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Thread: The Russell Nelson Era: Changes in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

  1. #91
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    I'm with you as well - my international experience was terrific for me
    it was always disheartening when the attractive girl asked where you went on your mission and you mumbled some obscure state in the Midwest. She was already looking elsewhere for the missionaries who spoke French or Portuguese.

    What's it like to have pride in where you served?

    And deep, deep down I always thought maybe I wasn't smart enough to learn a foreign language or God didn't trust me to leave the country.

    I may or may not have some unresolved issues about this.
    Last edited by Scorcho; 03-12-2019 at 04:32 PM.

  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    it was always disheartening when the attractive girl asked where you went on your mission and you mumbled some obscure state in the Midwest. She was already looking elsewhere for the missionaries who spoke French or Portuguese.

    What's it like to have pride in where you served?

    And deep, deep down I always thought maybe I wasn't smart enough to learn a foreign language or God didn't trust me to leave the country.

    I may or may not have some unresolved issues about this.
    Missionaries called to English speaking missions were those who had already proved their valiance in the pre-mortal or pre-mission life. They had no more need for the refiner's fire.

    I may or may have not have already resolved personal issue about this.
    People who wear glasses/contacts are not allowed to celbrqte the rear 2020. Go eat some carrots or get LASIK.

  3. #93
    When I was a teenager, my ward would occasionally have sacrament meetings where parents (usually moms) of all the missionaries out from our ward would basically give updates and share some of their missionary's experiences. It inevitably turned into a brag-fest about everything the missionaries were doing. I don't know if the moms were trying to one-up each other, but it sure felt like that.

    In order to properly decide who was winning, my friends and I (mostly) jokingly came up with with a test for weighing various accomplishments. You had to factor in how long the missionary had been out, if and when they became a senior companion, trainer, district leader, zone leader, or AP. Then you had to factor that by where they were serving, with the foreign speaking third-world countries getting the most credit, followed by foreign-speaking-first-world countries, foreign-speaking in America, foreign English speaking, and English-speaking in America, all in that order (although I can't quite remember the order for foreign English speaking and U.S. non-English). While we were joking around, it certainly showed how teenage boys preparing for missions viewed the different mission calls.

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    it was always disheartening when the attractive girl asked where you went on your mission and you mumbled some obscure state in the Midwest. She was already looking elsewhere for the missionaries who spoke French or Portuguese.
    If it helps, my Spanish was not enough to make me attractive to the ladies.

    I did win the mission lottery though. I spent 1 year climbing around the Andes mountains and 1 year in Lima. I ate like a king (no other missions in the world compare to Latin America for quality and quantity of food), and each preparation day was like a new adventure out of National Geographic. I arrived in Peru shortly after the Shining Path terrorists were defeated. There was a solid decade of no North American tourism, so I was a total novelty/celebrity. It was a tremendous spiritual experience, but it was also an amazing cultural experience.

    As a nerd, there were 0 women in my classes at the U. As a senior, I finally decided to take something else just to see if I could meet girls. I signed up for French I, and of the 18 students, I was the only guy. It was a great class. In language classes, they pair you up all the time for practice. I got to know all the ladies...but I was still too shy to ask any of them out . The teacher was a grad student in French who had served a mission in Tahiti. I'm pretty sure she wanted me to ask her out after the semester ended, but, again, too shy back then.

  5. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    If it helps, my Spanish was not enough to make me attractive to the ladies.

    I did win the mission lottery though. I spent 1 year climbing around the Andes mountains and 1 year in Lima. I ate like a king (no other missions in the world compare to Latin America for quality and quantity of food), and each preparation day was like a new adventure out of National Geographic. I arrived in Peru shortly after the Shining Path terrorists were defeated. There was a solid decade of no North American tourism, so I was a total novelty/celebrity. It was a tremendous spiritual experience, but it was also an amazing cultural experience.

