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Thread: Conference 2019

  1. #31
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    I think I've mentioned this before, but my MIL joined the church later in life and couldn't give up coffee. She worked in the temple for years because she had a great bishop who looked past that minor insignificant detail and gave her a recommend anyway. I witnessed how beneficial that was to her and those around her. I don't know how flexible bishops and sp's can be, but I hope they're granted a little sway when needed.
    Last edited by Scorcho; 10-08-2019 at 03:19 PM.

  2. #32
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Conference 2019

    I once did those interviews often. I really enjoyed the experience. I’d occasionally joke with people. When we got to that question about supporting opposing groups, if the interviewee was a devout Democrat and I knew the person well, I would ask, “Like belonging to the Republican party?” I would ask the opposite question with a Republican. Everyone always laughed.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I'll just add one thing on this TR question discussion - I've always considered the questions to be more an opportunity for self-reflection versus a true screening process (because if you really want you can just lie you head off - and of course people do, and others screen themselves out when they probably shouldn't). Second, why do you want to go to the temple or hold a recommend? Is it social pressure or do you want to go worship?

    Certainly you can seek correction, clarification and council, but the questions are for yourself. If you feel like you are getting into a grey area, it might be a good chance to talk to someone. If you can honestly say you feel good about your actions and have presented that to God and feel at peace then you are probably okay. The questions are more common sense than sometimes we give them credit to be. If those questions raise anxiety or anger or other negative feelings, you may not be in good standing with that particular question.

    My 2 cents...
    I agree that the questions are more for introspection into my own thoughts, beliefs and actions. Personally, I would not seek a Temple recommend if I felt like I was not prepared to go to the Temple.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I agree that the questions are more for introspection into my own thoughts, beliefs and actions. Personally, I would not seek a Temple recommend if I felt like I was not prepared to go to the Temple.
    they could probably narrow down the interview to the final question for most folks.

    I have always thought a revamp of the questions should focus less on outward commandments like tithing and the word of wisdom, and more on the two great commandments. They would be more about the person’s efforts to demonstrates their love of God and man. A simple question of “do you strive to keep the commandments and follow the council in scripture and from the prophet” could cover about half of the questions, and cover the love of God (If you love me, keep My commandments). Then others could include things like Have you used your time, talents, and a resources to help others in need? The honesty question would still apply. Do you strive to be kind and compassionate to others? Do you avoid gossip, backbiting, and speaking angrily or belittling others?
    People who wear glasses/contacts are not allowed to celbrqte the rear 2020. Go eat some carrots or get LASIK.

  5. #35
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    they could probably narrow down the interview to the final question for most folks.

    I have always thought a revamp of the questions should focus less on outward commandments like tithing and the word of wisdom, and more on the two great commandments. They would be more about the person’s efforts to demonstrates their love of God and man. A simple question of “do you strive to keep the commandments and follow the council in scripture and from the prophet” could cover about half of the questions, and cover the love of God (If you love me, keep My commandments). Then others could include things like Have you used your time, talents, and a resources to help others in need? The honesty question would still apply. Do you strive to be kind and compassionate to others? Do you avoid gossip, backbiting, and speaking angrily or belittling others?
    A good friend of ours was once a stake presidency member, and by the time the interviews got to him he would simply ask, “Have any of your answers changed since your interview with the bishopric?” Then he would proceed to have a short general chat with the person, catch up on their lives, ask how things were going, and then cheerfully move on.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #36
    I have spent some time thinking about this over the past few days and I have a couple of questions about LDS teachings and policies:

    1. What is the current teaching and policy on same-sex marriage? My sense is that the policy is now neutral when it comes to the general population. The Church doesn't promote it and it does not promote actions to prohibit it.

    2. What is the current teaching and policy on discrimination against LGBTQ in employment and housing? My sense is that the policy and teachings are against such discrimination. If that is correct, if I support allowing discrimination against LGBTQ in employment and housing can I answer that question affirmatively and still receive a recommend?

