TMobile Tourney Time - pac 12 tournament in vegas

[LA Ute]

Can we include the conference tournament in this thread? It is part of March madness, in a way.

So how about Oregon? They have a game before they play us, so maybe they will be tired. Anything to reduce their quickness will help. On defense they probably are going to press us as much as they can to force turnovers, and try to take away our three-point shots. On offense they will drive to the hoop to exploit our inside deficiency. That was the strategy UCLA used to close the gap yesterday. If Jayce is back in time to play Thursday. that may not work so well for them.

What will we do? Zone them and try to make them beat us from outside?

[Ma'ake]

Can we include the conference tournament in this thread? It is part of March madness, in a way.

So how about Oregon? They have a game before they play us, so maybe they will be tired. Anything to reduce their quickness will help. On defense they probably are going to press us as much as they can to force turnovers, and try to take away our three-point shots. On offense they will drive to the hoop to exploit our inside deficiency. That was the strategy UCLA used to close the gap yesterday. If Jayce is back in time to play Thursday. that may not work so well for them.

What will we do? Zone them and try to make them beat us from outside?

Our first game vs UO was a low point. We were up, playing well, then we turned into a turnover machine under pressure, a colossal collapse.

I'm with you, I like that they'll be on a second game in 2 nights, I'm hopeful we'll be better prepared to deal with UO's defensive pressure, and Jayce (better be) back to provide some defense in the paint.

Hopefully Wazzu shoots well and has the Ducks running everywhere to cover everything. That would certainly help us.

[sancho]

Our first game vs UO was a low point. We were up, playing well, then we turned into a turnover machine under pressure, a colossal collapse.

If some stats analytics guy would break down man-to-man defenses vs zone defenses against Utah this season, I feel reasonably confident that a pattern would emerge. Oregon plays the best man-to-man defense in the conference and is therefore a really rough match up for us.

Still, gotta play the games!

[LA Ute]

We’ve got to end this scoring drought.

[sancho]

I think we need to push hard against this press. Tillman has drawn multiple fouls on the drive. Just keep going at them.

[LA Ute]

Hard to give Oregon credit for half of the turnovers. We’re just attempting bad passes.

[sancho]

It's the Donnie and Jayce show!

[chrisrenrut]

Feels like if we get down by more than 5 points, it may be an insurmountable lead.

[sancho]

I'm glad these refs finally realized that we were all staying up late to watch them.

[LA Ute]

Sure would be nice if some of our three point attempts would fall.

[sancho]

Sure would be nice if some of our three point attempts would fall.

I think if we get any good looks, they'll go down, but we haven't had many good looks at all. I still think our best offense against this D involves Allen and Tillman getting to the rim.

[LA Ute]

I think if we get any good looks, they'll go down, but we haven't had many good looks at all. I still think our best offense against this D involves Allen and Tillman getting to the rim.

That’s what has worked, but we are attempting the threes now.

[sancho]

That’s what has worked, but we are attempting the threes now.

We're forcing the threes, which is why we're missing them. Many of our attempts have been bad decisions or desperate shots at the end of the clock. You're right, though. The three is our identity. We need to find a way to get some open looks for Sed and/or PVD and hope they can break the ice.

[mUUser]

Sure would be nice if some of our three point attempts would fall.

I think I could've gone 2-23 on half-court heaves this season.

[DrumNFeather]

Interesting to see similarly coached teams in Utah and Oregon St., who were so hyper-focused on getting byes come out flat in their respective games. I suppose we should be rooting for Oregon vs. Colorado if we want the league to get three bids.

[sancho]

I suppose we should be rooting for Oregon vs. Colorado if we want the league to get three bids.

I'm not sure I care about how many bids the league gets. There is some small amount of money involved for us, but it's not enough to make me root for teams that beat us down. I'd rather have CU than Oregon steal a bid if someone has to.

[UBlender]

Interesting to see similarly coached teams in Utah and Oregon St., who were so hyper-focused on getting byes come out flat in their respective games. I suppose we should be rooting for Oregon vs. Colorado if we want the league to get three bids.