    As a nerd, there were 0 women in my classes at the U. As a senior, I finally decided to take something else just to see if I could meet girls. I signed up for French I, and of the 18 students, I was the only guy. It was a great class. In language classes, they pair you up all the time for practice. I got to know all the ladies...but I was still too shy to ask any of them out . The teacher was a grad student in French who had served a mission in Tahiti. I'm pretty sure she wanted me to ask her out after the semester ended, but, again, too shy back then.
    Was this 1985? I hiked the Inca trail right after the Sendero Luminoso (?) blew up the train to Macho Piccu. No Americans, but lots of Germans.

  6. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Was this 1985? I hiked the Inca trail right after the Sendero Luminoso (?) blew up the train to Macho Piccu. No Americans, but lots of Germans.
    I should have written that there was a solid decade of no north american missionaries in Peru. I arrived in 1996, which is a year after the church started sending north americans there again. There were 120 missionaries in my mission, and only 7 were north american.

    When I say I was a novelty/celebrity, I was referring mostly to my status within the LDS Church.

    Callao is not a tourist city at all. It is a port city. The people there had not seen north american sailors for a long time. They had dealt with Russian sailors, though, and many people in Callao assumed I was Russian. I got called "Ruso" on a routine basis.

    By the time I arrived in Cusco in 1997, the people in Inca country were used to American tourists but still not used to North American missionaries. In every ward/branch I served in, I was the first American there in over a decade.

    Anyway, that's pretty amazing that you were there in 1985. I thought our tourism was basically nonexistent at that time.

    When I was serving in Ollantaytambo, my companion and I would try to guess the country of origin of tourists before talking with them. It was a fun game.

  7. #97
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Was this 1985? I hiked the Inca trail right after the Sendero Luminoso (?) blew up the train to Macho Piccu. No Americans, but lots of Germans.
    These assassinations probably had a lot to do with reductions in North American missionary activity in the country:

    Two Mormon missionaries killed in Peru

    This was 1990. I remember feeling shocked and very sad (not to mention angry). These victims were Peruvians, and it was the Shining Path that murdered them, but the year before two North Americans were murdered in Bolivia by another radical leftist group. The two elders were opening the door to their apartment when the killers shot them -- surely after lying in wait for them.

    Imagine being the families of those four missionaries.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 03-12-2019 at 07:56 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #98
    With GC coming in less than two weeks, the rumor mill of impending changes is at an all-time high. I think a lot of these rumors are actually just people's wish lists, but I'm curious what people have been hearing is coming down the pipeline.

    FWIW - We had a GA at our last Stake Conference and in the adult meeting he mentioned that he expected the new youth program that encompasses everything for both YM/YW 8 and up would be announced in March of this year - since the month is almost over - will that be the big reveal in GC? He was also in charge of the church handbooks and told us to throw away our paper copies they had been so drastically revamped.

  9. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    With GC coming in less than two weeks, the rumor mill of impending changes is at an all-time high. I think a lot of these rumors are actually just people's wish lists, but I'm curious what people have been hearing is coming down the pipeline.
    Every rumor I've heard:

    - Removal of stake auxillaries
    - Shorter missions, missions only within home nation
    - Coffee/tea will be removed from Word of Wisdom
    - Garments will be temple clothes only

    Hmmm, I guess I haven't heard that many. I'm not very connected to rumor mills, though. This board is my primary source.

    Of the rumors I listed, I think I'm only hoping for the first one. The others are all meh.

  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    FWIW - We had a GA at our last Stake Conference and in the adult meeting he mentioned that he expected the new youth program that encompasses everything for both YM/YW 8 and up would be announced in March of this year - since the month is almost over - will that be the big reveal in GC? He was also in charge of the church handbooks and told us to throw away our paper copies they had been so drastically revamped.
    If they announce it in March, I would think we'd just transition immediately instead of waiting until January. We're in limbo now, not knowing really what to plan.

  11. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Every rumor I've heard:

    - Removal of stake auxillaries
    - Shorter missions, missions only within home nation
    - Coffee/tea will be removed from Word of Wisdom
    - Garments will be temple clothes only

    Hmmm, I guess I haven't heard that many. I'm not very connected to rumor mills, though. This board is my primary source.

