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Thread: March Madness thread

  1. #121
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    This is not new. Ones and drones are toxic and wreck programs for a lot of reasons. They have ruined the two other programs I follow, Georgetown and UW, who are now on a long road back with just low top 100s and three stars.

    I actually respect the few coaches like the real Coach K, Roy Williams, and Calipari (are there any others?) who can effectively manage a one and done program. It’s not easy.
    others of note: Bill Self, Jim Calhoun, arguably Sean Miller

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    others of note: Bill Self, Jim Calhoun, arguably Sean Miller
    It's not like the other coaches are avoiding 1-and-done's on principle, though. Any coach in the nation would have happily signed RJ Barrett or Zion Williamson last year.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    It's not like the other coaches are avoiding 1-and-done's on principle, though. Any coach in the nation would have happily signed RJ Barrett or Zion Williamson last year.
    I don’t agree. I think some coaches like Jay Wright and Tom Izzo have a lot of options, and they pursue a player who all-around fits a profile they have in mind, and that doesn’t include the character traits and plans of a one and done. The best coaches know their own weaknesses as well as strengths.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I don’t agree. I think some coaches like Jay Wright and Tom Izzo have a lot of options, and they pursue a player who all-around fits a profile they have in mind, and that doesn’t include the character traits and plans of a one and done. The best coaches know their own weaknesses as well as strengths.
    Tom Izzo has had three one and dones (Jaren Jackson, Deyonte Davis, and Zach Randolph). He's recruited others who were potential one and dones at the time of recruitment, as has Jay Wright. If the NBA rules don't change, both will have one and dones again. Even Mark Few had a one and done with Collins.

    Everyone will take a great player, even if it's a one and one player. The difference with Duke and Kentucky is that they are almost entirely built out of one and done players now.

    You are wrong to assign certain character traits to one and done players. They come in all shapes and sizes just like other players.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Tom Izzo has had three one and dones (Jaren Jackson, Deyonte Davis, and Zach Randolph). He's recruited others who were potential one and dones at the time of recruitment, as has Jay Wright. If the NBA rules don't change, both will have one and dones again. Even Mark Few had a one and done with Collins.

    Everyone will take a great player, even if it's a one and one player. The difference with Duke and Kentucky is that they are almost entirely built out of one and done players now.

    You are wrong to assign certain character traits to one and done players. They come in all shapes and sizes just like other players.
    Tom Izzo has had three in all these years; you don’t say. With respect to ones and drones being all different, tell that to Ben Howland and Steve Alford. Ones and drones cannot help but be similar with respect to self-subordination and buy-in to the program and the system. And the one trait they definitely all have in common is that they are continuity killers. They stay only one year!
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    And the one trait they definitely all have in common is that they are continuity killers. They stay only one year!
    We've found common ground. I agree with this. Continuity and experience are a big deal.

    Lack of continuity has been brutal for Duke. And Utah has suffered the same lack of continuity with none of the payoffs

  7. #127
    UVa vs Texas Tech. A battle of defensive teams for the first time in a while. I don't think anyone beats Virginia at their own game. Cavs seem destined for a title after two dramatic/lucky wins. But go Red Raiders. The most unlikely title shot contender since Butler.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    UVa vs Texas Tech. A battle of defensive teams for the first time in a while. I don't think anyone beats Virginia at their own game. Cavs seem destined for a title after two dramatic/lucky wins. But go Red Raiders. The most unlikely title shot contender since Butler.
    Painful to watch. Texas Tech is the old Utes. What happened to our identity, our system, our culture?
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  9. #129
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Painful to watch. Texas Tech is the old Utes. What happened to our identity, our system, our culture?
    They’re with Rick Majerus.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    They’re with Rick Majerus.
    Fools mock but they shall mourn.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  11. #131
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    March Madness thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Fools mock but they shall mourn.
    No mocking. Just reality. No other Utah coach ran the program the way Big Rick did. Are you saying the Majerus era (Texas Tech style basketball) represents our “roots?”
    Last edited by LA Ute; 04-08-2019 at 08:11 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    No mocking. Just reality. No other Utah coach ran the program the way Big Rick did. Are you saying the Majerus era (Texas Tech style basketball) represents our “roots?”
    I was making an allusion to Alex Jensen in referring to going back to the roots.

    However, you’re incorrect that Majerus’s system was sui generis. Jerry Pimm ran a motion offense with 100% man-to-man.

    I don’t know how else you reach the heights with Utah’s recruits.

    Does Krystkowiak have a system? What am I missing?

    (I noted that you didn’t like my facebook post, even though everyone else did.)
    Last edited by SeattleUte; 04-08-2019 at 11:30 AM.