    3. What is the current teaching and policy on businesses (like the Baker in Colorado) refusing service to LGBTQ? I haven't really heard anything from Church leaders on this subject. The Beehive House allows wedding ceremonies and does not require that the bride or groom be LDS, but I would imagine they would refuse to allow a same-sex wedding. It would be interesting in not a very pleasant way to watch that play out.

    4. I know what the Church policy is on choice when it comes to fetuses created through rape and incest and situations where the health of the mother or viability of the fetus are concerned. I imagine if you chose to have an abortion outside of those areas, there would be some ramifications for you as a member of the Church. However, I don't hear much said about choice beyond that. Unlike Prop 8, Church leaders have never encouraged me to donate money to pro-life groups or to hold signs on the street opposing choice.

    If anyone has some clarity on these issues I would be interested in hearing them.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I have spent some time thinking about this over the past few days and I have a couple of questions about LDS teachings and policies:

    1. What is the current teaching and policy on same-sex marriage? My sense is that the policy is now neutral when it comes to the general population. The Church doesn't promote it and it does not promote actions to prohibit it.

    2. What is the current teaching and policy on discrimination against LGBTQ in employment and housing? My sense is that the policy and teachings are against such discrimination. If that is correct, if I support allowing discrimination against LGBTQ in employment and housing can I answer that question affirmatively and still receive a recommend?

    3. What is the current teaching and policy on businesses (like the Baker in Colorado) refusing service to LGBTQ? I haven't really heard anything from Church leaders on this subject. The Beehive House allows wedding ceremonies and does not require that the bride or groom be LDS, but I would imagine they would refuse to allow a same-sex wedding. It would be interesting in not a very pleasant way to watch that play out.

    4. I know what the Church policy is on choice when it comes to fetuses created through rape and incest and situations where the health of the mother or viability of the fetus are concerned. I imagine if you chose to have an abortion outside of those areas, there would be some ramifications for you as a member of the Church. However, I don't hear much said about choice beyond that. Unlike Prop 8, Church leaders have never encouraged me to donate money to pro-life groups or to hold signs on the street opposing choice.

    If anyone has some clarity on these issues I would be interested in hearing them.
    I don't have any clarity other than to suggest that there is really no connection between these political issues and a temple recommend interview. The interview question you are referring to is not about political opinions; it's about apostasy. If you are actively campaigning against the Church due to your opinions on these issues, you could reasonably be denied a recommend. Otherwise, no one cares. In my mind, that is the clear intent of this question.

    I do think you summarized the unofficial position of the Church accurately on all four questions.

    On #3, I also haven't heard anything directly, but Church leaders have been vocal about maintaining religious freedom. I suspect the Beehive House would refuse to allow a same-sex wedding.
    On #4, the Church's stance on abortion seems fairly clear. I don't think any other political issue has ever been like Prop 8 in terms of asking for donations or for activism. I hope it never happens like that again.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I have spent some time thinking about this over the past few days and I have a couple of questions about LDS teachings and policies:

    1. What is the current teaching and policy on same-sex marriage? My sense is that the policy is now neutral when it comes to the general population. The Church doesn't promote it and it does not promote actions to prohibit it.

    2. What is the current teaching and policy on discrimination against LGBTQ in employment and housing? My sense is that the policy and teachings are against such discrimination. If that is correct, if I support allowing discrimination against LGBTQ in employment and housing can I answer that question affirmatively and still receive a recommend?

    3. What is the current teaching and policy on businesses (like the Baker in Colorado) refusing service to LGBTQ? I haven't really heard anything from Church leaders on this subject. The Beehive House allows wedding ceremonies and does not require that the bride or groom be LDS, but I would imagine they would refuse to allow a same-sex wedding. It would be interesting in not a very pleasant way to watch that play out.

    4. I know what the Church policy is on choice when it comes to fetuses created through rape and incest and situations where the health of the mother or viability of the fetus are concerned. I imagine if you chose to have an abortion outside of those areas, there would be some ramifications for you as a member of the Church. However, I don't hear much said about choice beyond that. Unlike Prop 8, Church leaders have never encouraged me to donate money to pro-life groups or to hold signs on the street opposing choice.

