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Thread: TMobile Tourney Time - pac 12 tournament in vegas

  1. #31
    I'm glad these refs finally realized that we were all staying up late to watch them.

  2. #32
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Sure would be nice if some of our three point attempts would fall.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Sure would be nice if some of our three point attempts would fall.
    I think if we get any good looks, they'll go down, but we haven't had many good looks at all. I still think our best offense against this D involves Allen and Tillman getting to the rim.

  4. #34
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    We’re watching a Utah team with no three-point shooting. It’s a wonder we’re still in the game. If some of those will start falling, we will be in this game.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 03-15-2019 at 04:27 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  5. #35
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I think if we get any good looks, they'll go down, but we haven't had many good looks at all. I still think our best offense against this D involves Allen and Tillman getting to the rim.
    That’s what has worked, but we are attempting the threes now.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    That’s what has worked, but we are attempting the threes now.
    We're forcing the threes, which is why we're missing them. Many of our attempts have been bad decisions or desperate shots at the end of the clock. You're right, though. The three is our identity. We need to find a way to get some open looks for Sed and/or PVD and hope they can break the ice.

  7. #37
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    It’s starting to looks like the wheels have pretty much come off. Let’s see what miracles we have in our pockets.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #38
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    It’s starting to looks like the wheels have pretty much come off. Let’s see what miracles we have in our pockets.
    No miracles.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    No miracles.
    Not this time. Couldn't get the stops when we needed them. Time to focus on Zion and whoever emerges as a cinderella.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Not this time. Couldn't get the stops when we needed them. Time to focus on Zion and whoever emerges as a cinderella.
    Go USU Aggies!
    I saw a door that said exit only. So I entered through it and went up to the guy working there and said "I have good news. You have severely underestimated that door over there. By like a hundred percent." Demetri Marti

  11. #41
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I think the teams I hate losing to most are Arizona and Oregon. Probably because they beat us so often.

    As Rick Majerus used to say, we need better players.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I think the teams I hate losing to most are Arizona and Oregon. Probably because they beat us so often.

    As Rick Majerus used to say, we need better players.
    Damn.. had an all Utah parlay (weber, uvu, suu usu Utah moneyline parlay). Had to hedge with $150 on Oregon tonight
    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

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  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Sure would be nice if some of our three point attempts would fall.

    I think I could've gone 2-23 on half-court heaves this season.
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  14. #44
    Interesting to see similarly coached teams in Utah and Oregon St., who were so hyper-focused on getting byes come out flat in their respective games. I suppose we should be rooting for Oregon vs. Colorado if we want the league to get three bids.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  15. #45
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    TMobile Tourney Time - pac 12 tournament in vegas

    Larry’s problem is that he must find a way to eke out wins so that he can attract better, more talented players. So far he’s been pretty good at that, but not quite good enough. In crunch time, such as the conference tournament, scenarios like last night emerge: We come up against a more talented team. We can stymie them for a while with tough defense and a disciplined offense (as long as we are hitting shots from somewhere, whether it be three-point land or getting to the hoop like Allen did last night), but sooner or later our opponent’s talent tips the scale and teams like Oregon start to be able to do pretty much what they want to us.

    The biggest flaw I see in Larry‘s team is that they lack basketball IQ. I think this is coaching. Going back to the Majerus days, his teams could win despite being less talented because they had at that IQ. These Utes, as much as I love them, lost composure last night. I think half the turnovers they gave up were the result of dumb passes or simple lack of attention.

    So right now, recruits that we persuade to look at our program will think, “Hmmm, Solid coach who will help me develop as a player, but the Utah program is always going to be bunch of tough, gritty guys who can win a big game now and then but when it gets to conference tournament quarterfinals, the NCAA tournament, even the NIT, they’re going to get stopped by one of the more talented programs.. Do I want to go there or do I want to go someplace where the ceiling is higher?”

    Unfortunately, that is what Larry‘s body of work has come to be. I hope like crazy that the talented young guys on the team can gel next year and take the program to a slightly higher, more attractive level. It’s possible. That hope is what keeps Utes fans’ hearts beating.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  16. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    I suppose we should be rooting for Oregon vs. Colorado if we want the league to get three bids.
    I'm not sure I care about how many bids the league gets. There is some small amount of money involved for us, but it's not enough to make me root for teams that beat us down. I'd rather have CU than Oregon steal a bid if someone has to.

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Larry’s problem is that he must find a way to eke out wins so that he can attract better, more talented players. So far he’s been pretty good at that, but not quite good enough. In crunch time, such as the conference tournament, scenarios like last night emerge: We come up against a more talented team. We can stymie them for a while with tough defense and a disciplined offense (as long as we are hitting shots from somewhere, whether it be three-point land or getting to the hoop like Allen did last night), but sooner or later our opponent’s talent tips the scale and teams like Oregon start to be able to do pretty much what they want to us.