  13. #133
    Some Ute fans have a greater allegiance to a former athletic director than the institution. I'm not judging. Just making an observation about how we each have our own Ute experience.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  14. #134
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seattleute View Post
    some ute fans have a greater allegiance to a former athletic director than the institution. I'm not judging. Just making an observation about how we each have our own ute experience.
    non_sequitur2.png
    Last edited by LA Ute; 04-08-2019 at 11:30 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #135
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    (I noted that you didn’t like my facebook post, even though everyone else did.)
    Because I didn't like it.

    I remember when Comrade Crimson called you Seattle Majerus Fan. One of the great moments in UF.net history.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Does Krystkowiak have a system? What am I missing?
    I wouldn't mind others chiming in here. I think Larry has tried to adapt his system to his personnel. We've had some good defensive teams and some bad. We've played man-to-man and zone. We've had some teams that pushed tempo more than others. This season was all about trying to generate outside shooting opportunities without a post presence or a solid PG.

    Seems like some coaches are known for a particular system/style (Bennett right now, for example), and others are fluid (Coach K at Duke). I personally would like to have a more concrete style than we seem to have.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Because I didn't like it.

    I remember when Comrade Crimson called you Seattle Majerus Fan. One of the great moments in UF.net history.
    So you take your guidance from an admirer of the Soviet Union. Speaks volumes.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I wouldn't mind others chiming in here. I think Larry has tried to adapt his system to his personnel. We've had some good defensive teams and some bad. We've played man-to-man and zone. We've had some teams that pushed tempo more than others. This season was all about trying to generate outside shooting opportunities without a post presence or a solid PG.

    Seems like some coaches are known for a particular system/style (Bennett right now, for example), and others are fluid (Coach K at Duke). I personally would like to have a more concrete style than we seem to have.
    The ones who are fluid, like Coach K, or have no system, like Roy William, have better players. Also, ones and dones don't like systems.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    The ones who are fluid, like Coach K, or have no system, like Roy William, have better players. Also, ones and dones don't like systems.

    And you cant really teach or learn a system in one year.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    And you cant really teach or learn a system in one year.
    This is another argument for continuity and few transfers.

  21. #141
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    So you take your guidance from an admirer of the Soviet Union. Speaks volumes.
    Suggested change to your photo here:

    Attached Images Attached Images

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  22. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Some Ute fans have a greater allegiance to a former athletic director than the institution. I'm not judging. Just making an observation about how we each have our own Ute experience.
    LOL. SeattleUte is back, baby!*

    *even if he is kinda rooting for the Y these days.

  23. #143
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    ...he is kinda rooting for the Y these days.
    We could never make this stuff up.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  24. #144
    Terrific title game. Great efforts by both schools. Hope to see utah in the one shining moment soon!

  25. #145
    The replay last night is an example of something that has bugged me for years in basketball. A defender pokes the ball out, and they go to replay. Of course the ball touches the ball-handler's fingertips last on its way out. That's just physics. I don't like that the defender's team gets the ball. I don't have a solution; I just don't like it.

  26. #146
    I loved this Final Four so much. Virginia's overall run may be the most storied ever, considering the two miracle finishes, the gritty final, and emerging from the ashes of last season. Tony Bennett is an awesome coach and human being.

    Except for major league baseball, is there another sport where a single gesture can reverberate through the ages like college basketball? The NBA is too deterministic. We know who will win the series, and there are not enough close games. De’Andre Hunter's 3-pointer from the corner meant the difference between a national championship or not, and having been brilliantly set up, he delivered. True excellence.

    (Loved the fact that Coach K had the two top recruits in the country and couldn't crack the Final Four.)
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  27. #147
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    (Loved the fact that Coach K had the two top recruits in the country and couldn't crack the Final Four.)
    For a guy who doesn't want him fired you sure do have a lot of schadenfreude over his failures. Why does a Utah fan enjoy the failures of a Utah head coach -- in our most storied program, no less?

    EDIT: Never mind. You mean this Coach K:



    I agree with you.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by LA Ute; 04-10-2019 at 11:47 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  28. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I loved this Final Four so much. Virginia's overall run may be the most storied ever, considering the two miracle finishes, the gritty final, and emerging from the ashes of last season. Tony Bennett is an awesome coach and human being.

    Except for major league baseball, is there another sport where a single gesture can reverberate through the ages like college basketball?
    It was a great tournament after the first weekend. Close games all over the place. The play to go to OT vs Purdue will never be forgotten.

    College basketball - like all sports - has its flaws, but it also has the clear strength of regularly delivering big drama.

  29. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    For a guy who doesn't want him fired you sure do have a lot of schadenfreude over his failures. Why does a Utah fan enjoy the failures of a Utah head coach -- in our most storied program, no less?
    Wrong Coach K

  30. #150
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Wrong Coach K
    Thanks. Corrected!

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

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