The Utah Liquor Law Mess

[Diehard Ute]

I must say, people like Sen Valentine have me scratching my head.

The latest comes today with the debate on a bill to eliminate the 'Zion Curtain' that restaurants must have. The idea being children (and others) are harmed and more likely to drink if they see a glass of wine being poured or a drink being mixed.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...-curtains.html

For the life of me I cannot understand how someone like Sen Valentine can honestly think such an idea works. It's ludicrous.

There are other equally baffling ideas, such as not being able to buy draft 'heavy' beer (16oz pour) but I can buy a bottle (often 22oz)

Perhaps those who are more in touch with the dominating political and religious persuasion can explain to me why logic seems lost on these folks.

[concerned]

I must say, people like Sen Valentine have me scratching my head.

The latest comes today with the debate on a bill to eliminate the 'Zion Curtain' that restaurants must have. The idea being children (and others) are harmed and more likely to drink if they see a glass of wine being poured or a drink being mixed.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...-curtains.html

For the life of me I cannot understand how someone like Sen Valentine can honestly think such an idea works. It's ludicrous.

There are other equally baffling ideas, such as not being able to buy draft 'heavy' beer (16oz pour) but I can buy a bottle (often 22oz)

Perhaps those who are more in touch with the dominating political and religious persuasion can explain to me why logic seems lost on these folks.

Are you dense or something? It seems obvious to me. It is the same reason people like Valentine never let children go to a restuarant outside Utah, because they might see wine poured there. Also the same reason they never let their children seen wine poured in a movie or tv show. And of course, they never let their kids look at a glass of wine or a beer bottle at the table next to them in Utah, either.

[LA Ute]

I must say, people like Sen Valentine have me scratching my head.

The latest comes today with the debate on a bill to eliminate the 'Zion Curtain' that restaurants must have. The idea being children (and others) are harmed and more likely to drink if they see a glass of wine being poured or a drink being mixed.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...-curtains.html

For the life of me I cannot understand how someone like Sen Valentine can honestly think such an idea works. It's ludicrous.

There are other equally baffling ideas, such as not being able to buy draft 'heavy' beer (16oz pour) but I can buy a bottle (often 22oz)

Perhaps those who are more in touch with the dominating political and religious persuasion can explain to me why logic seems lost on these folks.

Nope, can't help you. I think the Utah liquor laws are crazy. But I am a jaded Californian.

[concerned]

Nope, can't help you. I think the Utah liquor laws are crazy. But I am a jaded Californian.

Sounds like you have totally warped your kids (and perhaps yourself) by going out to restaurants.

[LA Ute]

Sounds like you have totally warped your kids (and perhaps yourself) by going out to restaurants.

I'm afraid I have a more boring report to make: It has never come up, and my kids never noticed what was happening at other diners' tables.

[FMCoug]

I'm afraid I have a more boring report to make: It has never come up, and my kids never noticed what was happening at other diners' tables.

Probably because you never freaked out, covered their eyes and lectured them about how evil the other diners are.

Put me in the column of active LDS who think Utah liquor laws are crazy.

[Mormon Red Death]

Stephen L. Richards

I do not mean to say that I doubt the wisdom of the Word of Wisdom. I know that it contains God's wishes and direction for the welfare of His children, and I am sure that those who fail to heed the teaching of it will lose blessings of great worth, but I am not sure that we have not estranged many from the Church or at least contributed to their estragement by attributing to violation of our standards of health, harmful as it may be, a moral turpitude and sinful magnitude out of proportion of the real seriousness of the offense.

[Diehard Ute]

I just wish people like Sen Valentine would quit using DUI and underage drinking as cover for the real reason they want these laws, their moral beliefs.

I think almost everyone knows there are no statistics to back up the DUI and underage drinking claims they make when proposing things like hiding alcohol and limiting heavy beer, yet those with power just keep passing that along as a real reason. Guess most Utah residents are ok with being treated like idiots, cause they keep electing these guys.

[FMCoug]

I just wish people like Sen Valentine would quit using DUI and underage drinking as cover for the real reason they want these laws, their moral beliefs.

I think almost everyone knows there are no statistics to back up the DUI and underage drinking claims they make when proposing things like hiding alcohol and limiting heavy beer, yet those with power just keep passing that along as a real reason. Guess most Utah residents are ok with being treated like idiots, cause they keep electing these guys.

Anybody have a link to DUI and/or underage drinking stats in UT vs. other similar states? It would be interesting to see the data.

[San Diego Ute Fan]

I'm afraid I have a more boring report to make: It has never come up, and my kids never noticed what was happening at other diners' tables.

EXACTLY: Our kids have been born and raised in San Diego and give ZERO thought to what anyone at any other table is or is not drinking. Has never been an issue. I think Utah's liquor laws are absolutely laughable.

[Diehard Ute]

Anybody have a link to DUI and/or underage drinking stats in UT vs. other similar states? It would be interesting to see the data.