    The biggest flaw I see in Larry‘s team is that they lack basketball IQ. I think this is coaching. Going back to the Majerus days, his teams could win despite being less talented because they had at that IQ. These Utes, as much as I love them, lost composure last night. I think half the turnovers they gave up were the result of dumb passes or simple lack of attention.

    So right now, recruits that we persuade to look at our program will think, “Hmmm, Solid coach who will help me develop as a player, but the Utah program is always going to be bunch of tough, gritty guys who can win a big game now and then but when it gets to conference tournament quarterfinals, the NCAA tournament, even the NIT, they’re going to get stopped by one of the more talented programs.. Do I want to go there or do I want to go someplace where the ceiling is higher?”

    Unfortunately, that is what Larry‘s body of work has come to be. I hope like crazy that the talented young guys on the team can gel next year and take the program to a slightly higher, more attractive level. It’s possible. That hope is what keeps Utes fans’ hearts beating.
    good points! I started to jot down some thoughts and quickly realized I was too depressed.

  18. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    Interesting to see similarly coached teams in Utah and Oregon St., who were so hyper-focused on getting byes come out flat in their respective games. I suppose we should be rooting for Oregon vs. Colorado if we want the league to get three bids.
    Do you think ASU gets in without at least winning tonight? I think the PAC 12's best chance would be CU over ASU in the title game. CU has a really nice chance to set themselves up here. From what I understand they should have just about everyone back next year so a nice run this year puts them in a position to be one of the favorites in the conference heading into next year.

    The PAC 12 desperately needs a couple of teams to emerge as nationally relevant juggernauts to fill the void of UCLA and Arizona--right now UW and CU seem best positioned to do this (though they are still a far cry from the powerhouses that UCLA and Arizona have been/are supposed to be).

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Larry’s problem is that he must find a way to eke out wins so that he can attract better, more talented players. So far he’s been pretty good at that, but not quite good enough. In crunch time, such as the conference tournament, scenarios like last night emerge: We come up against a more talented team. We can stymie them for a while with tough defense and a disciplined offense (as long as we are hitting shots from somewhere, whether it be three-point land or getting to the hoop like Allen did last night), but sooner or later our opponent’s talent tips the scale and teams like Oregon start to be able to do pretty much what they want to us.

    The biggest flaw I see in Larry‘s team is that they lack basketball IQ. I think this is coaching. Going back to the Majerus days, his teams could win despite being less talented because they had at that IQ. These Utes, as much as I love them, lost composure last night. I think half the turnovers they gave up were the result of dumb passes or simple lack of attention.

    So right now, recruits that we persuade to look at our program will think, “Hmmm, Solid coach who will help me develop as a player, but the Utah program is always going to be bunch of tough, gritty guys who can win a big game now and then but when it gets to conference tournament quarterfinals, the NCAA tournament, even the NIT, they’re going to get stopped by one of the more talented programs.. Do I want to go there or do I want to go someplace where the ceiling is higher?”

    Unfortunately, that is what Larry‘s body of work has come to be. I hope like crazy that the talented young guys on the team can gel next year and take the program to a slightly higher, more attractive level. It’s possible. That hope is what keeps Utes fans’ hearts beating.
    I think next year is a massive indicator year for Larry and his long-term future at Utah. The league the last two years has not lived up to the heights it reached in 2016 (seven NCAA bids) and 2017 (gobs of talent and 3 teams that were top 3 seeds in the tournament, including a FF team in Oregon). No program has benefitted from this malaise more than Utah, which gets top 4 finishes and byes in Vegas and does nothing with them (it was sobering to see Duke play in the lead-up to our game last night and have the same seed in their conference tournament as Utah, and we're not even going to the NIT). This malaise is something I'm not convinced will last forever.

    We're in a tough spot. We need to see noticeable improvement next year, but where are we willing to land? On the low end of the spectrum, we're a bubble team and miss out while getting a high seed in the NIT. On the high end of the spectrum, we're comfortably in, but are hardly a lock to win a game in the Dance.

    Even with the upgrades to the schedule, our non-con was literally dead in the middle of D-1, per Pomeroy, ranking 174th. Our overall SOS of 68 sounds nice, but it's incredibly weak compared to other P5 leagues -- the only P5s you'll see with worse SOS are all in the Pac-12. Until proven otherwise, we cannot count on this league to raise our SOS in league play. The 300-plus dreck has to come off the schedule. I'll allow for one such game, but not four. SOS still a millstone around our necks.

