
    With a tuition like a community college. Just charge the privileged a regular tuition already!

    I hate the drain on local schools. So many institutes across the country have dwindled to nothing as the BYU monster eats up college age LDS kids. The leftover kids struggle in the absence of an LDS support network. This creates a negative feedback loop where the stats show that BYU grads are more likely to stay active in the church.

  11. #41
    The church already has the perpetual education fund to help those in need attend college or work training. I think it just needs a little more emphasis placed on it.

    The church will not change the BYU model, it is exactly what they want it to be.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Sullyute View Post
    The church will not change the BYU model, it is exactly what they want it to be.
    Well, yeah, but that doesn't mean I can't lament the downsides. And the church knows this model comes with downsides. They just think the upside is worth it.

  13. #43
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sullyute View Post
    The church will not change the BYU model, it is exactly what they want it to be.
    Kind of a finishing school for the faith's best and brightest (mostly those growing up outside Utah)? Also a place to meet and marry, and to form connections that will last after school? And a way to establish an employment network for LDS grads? All of those are extra-educational goals for BYU, it seems to me. One danger is the creation of a sort of elitist aristocracy. That would include a lot of young people who think they're better than others, and that they graduated from an elite school (which is hard to get into because so many highly-qualified LDS kids want to go there, not necessarily because the education itself is elite). When I am recruiting law students from both Utah and BYU I find excellent candidates at both places and we have hired many from both, but I am often amused at the way BYU law students talk about how elite their school is.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Kind of a finishing school for the faith's best and brightest (mostly those growing up outside Utah)? Also a place to meet and marry, and to form connections that will last after school? And a way to establish an employment network for LDS grads? All of those are extra-educational goals for BYU, it seems to me. One danger is the creation of a sort of elitist aristocracy. That would include a lot of young people who think they're better than others, and that they graduated from an elite school (which is hard to get into because so many highly-qualified LDS kids want to go there, not necessarily because the education itself is elite). When I am recruiting law students from both Utah and BYU I find excellent candidates at both places and we have hired many from both, but I am often amused at the way BYU law students talk about how elite their school is.
    Why do you hire them? You are less petty than I am.

    Why do you say "mostly those growing up outside Utah"? I assume BYU still has a pretty high percentage of Utahns?

    I went hiking with a church friend on Sat. Some of his kids have gone to BYU. He says at graduation, they have spouses and kids walk along with the graduate? "Walking with Skyler is his wife Brianna and their two kids Jaxsyn and Maydyn." Is that real? How did I never hear about that before? So, yeah, a place to meet and marry is a big part of it all.

    I think the elitist aristocracy is real in the years immediately after high school. I've had missionaries use false modesty and say they go to school in Utah instead of saying they go to BYU (as if it were AJ telling people he goes to school in Boston). But the aristocracy dies out shortly after college age, when said elitist is the 2nd counselor in the ward sunday school presidency. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've had almost no BYU alumni in my church leadership.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Sullyute View Post
    The church already has the perpetual education fund to help those in need attend college or work training. I think it just needs a little more emphasis placed on it.

    The church will not change the BYU model, it is exactly what they want it to be.
    The perpetual education fund is all but dead. It was a loan program and the loans did not get repaid. Maybe BYU tuition breaks should be a loan program.

  16. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Kind of a finishing school for the faith's best and brightest (mostly those growing up outside Utah)? Also a place to meet and marry, and to form connections that will last after school? And a way to establish an employment network for LDS grads? All of those are extra-educational goals for BYU, it seems to me. One danger is the creation of a sort of elitist aristocracy. That would include a lot of young people who think they're better than others, and that they graduated from an elite school (which is hard to get into because so many highly-qualified LDS kids want to go there, not necessarily because the education itself is elite). When I am recruiting law students from both Utah and BYU I find excellent candidates at both places and we have hired many from both, but I am often amused at the way BYU law students talk about how elite their school is.
    But it could still provide all of those benefits without the insanely low tuition (at least for those who don't need it). You'd still fill up the enrollment numbers with plenty qualified kids (although it would drop a little bit, but not much, if the rich kids had to pay full freight), but then could use whatever's left for kids around the world who really need it.