    If anyone has some clarity on these issues I would be interested in hearing them.
    I think it all hinges on how you define the word 'support' in the question and I think the context of the new wording it makes it clear. "Do you support or promote any teachings, practices or doctrines contrary..." I would say that agree with or even sympathize with ≠ support and in coupling that with the word 'promote' would indicate an active opposition to church teachings. I think there has been plenty of lessons and talks that emphasize that members are free to think and believe as they chose and to work those things out through personal revelation.

    Regarding some of the questions above, particularly #1 and #2 Elder Oaks gave a talk in the Women's conference on that subject that might answer some of your questions regarding current church position. I think that talk may have also upset not a few people although I think the intent was the opposite. But I also believe Pres Oaks is has replaced Pres Packer on the 'Do Not Like' list regarding many people tied to these issues. I would then offer the chaser of Pres Nelson's following talk after that for some proper reference and re-centering. I'll also add that the LDS church helped craft and vocally supported SLC's policy on discrimination on LGBTQ a few years back, so I think they would oppose discrimination of LGBTQ people.

  9. #39
    I appreciate your thoughtful responses. My thoughts are similar to those expressed. However, the change of questions has been suggested by some to be a "raising of the bar." Personally, I think they were designed to help us examine our lives and identify areas in which we can possibly become better. I have a bunch of those, primarily involving not being unnecessarily joyous when BYU or the Dodgers lose.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I think it all hinges on how you define the word 'support' in the question and I think the context of the new wording it makes it clear. "Do you support or promote any teachings, practices or doctrines contrary..." I would say that agree with or even sympathize with ≠ support and in coupling that with the word 'promote' would indicate an active opposition to church teachings. I think there has been plenty of lessons and talks that emphasize that members are free to think and believe as they chose and to work those things out through personal revelation.

    Regarding some of the questions above, particularly #1 and #2 Elder Oaks gave a talk in the Women's conference on that subject that might answer some of your questions regarding current church position. I think that talk may have also upset not a few people although I think the intent was the opposite. But I also believe Pres Oaks is has replaced Pres Packer on the 'Do Not Like' list regarding many people tied to these issues. I would then offer the chaser of Pres Nelson's following talk after that for some proper reference and re-centering. I'll also add that the LDS church helped craft and vocally supported SLC's policy on discrimination on LGBTQ a few years back, so I think they would oppose discrimination of LGBTQ people.
    I had a Stake President talk in Stake Conference several years ago, (if I remember correctly) shortly after the Supreme Court ruling. He proudly discussed that he had taken a look at a bunch of the Youth's social media pages and was disappointed by the amount of content that he had seen supporting same sex marriage and their reluctance to stand up for gospel principles. That comment has obviously stuck with me for some time.

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I appreciate your thoughtful responses. My thoughts are similar to those expressed. However, the change of questions has been suggested by some to be a "raising of the bar." Personally, I think they were designed to help us examine our lives and identify areas in which we can possibly become better. I have a bunch of those, primarily involving not being unnecessarily joyous when BYU or the Dodgers lose.
    I think a lot of the recent changes have been a 'raising of the bar' but most of that has come in the form of personal responsibility and living a more Christlike life. Long before HT/VT was replaced by ministering I called it the Law of Moses for the commandment to Love Thy Neighbor. You can't love your neighbor, well we are going to assign you to do so.

    One raising of the bar in the TR questions expands on living the law of chastity by asking if you strive for moral cleanliness in your thoughts and behavior. An addition is asking if you are striving to keeping the Sabbath day holy and to taking the sacrament. Others I think are clarifying. The 'support and promote' question clarifies it isn't the 'anyone' but the active thing you are doing.

    Others are subtle changes that I think provoke some thought if you catch them. For example, it used to be, "Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and his role as Savior and Redeemer." Now it is, "Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and his role as your Savior and Redeemer." Another is the question used to be, "Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints as prophet, seer and revelator and the only person on earth authorized to exercise priesthood keys." It now says "Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints as the prophet, seer and revelator..." (emphasis mine). They also added, "Do you understand and obey the Word of Wisdom?"

    One other thing - the new language says to wear the garments under the outer layer of clothing. I know many of us were taught to wear it next to the skin - this is more relevant to women than men.

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