    I'm puzzled by our inability to defend for long stretches. Last night was a microcosm of our season. We were good in the first half, abysmal in the second half. Defense just shouldn't be so inconsistent. This year's defense was equally as bad as our defense in our 5-win season (2012 was 262nd, this year's 260th, per Pomeroy), and that team didn't have nearly the talent or the advantage of playing with leads. The parallels between this year's team and Giacoletti's last team are very concerning, and we all knew Ray had checked out well before the season was over with. What's Larry's excuse? If this is his one-year "sabbatical," there are worse things to have endured, but we can't see this extend into next year.
    Last edited by SoCalPat; 03-15-2019 at 09:09 AM.

  20. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by UBlender View Post
    Do you think ASU gets in without at least winning tonight? I think the PAC 12's best chance would be CU over ASU in the title game. CU has a really nice chance to set themselves up here. From what I understand they should have just about everyone back next year so a nice run this year puts them in a position to be one of the favorites in the conference heading into next year.

    The PAC 12 desperately needs a couple of teams to emerge as nationally relevant juggernauts to fill the void of UCLA and Arizona--right now UW and CU seem best positioned to do this (though they are still a far cry from the powerhouses that UCLA and Arizona have been/are supposed to be).
    As of this morning, Joe Lunardi has ASU at the top of his list for his last four byes. A couple of teams on that list are still playing (Temple, Ohio St.) and a couple that are in the last four in/first four out are still playing as well (Florida, Alabama, Xavier). So there are certainly teams that could knock them out...but right now they seem pretty safely in.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by UBlender View Post
    Do you think ASU gets in without at least winning tonight?
    ASU is a lock if they win tonight, but I'm not sure a loss is that damaging. It's a Q2 loss on a neutral floor, right?

  22. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    I think next year is a massive indicator year for Larry and his long-term future at Utah. The league the last two years has not lived up to the heights it reached in 2016 (seven NCAA bids) and 2017 (gobs of talent and 3 teams that were top 3 seeds in the tournament, including a FF team in Oregon). No program has benefitted from this malaise more than Utah, which gets top 4 finishes and byes in Vegas and does nothing with them (it was sobering to see Duke play in the lead-up to our game last night and have the same seed in their conference tournament as Utah, and we're not even going to the NIT).

    We're in a tough spot. We need to see noticeable improvement next year, but where are we willing to land? On the low end of the spectrum, we're a bubble team and miss out while getting a high seed in the NIT. On the high end of the spectrum, we're comfortably in, but are hardly a lock to win a game in the Dance.

    Even with the upgrades to the schedule, our non-con was literally dead in the middle of D-1, per Pomeroy, ranking 174th. Our overall SOS of 68 sounds nice, but it's incredibly weak compared to other P5 leagues -- the only P5s you'll see with worse SOS are all in the Pac-12. Until proven otherwise, we cannot count on this league to raise our SOS in league play. The 300-plus dreck has to come off the schedule. I'll allow for one such game, but not four. SOS still a millstone around our necks.

    I'm puzzled by our inability to defend for long stretches. Last night was a microcosm of our season. We were good in the first half, abysmal in the second half. Defense just shouldn't be so inconsistent. This year's defense was equally as bad as our defense in our 5-win season (2012 was 262nd, this year's 260th, per Pomeroy), and that team didn't have nearly the talent or the advantage of playing with leads. The parallels between this year's team and Giacoletti's last team are very concerning, and we all knew Ray had checked out well before the season was over with. What's Larry's excuse? If this is his one-year "sabbatical," there are worse things to have endured, but we can't see this extend into next year.
    On your scheduling point - I've been taking a deep dive into what it looks like for next year, what we did this year and there are just a lot of weird things. For example, Cal and WSU were both 250 plus NET ranking teams for most of the season. The only power 5 or 6 team that even came close to that was Wake Forest in the ACC. All of the other power 5/6 leagues capped out somewhere in the 150s. That's huge. Any Pac 12 team that hosts Cal and Wazzu is getting a Q4 win and even going on the road at those schools is pretty much the same. Cal's 3 game streak and WSU's improvement inflate their NET numbers a little bit as well, but Cal was close to 300 all year and WSU wasn't that much better. That is a HUGE anchor for this league in terms of SOS.

    I'm going to do a longer post on this, but we've only got 5 or so spots to fill on our schedule for next year as it currently stands...so absolutely, we need to lose the SWAC schools. We also need to play all of our non-conference games and not cap out at 11 like we've done the last two years.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  23. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Even with the upgrades to the schedule, our non-con was literally dead in the middle of D-1, per Pomeroy, ranking 174th. Our overall SOS of 68 sounds nice, but it's incredibly weak compared to other P5 leagues -- the only P5s you'll see with worse SOS are all in the Pac-12. Until proven otherwise, we cannot count on this league to raise our SOS in league play. The 300-plus dreck has to come off the schedule. I'll allow for one such game, but not four. SOS still a millstone around our necks.
    The SOS issues this year are mostly a result of the awfulness of the conference. Take our OOC games, and place us in the ACC, the Big12, the Big10, or the SEC, and our SOS is quite good.