Do you think ASU gets in without at least winning tonight? I think the PAC 12's best chance would be CU over ASU in the title game. CU has a really nice chance to set themselves up here. From what I understand they should have just about everyone back next year so a nice run this year puts them in a position to be one of the favorites in the conference heading into next year.

The PAC 12 desperately needs a couple of teams to emerge as nationally relevant juggernauts to fill the void of UCLA and Arizona--right now UW and CU seem best positioned to do this (though they are still a far cry from the powerhouses that UCLA and Arizona have been/are supposed to be).

[DrumNFeather]

Do you think ASU gets in without at least winning tonight? I think the PAC 12's best chance would be CU over ASU in the title game. CU has a really nice chance to set themselves up here. From what I understand they should have just about everyone back next year so a nice run this year puts them in a position to be one of the favorites in the conference heading into next year.

The PAC 12 desperately needs a couple of teams to emerge as nationally relevant juggernauts to fill the void of UCLA and Arizona--right now UW and CU seem best positioned to do this (though they are still a far cry from the powerhouses that UCLA and Arizona have been/are supposed to be).

As of this morning, Joe Lunardi has ASU at the top of his list for his last four byes. A couple of teams on that list are still playing (Temple, Ohio St.) and a couple that are in the last four in/first four out are still playing as well (Florida, Alabama, Xavier). So there are certainly teams that could knock them out...but right now they seem pretty safely in.

[SoCalPat]

Do you think ASU gets in without at least winning tonight?

ASU is a lock if they win tonight, but I'm not sure a loss is that damaging. It's a Q2 loss on a neutral floor, right?

[LA Ute]

We’re watching a Utah team with no three-point shooting. It’s a wonder we’re still in the game. If some of those will start falling, we will be in this game.

[LA Ute]

It’s starting to looks like the wheels have pretty much come off. Let’s see what miracles we have in our pockets.

[LA Ute]

It’s starting to looks like the wheels have pretty much come off. Let’s see what miracles we have in our pockets.

No miracles.

[sancho]

No miracles.

Not this time. Couldn't get the stops when we needed them. Time to focus on Zion and whoever emerges as a cinderella.

[chrisrenrut]

Not this time. Couldn't get the stops when we needed them. Time to focus on Zion and whoever emerges as a cinderella.

Go USU Aggies!

[LA Ute]

I think the teams I hate losing to most are Arizona and Oregon. Probably because they beat us so often.

As Rick Majerus used to say, we need better players.

[Mormon Red Death]

I think the teams I hate losing to most are Arizona and Oregon. Probably because they beat us so often.

As Rick Majerus used to say, we need better players.

Damn.. had an all Utah parlay (weber, uvu, suu usu Utah moneyline parlay). Had to hedge with $150 on Oregon tonight

[LA Ute]

Larry’s problem is that he must find a way to eke out wins so that he can attract better, more talented players. So far he’s been pretty good at that, but not quite good enough. In crunch time, such as the conference tournament, scenarios like last night emerge: We come up against a more talented team. We can stymie them for a while with tough defense and a disciplined offense (as long as we are hitting shots from somewhere, whether it be three-point land or getting to the hoop like Allen did last night), but sooner or later our opponent’s talent tips the scale and teams like Oregon start to be able to do pretty much what they want to us.

The biggest flaw I see in Larry‘s team is that they lack basketball IQ. I think this is coaching. Going back to the Majerus days, his teams could win despite being less talented because they had at that IQ. These Utes, as much as I love them, lost composure last night. I think half the turnovers they gave up were the result of dumb passes or simple lack of attention.

So right now, recruits that we persuade to look at our program will think, “Hmmm, Solid coach who will help me develop as a player, but the Utah program is always going to be bunch of tough, gritty guys who can win a big game now and then but when it gets to conference tournament quarterfinals, the NCAA tournament, even the NIT, they’re going to get stopped by one of the more talented programs.. Do I want to go there or do I want to go someplace where the ceiling is higher?”