    Of the rumors I listed, I think I'm only hoping for the first one. The others are all meh.
    Man, I'd be thrilled about this one for both me and my wife. I work outside a bunch during the summer and even though I opt out of garments more and more these days, I'd love to do without the guilt hesitation. Also, I'd take my wife's pre-endowment underwear choices over her post-endowment underwear choices anytime.

    Having said that, I give the possibility of that happening about 2%.

  12. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    If they announce it in March, I would think we'd just transition immediately instead of waiting until January. We're in limbo now, not knowing really what to plan.
    I think the big challenge would be learning what the new program is and implementing it. Particularly if what the YM and YW do is parallel, and if it encompasses both Primary and the Youth Organizations - and has a scouting component to it... that might take some time to learn and do. For example when they dropped HT/VT in April they gave until August to fully implement.


    However, they have sent around a letter regarding scouting and basically June is the cut off and when they've given scouts permission to go do their own thing, but there is to be no recruiting of leaders, and no use of the building for scout purposes after the end of the year.

  13. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I think the big challenge would be learning what the new program is and implementing it. Particularly if what the YM and YW do is parallel, and if it encompasses both Primary and the Youth Organizations - and has a scouting component to it... that might take some time to learn and do. For example when they dropped HT/VT in April they gave until August to fully implement.


    However, they have sent around a letter regarding scouting and basically June is the cut off and when they've given scouts permission to go do their own thing, but there is to be no recruiting of leaders, and no use of the building for scout purposes after the end of the year.
    Well, I hope your rumor about announcing something is correct. It would be nice to have some direction. Right now, we are trying to do the following in YM:

    Week 1: combine with YW
    Week 2: service project
    Week 3: game night
    Week 4: skills night

    It's a pretty good system, but it's very hard to come up with service projects in the winter.

    Some leaders want more Saturday excursions, some don't want any. My son is in YM, so I like the idea of cool Saturday excursions (biking, hiking). But I can understand that other leaders want to keep their saturdays free.

  14. #104
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    With GC coming in less than two weeks, the rumor mill of impending changes is at an all-time high. I think a lot of these rumors are actually just people's wish lists, but I'm curious what people have been hearing is coming down the pipeline.

    FWIW - We had a GA at our last Stake Conference and in the adult meeting he mentioned that he expected the new youth program that encompasses everything for both YM/YW 8 and up would be announced in March of this year - since the month is almost over - will that be the big reveal in GC? He was also in charge of the church handbooks and told us to throw away our paper copies they had been so drastically revamped.
    I heard that a huge new building is going up across the street from Temple Square. It will house all the rumors that have emerged in the last 12 months.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Well, I hope your rumor about announcing something is correct. It would be nice to have some direction. Right now, we are trying to do the following in YM:

    Week 1: combine with YW
    Week 2: service project
    Week 3: game night
    Week 4: skills night

    It's a pretty good system, but it's very hard to come up with service projects in the winter.

    Some leaders want more Saturday excursions, some don't want any. My son is in YM, so I like the idea of cool Saturday excursions (biking, hiking). But I can understand that other leaders want to keep their saturdays free.
    Tangental, but when it comes to non-weekday-night activities, the leaders who like doing these are the ones who seem to make the real difference. This doesn't mean that you have to do this regularly, but we have a leader who will frequently just email the YM and say, "Hey, next Saturday me and a couple leaders want to go mountain biking with you guys... if you can make it great, but no worries if you can't." Or "Who wants to go to the temple at 5am this next Wednesday with me!" Surprisingly kids show up and the kids LOVE this guy. He is a nice guy, but not over the top personality. During the activities he doesn't really do anything extraordinary - but the kids know he cares about them and that he LIKES being with them, versus being simply assigned. It has made all the difference.