  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    The SOS issues this year are mostly a result of the awfulness of the conference. Take our OOC games, and place us in the ACC, the Big12, the Big10, or the SEC, and our SOS is quite good.
    How the NET is actually calculated is a bit of a mystery, much to my chagrin. However, I think things really turned for us schedule-wise when we lost to Hawaii and Subsequently NW. We beat Hawaii and even if we lose to Seton Hall...that's a Q1 loss on a neutral court, and I suspect places us firmly in the NET top 80 or so based on the rest of our season results.

    All that said, it seems pretty easy these days to manufacture a schedule that is going to have you at least on the bubble if you are .500 in league play. That's where Utah needs to get to...a couple of small tweaks and they will have that next year.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  25. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    All that said, it seems pretty easy these days to manufacture a schedule that is going to have you at least on the bubble if you are .500 in league play. That's where Utah needs to get to...a couple of small tweaks and they will have that next year.
    Agreed, assuming this year's Pac-12 is an aberration. No OOC schedule would have placed us on the bubble at .500 in this year's Pac-12.
    Last edited by sancho; 03-15-2019 at 11:45 AM.

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    I think next year is a massive indicator year for Larry and his long-term future at Utah. The league the last two years has not lived up to the heights it reached in 2016 (seven NCAA bids) and 2017 (gobs of talent and 3 teams that were top 3 seeds in the tournament, including a FF team in Oregon). No program has benefitted from this malaise more than Utah, which gets top 4 finishes and byes in Vegas and does nothing with them (it was sobering to see Duke play in the lead-up to our game last night and have the same seed in their conference tournament as Utah, and we're not even going to the NIT). This malaise is something I'm not convinced will last forever.

    We're in a tough spot. We need to see noticeable improvement next year, but where are we willing to land? On the low end of the spectrum, we're a bubble team and miss out while getting a high seed in the NIT. On the high end of the spectrum, we're comfortably in, but are hardly a lock to win a game in the Dance.

    Even with the upgrades to the schedule, our non-con was literally dead in the middle of D-1, per Pomeroy, ranking 174th. Our overall SOS of 68 sounds nice, but it's incredibly weak compared to other P5 leagues -- the only P5s you'll see with worse SOS are all in the Pac-12. Until proven otherwise, we cannot count on this league to raise our SOS in league play. The 300-plus dreck has to come off the schedule. I'll allow for one such game, but not four. SOS still a millstone around our necks.

    I'm puzzled by our inability to defend for long stretches. Last night was a microcosm of our season. We were good in the first half, abysmal in the second half. Defense just shouldn't be so inconsistent. This year's defense was equally as bad as our defense in our 5-win season (2012 was 262nd, this year's 260th, per Pomeroy), and that team didn't have nearly the talent or the advantage of playing with leads. The parallels between this year's team and Giacoletti's last team are very concerning, and we all knew Ray had checked out well before the season was over with. What's Larry's excuse? If this is his one-year "sabbatical," there are worse things to have endured, but we can't see this extend into next year.
    Don Maclean had a sound explanation about why the PAC-12 was down this year. I can't recall all of it, but the conference was 31st out of 32 conferences in number of players returning. There were some other points, but I just caught it in passing and meant to look it up before I forgot it. Another thing that gives me hope is that the conference does have 3 schools in the top 10 of 2019 recruiting (AZ, USC and Oregon). UW is #21 and Utah is #32.

    I'm hoping that LK can keep this core intact (Allen, Gach and Tillman seem to have bright futures). I expect Charles Jones to leave.

    https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Ba...oup=HighSchool

  27. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    How the NET is actually calculated is a bit of a mystery, much to my chagrin.
    It would be nice if it were transparent. But, at least the NET more or less matches all the experts. There's not much difference between the NET, Sagarin, KenPom, and ESPNBPI. I would rather have agreement in those things than the transparency of the super-dumb RPI.

  28. #58
    Washington outlasts the Buffs. Oregon up early on ASU.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  29. #59
    Oregon up 35 to 28 at the half.

    I know they put a ton up on us in the second half, but to hold this team to 18 in a half is pretty impressive.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  30. #60
    Ducks get it done in OT.

    UW vs. Oregon in the final. ASU now has to sweat it out. I still think they are in, but if a bunch of bids get stolen, who knows?
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

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