  17. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Kind of a finishing school for the faith's best and brightest (mostly those growing up outside Utah)? Also a place to meet and marry, and to form connections that will last after school? And a way to establish an employment network for LDS grads? All of those are extra-educational goals for BYU, it seems to me. One danger is the creation of a sort of elitist aristocracy. That would include a lot of young people who think they're better than others, and that they graduated from an elite school (which is hard to get into because so many highly-qualified LDS kids want to go there, not necessarily because the education itself is elite). When I am recruiting law students from both Utah and BYU I find excellent candidates at both places and we have hired many from both, but I am often amused at the way BYU law students talk about how elite their school is.
    Unfortunately, the idea of continuing to fund BYU in this day and age when the Church is truly a world-wide Church is the result of too many in higher Church leadership who view themselves, probably unconsciously, as an aristocracy. There was a group in our prior Stake who dominated Stake leadership at all levels for many, many years who others in the Stake joking referred to as the Kennedys. They were primarily an East HS cabal.

  18. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    The perpetual education fund is all but dead. It was a loan program and the loans did not get repaid. Maybe BYU tuition breaks should be a loan program.
    I don't know if that is true (that it is all but dead). We have some members of our ward who teach at LDS BC and they are still getting people from all around the world on the PEF. I may be wrong, but my understanding is that it is now funded in such a way that it no longer needed donations to keep it going. I have heard people critical of it because the loans they give are solely off of the interest of the fund and not the full fund itself. Dunno - would like to learn more about that and if it is true.

    I really do expect to see massive ramping up of the BYU Pathways program though to counterbalance what BYU is and provide access to a decent education to the global church.

    I had to be on BYU's campus at the end of the year last year, and just looking at the massive infrastructure investments etc, it is hard to believe that the church will ever fully abandon that model. I do wish they would do as scratch suggested and let the wealthy parents pay a full tuition, and then let other students in who qualify but may not be able to pay.

    As for BYU being a place to find your spouse, I've had two nieces and one nephew go there and all three have struck out at finding love at BYU, but found it elsewhere. I think they should ask for their money back.

  19. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I don't know if that is true (that it is all but dead). We have some members of our ward who teach at LDS BC and they are still getting people from all around the world on the PEF. I may be wrong, but my understanding is that it is now funded in such a way that it no longer needed donations to keep it going. I have heard people critical of it because the loans they give are solely off of the interest of the fund and not the full fund itself. Dunno - would like to learn more about that and if it is true.
    President Hinckley stated that the loans were from the interest earned by the PEF endowment not the endowment itself, so it should never run out of money. That should be the greatest legacy of Hinckley if it is used correctly.

  20. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I don't know if that is true (that it is all but dead). We have some members of our ward who teach at LDS BC and they are still getting people from all around the world on the PEF. I may be wrong, but my understanding is that it is now funded in such a way that it no longer needed donations to keep it going. I have heard people critical of it because the loans they give are solely off of the interest of the fund and not the full fund itself. Dunno - would like to learn more about that and if it is true.

    I really do expect to see massive ramping up of the BYU Pathways program though to counterbalance what BYU is and provide access to a decent education to the global church.

    I had to be on BYU's campus at the end of the year last year, and just looking at the massive infrastructure investments etc, it is hard to believe that the church will ever fully abandon that model. I do wish they would do as scratch suggested and let the wealthy parents pay a full tuition, and then let other students in who qualify but may not be able to pay.

    As for BYU being a place to find your spouse, I've had two nieces and one nephew go there and all three have struck out at finding love at BYU, but found it elsewhere. I think they should ask for their money back.
    The real solution would be for the church to sell BYU to private investors and let the marketplace control it. You would still have all of the supposed benefits that are being discussed in this thread, because the market would dictate that a huge private school in Provo, Utah (especially with BYU's history) would have cater to LDS students. You would still have essentially the same school, but the tuition would reflect the realities of the marketplace and you would also be able to disassociate from all of the negatives that get tied to the church (the church is fostering an elitist upper class, the church is subsidizing an education for a very small subset of largely American kids, the weird BYU-specific rules reflect the church's views in general, etc.).

  21. #51
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Why do you hire them? You are less petty than I am.