Unfortunately, that is what Larry‘s body of work has come to be. I hope like crazy that the talented young guys on the team can gel next year and take the program to a slightly higher, more attractive level. It’s possible. That hope is what keeps Utes fans’ hearts beating.

[Scorcho]

Larry’s problem is that he must find a way to eke out wins so that he can attract better, more talented players. So far he’s been pretty good at that, but not quite good enough. In crunch time, such as the conference tournament, scenarios like last night emerge: We come up against a more talented team. We can stymie them for a while with tough defense and a disciplined offense (as long as we are hitting shots from somewhere, whether it be three-point land or getting to the hoop like Allen did last night), but sooner or later our opponent’s talent tips the scale and teams like Oregon start to be able to do pretty much what they want to us.

The biggest flaw I see in Larry‘s team is that they lack basketball IQ. I think this is coaching. Going back to the Majerus days, his teams could win despite being less talented because they had at that IQ. These Utes, as much as I love them, lost composure last night. I think half the turnovers they gave up were the result of dumb passes or simple lack of attention.

So right now, recruits that we persuade to look at our program will think, “Hmmm, Solid coach who will help me develop as a player, but the Utah program is always going to be bunch of tough, gritty guys who can win a big game now and then but when it gets to conference tournament quarterfinals, the NCAA tournament, even the NIT, they’re going to get stopped by one of the more talented programs.. Do I want to go there or do I want to go someplace where the ceiling is higher?”

Unfortunately, that is what Larry‘s body of work has come to be. I hope like crazy that the talented young guys on the team can gel next year and take the program to a slightly higher, more attractive level. It’s possible. That hope is what keeps Utes fans’ hearts beating.

good points! I started to jot down some thoughts and quickly realized I was too depressed.

[SoCalPat]

Larry’s problem is that he must find a way to eke out wins so that he can attract better, more talented players. So far he’s been pretty good at that, but not quite good enough. In crunch time, such as the conference tournament, scenarios like last night emerge: We come up against a more talented team. We can stymie them for a while with tough defense and a disciplined offense (as long as we are hitting shots from somewhere, whether it be three-point land or getting to the hoop like Allen did last night), but sooner or later our opponent’s talent tips the scale and teams like Oregon start to be able to do pretty much what they want to us.

The biggest flaw I see in Larry‘s team is that they lack basketball IQ. I think this is coaching. Going back to the Majerus days, his teams could win despite being less talented because they had at that IQ. These Utes, as much as I love them, lost composure last night. I think half the turnovers they gave up were the result of dumb passes or simple lack of attention.

So right now, recruits that we persuade to look at our program will think, “Hmmm, Solid coach who will help me develop as a player, but the Utah program is always going to be bunch of tough, gritty guys who can win a big game now and then but when it gets to conference tournament quarterfinals, the NCAA tournament, even the NIT, they’re going to get stopped by one of the more talented programs.. Do I want to go there or do I want to go someplace where the ceiling is higher?”

Unfortunately, that is what Larry‘s body of work has come to be. I hope like crazy that the talented young guys on the team can gel next year and take the program to a slightly higher, more attractive level. It’s possible. That hope is what keeps Utes fans’ hearts beating.

I think next year is a massive indicator year for Larry and his long-term future at Utah. The league the last two years has not lived up to the heights it reached in 2016 (seven NCAA bids) and 2017 (gobs of talent and 3 teams that were top 3 seeds in the tournament, including a FF team in Oregon). No program has benefitted from this malaise more than Utah, which gets top 4 finishes and byes in Vegas and does nothing with them (it was sobering to see Duke play in the lead-up to our game last night and have the same seed in their conference tournament as Utah, and we're not even going to the NIT). This malaise is something I'm not convinced will last forever.