  16. #106
    Rocker,
    A friend who works in the big building commented to me recently and it relates to your point about effective leaders. He never said that the weeknight for YM/YW would change from weekly but he did say that the church is allowing and even encouraging flexibility in a number of areas. There are stakes/wards who are not meeting weekly. They'll meet one week and then the leaders will do "ministering" visits the following week to quorum members. They may be visits in the home or other activites focused on one or a couple of YM/YW. This is also encouraging more activities like you mention - leaders feeling like they have the time to just go and be with YM/YW at other times of the week.

    I emphasize we weren't talking new policy/practice. He was just telling me how some are dealing with the current schedule and affirmed that church leadership was fine and even encouraging of greater flexibility.

  17. #107
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    Rocker,
    A friend who works in the big building commented to me recently and it relates to your point about effective leaders. He never said that the weeknight for YM/YW would change from weekly but he did say that the church is allowing and even encouraging flexibility in a number of areas. There are stakes/wards who are not meeting weekly. They'll meet one week and then the leaders will do "ministering" visits the following week to quorum members. They may be visits in the home or other activites focused on one or a couple of YM/YW. This is also encouraging more activities like you mention - leaders feeling like they have the time to just go and be with YM/YW at other times of the week.

    I emphasize we weren't talking new policy/practice. He was just telling me how some are dealing with the current schedule and affirmed that church leadership was fine and even encouraging of greater flexibility.
    In our ward we've been assigned areas to serve and minister to -- everyone in the area, members or not. I basically have my street. The assignment is both ambiguous and exciting.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  18. #108
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    Man, I'd be thrilled about this one for both me and my wife. I work outside a bunch during the summer and even though I opt out of garments more and more these days, I'd love to do without the guilt hesitation. Also, I'd take my wife's pre-endowment underwear choices over her post-endowment underwear choices anytime.

    Having said that, I give the possibility of that happening about 2%.
    how have you not been killed or maimed by a possessed rake or out of control leaf blower

    My last underwear purchase I mistakenly bought extra short garments. Don't do it, you might be able to get away with wearing John Stockton like shorts but they ride up like they think they're internal organs.

  19. #109
    I know they have been testing some dri-fit garments.

  20. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I know they have been testing some dri-fit garments.
    New styles online as we speak.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  21. #111
    My go-to source for conference rumors is @TheStakeClerk. He (mostly) nailed it with the 2 hour church.

    He is hearing that we are going to see a sharp uptick in the number of temples.

  22. #112
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    He is hearing that we are going to see a sharp uptick in the number of temples.
    FWIW, we have a current GA in our ward who says the same thing.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  23. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    FWIW, we have a current GA in our ward who says the same thing.

    According to some in my book group, the coffee/tea WOW rumor has legs, because the ban is inhibiting missionary work in Asia. In their work, they interface with higher-ups in the Church, so they might be on to something.

  24. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    According to some in my book group, the coffee/tea WOW rumor has legs, because the ban is inhibiting missionary work in Asia. In their work, they interface with higher-ups in the Church, so they might be on to something.
    I could easily see them saying that the word of wisdom prohibitions are not barriers to baptism or full membership in good standing for converts. That would actually track the history of the WOW, where it was initially just general advice that was later turned to a commandment after the church's membership had had the opportunity to acclimate to it. In other words, it would essentially be a micro, individual implementation of that historical macro principle.

  25. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    I could easily see them saying that the word of wisdom prohibitions are not barriers to baptism or full membership in good standing for converts. That would actually track the history of the WOW, where it was initially just general advice that was later turned to a commandment after the church's membership had had the opportunity to acclimate to it. In other words, it would essentially be a micro, individual implementation of that historical macro principle.
    You could be baptized, you can go to temple, but you still couldn't go to BYU.

  26. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    You could be baptized, you can go to temple, but you still couldn't go to BYU.
    So it would have multiple blessings for those individuals.

  27. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    So it would have multiple blessings for those individuals.
    But it will hurt the Asian BYU sports TV market

  28. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    You could be baptized, you can go to temple, but you still couldn't go to BYU.
    Just like a beard AND independent thought!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  29. #119
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  30. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    From the inimitable Jana Reiss:
    Should I know this name?

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