    Why do you say "mostly those growing up outside Utah"? I assume BYU still has a pretty high percentage of Utahns?
    Gotta hire the best candidates regardless of sports biases! Insufferable people are a small minority at BYU, IMO (the biggest chunk of them are among the diehard sports fans). Being from Utah or SoCal is a negative factor for BYU applicants, I’m told.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  22. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    The real solution would be for the church to sell BYU to private investors and let the marketplace control it. You would still have all of the supposed benefits that are being discussed in this thread, because the market would dictate that a huge private school in Provo, Utah (especially with BYU's history) would have cater to LDS students. You would still have essentially the same school, but the tuition would reflect the realities of the marketplace and you would also be able to disassociate from all of the negatives that get tied to the church (the church is fostering an elitist upper class, the church is subsidizing an education for a very small subset of largely American kids, the weird BYU-specific rules reflect the church's views in general, etc.).
    I always figured SVU would eventually become a BYU east campus. You are suggesting the opposite - BYU becomes SVU west. I'm on board if anyone's taking a vote!

  23. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Gotta hire the best candidates regardless of sports biases! Insufferable people are a small minority at BYU, IMO (the biggest chunk of them are among the diehard sports fans). Being from Utah or SoCal is a negative factor for BYU applicants, I’m told.
    Yes, but sports biases should be factored in when determining "best candidates", right?

    I'm sure being from Utah is a negative factor in admissions, but I'm also reasonably certain that the Utah percentage at BYU is still very high.

  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    They were primarily an East HS cabal.
    Ugh, the worst kind of cabal.

  25. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    They were primarily an East HS cabal.
    That sounds more like natural selection as opposed to some sort of cabal.

  26. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Sullyute View Post
    President Hinckley stated that the loans were from the interest earned by the PEF endowment not the endowment itself, so it should never run out of money. That should be the greatest legacy of Hinckley if it is used correctly.
    My comment was poorly structured (big surprise). My wondering if something was true wasn't about the PEF being run off the interest, but rather if it was all but dead.

    Regarding being run solely off of the interest of the fund - I could look for it, but the church basically put out something that said as much and so I was under the impression that even if 0% of the loans ever got paid back it could go into perpetuity. I agree, that is a tremendous legacy. I only noted that people were critical that not all of PEF funds were being used, but these critics are also the same people who are critical of the Church's charitable work in general.

  27. #57
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Yes, but sports biases should be factored in when determining "best candidates", right?
    At work I’m surrounded by fans of USC, UCLA, Notre Dame, the Western Bay Area MLB franchise, and the Yankees. I can tolerate anything.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  28. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    My comment was poorly structured (big surprise)....
    I quoted you but was really responding to UTEopia. I interpreted his comment as the PEF was nearly dead because it was out of money as borrowers did’t pay back the loans, not that the PEF was being mothballed for lack of use. Either way I think you and I are of the same opinion on the PEF.

    UTEopia, can you add some color to your comment about the PEF?

  29. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Sullyute View Post
    I quoted you but was really responding to UTEopia. I interpreted his comment as the PEF was nearly dead because it was out of money as borrowers did’t pay back the loans, not that the PEF was being mothballed for lack of use. Either way I think you and I are of the same opinion on the PEF.

    UTEopia, can you add some color to your comment about the PEF?
    I may have failed to articulate what I was told. I was told that the PEF was not being pushed because it was not functioning the way it was envisioned because recipients were unable to repay their loans. I thought the PEF was a great idea when it was rolled out. However, the more I thought about it, the less I liked it. Why provide huge subsidies for the educations of the brightest and require those who are not otherwise able to have their educations paid for resort to obtaining a loan. Education at a Church school is the only Church program that does not provide an avenue for access for all worthy members. There may have been a time when it was needed in order to bring kids together for marrying, etc., but it seems to me that the Church would be better served by keeping those people in their local areas, attending local schools and local institutes instead of waiting for the benefits from the BYU educated to trickle down to the unwashed masses.

  30. #60
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    There may have been a time when it was needed in order to bring kids together for marrying, etc., but it seems to me that the Church would be better served by keeping those people in their local areas, attending local schools and local institutes instead of waiting for the benefits from the BYU educated to trickle down to the unwashed masses.
    When we first moved to L.A. in 1982 it was every pretty much every active LDS teenager's dream to go to BYU, if the kid was interested in college. It was still a rite of passage then, for most. We saw that change with the growth of the church. If the church keeps growing BYU's role has to change naturally.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

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