We're in a tough spot. We need to see noticeable improvement next year, but where are we willing to land? On the low end of the spectrum, we're a bubble team and miss out while getting a high seed in the NIT. On the high end of the spectrum, we're comfortably in, but are hardly a lock to win a game in the Dance.

Even with the upgrades to the schedule, our non-con was literally dead in the middle of D-1, per Pomeroy, ranking 174th. Our overall SOS of 68 sounds nice, but it's incredibly weak compared to other P5 leagues -- the only P5s you'll see with worse SOS are all in the Pac-12. Until proven otherwise, we cannot count on this league to raise our SOS in league play. The 300-plus dreck has to come off the schedule. I'll allow for one such game, but not four. SOS still a millstone around our necks.

I'm puzzled by our inability to defend for long stretches. Last night was a microcosm of our season. We were good in the first half, abysmal in the second half. Defense just shouldn't be so inconsistent. This year's defense was equally as bad as our defense in our 5-win season (2012 was 262nd, this year's 260th, per Pomeroy), and that team didn't have nearly the talent or the advantage of playing with leads. The parallels between this year's team and Giacoletti's last team are very concerning, and we all knew Ray had checked out well before the season was over with. What's Larry's excuse? If this is his one-year "sabbatical," there are worse things to have endured, but we can't see this extend into next year.

[DrumNFeather]

I think next year is a massive indicator year for Larry and his long-term future at Utah. The league the last two years has not lived up to the heights it reached in 2016 (seven NCAA bids) and 2017 (gobs of talent and 3 teams that were top 3 seeds in the tournament, including a FF team in Oregon). No program has benefitted from this malaise more than Utah, which gets top 4 finishes and byes in Vegas and does nothing with them (it was sobering to see Duke play in the lead-up to our game last night and have the same seed in their conference tournament as Utah, and we're not even going to the NIT).

We're in a tough spot. We need to see noticeable improvement next year, but where are we willing to land? On the low end of the spectrum, we're a bubble team and miss out while getting a high seed in the NIT. On the high end of the spectrum, we're comfortably in, but are hardly a lock to win a game in the Dance.

Even with the upgrades to the schedule, our non-con was literally dead in the middle of D-1, per Pomeroy, ranking 174th. Our overall SOS of 68 sounds nice, but it's incredibly weak compared to other P5 leagues -- the only P5s you'll see with worse SOS are all in the Pac-12. Until proven otherwise, we cannot count on this league to raise our SOS in league play. The 300-plus dreck has to come off the schedule. I'll allow for one such game, but not four. SOS still a millstone around our necks.

I'm puzzled by our inability to defend for long stretches. Last night was a microcosm of our season. We were good in the first half, abysmal in the second half. Defense just shouldn't be so inconsistent. This year's defense was equally as bad as our defense in our 5-win season (2012 was 262nd, this year's 260th, per Pomeroy), and that team didn't have nearly the talent or the advantage of playing with leads. The parallels between this year's team and Giacoletti's last team are very concerning, and we all knew Ray had checked out well before the season was over with. What's Larry's excuse? If this is his one-year "sabbatical," there are worse things to have endured, but we can't see this extend into next year.

On your scheduling point - I've been taking a deep dive into what it looks like for next year, what we did this year and there are just a lot of weird things. For example, Cal and WSU were both 250 plus NET ranking teams for most of the season. The only power 5 or 6 team that even came close to that was Wake Forest in the ACC. All of the other power 5/6 leagues capped out somewhere in the 150s. That's huge. Any Pac 12 team that hosts Cal and Wazzu is getting a Q4 win and even going on the road at those schools is pretty much the same. Cal's 3 game streak and WSU's improvement inflate their NET numbers a little bit as well, but Cal was close to 300 all year and WSU wasn't that much better. That is a HUGE anchor for this league in terms of SOS.

I'm going to do a longer post on this, but we've only got 5 or so spots to fill on our schedule for next year as it currently stands...so absolutely, we need to lose the SWAC schools. We also need to play all of our non-conference games and not cap out at 11 like we've done the last two years.