We have among, if not the lowest DUI rate and DUI fatality rate in the country. Last year more Utahns were killed from distracted driving (texting) accidents than DUI accidents. The last statistics available are 2010. National average is roughly 3 DUI fatalities for every 100,000 people. Utah was at 1.6


http://www.centurycouncil.org/drunk-driving

Part of my issue though is throwing out DUI and underage drinking as the reason. Restaurants are very unlikely sources for either of those issues.

You're going to get underage drinking at people's homes, that's where the vast majority of underage drinking occurs.

DUI's come from house party's and bars, rarely from someone going out for a meal and having a drink.

[IdahoUteTroutHead]

I took my kids to a party that some friends of our's were having. They saw booze consumed, my 13 year old daughter and 9 year old son are currently in rehab.

Thanks Utah!

[San Diego Ute Fan]

Anybody have a link to DUI and/or underage drinking stats in UT vs. other similar states? It would be interesting to see the data.

The week I graduated from Skyline High, a member of our senior class got drunk at a kegger in Millcreek Canyon and killed himself at the 4-way stop at the bottom. I'd be very surprised if rates are much lower in Utah than anywhere else.

[BYU71]

You wonder what a "protected" person thinks when they go off to college or if they went to BYU after graduating they go into the work force and of all things, find out there a wonderful, good, solid people, who drink and heaven forbid a few that smoke.

I mean hadn't they been protected all their lives from seeing and associating with these evil people and now to come face to face with the fact they aren't evil. Yikes.

[Diehard Ute]

Rep. Earl Tanner, R-West Jordan, pointed out dangers alcohol poses to developing brains, and added that Zion curtains may be inconvenient and ugly, but "we need to do everything we can to keep kids from drinking." - See more at: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/5....yrZiN8TU.dpuf


This is exactly the type of stupid thinking I'm talking about.

One interesting note, Rep Becky Lockhart, speaker of the house, said she expects the law to pass as Zion Curtains are "weird"

[Chad Sexington]

I must say, people like Sen Valentine have me scratching my head.

The latest comes today with the debate on a bill to eliminate the 'Zion Curtain' that restaurants must have. The idea being children (and others) are harmed and more likely to drink if they see a glass of wine being poured or a drink being mixed.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...-curtains.html

For the life of me I cannot understand how someone like Sen Valentine can honestly think such an idea works. It's ludicrous.

There are other equally baffling ideas, such as not being able to buy draft 'heavy' beer (16oz pour) but I can buy a bottle (often 22oz)

Perhaps those who are more in touch with the dominating political and religious persuasion can explain to me why logic seems lost on these folks.

I don't think that they even bother with the pretense anymore, it's just shameless pandering to a provencal constituency. Me talk dumb so dumb peepol vote me.

[Chad Sexington]

I took my kids to a party that some friends of our's were having. They saw booze consumed, my 13 year old daughter and 9 year old son are currently in rehab.

Thanks Utah!

[Pheidippides]

Stephen L. Richards

This entire talk is golden and was given precisely to combat ideas like a Zion Curtain.

Elder Richards got censured for the talk privately after the fact, by the way.

[Mano]

Obviously the law exists because if people are able to see the alcohol they will be tempted to pour it on Max Hall's family.

[Diehard Ute]

Interesting to note there were 13 comments as of this morning on the Deseret News and KSL articles most supported the removal. The couple who didn't made very odd comments about alcohol. I'd mention the Trib's comments but that's like visiting a zombie version of this lovely forum.

I know it's shocking the Utah legislature is out of touch.

[DanielLaRusso]

Just a reminder that you're all a bunch of children

[IdahoUteTroutHead]

I can't hear you over this beer.

[Diehard Ute]

So, time to resurrect this thread.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politic...owell.html.csp

I really wish I, as an adult and voter, got as much respect as an entity. For what it's worth I wrote my legislator on a liquor law issue 3 months ago. I've never even gotten a "thanks for contacting me".

Anyone who thinks for one second the "Zion Curtain" has any actual value really needs a reality check

[LA Ute]

For the record this teetotaler thinks Utah's liquor laws are silly.

[tooblue]

For the record this teetotaler thinks Utah's liquor laws are silly.

You know what's even sillier? They are not all that unique. They basically have very similar liquor laws here in the great white north. What's more it's only been 10 or so years since they allowed business to remain open on Sundays. Whereas everything in Utah is open on a Sunday. Go figure.

[Diehard Ute]

You know what's even sillier? They are not all that unique. They basically have very similar liquor laws here in the great white north. What's more it's only been 10 or so years since they allowed business to remain open on Sundays. Whereas everything in Utah is open on a Sunday. Go figure.

Not everything. In the last 10 years Utah has forced car dealerships to close. Technically they don't have to close on Sunday, but their other choice is Saturday which no one will do.

And I'm pretty sure I can buy a 6% beer on tap in the great white north, and they don't have to pour it behind a wall.

[Diehard Ute]

For the record this teetotaler thinks Utah's liquor laws are silly.

I think most people do...except for the ones who reside at 50 E North Temple and who work on the Senate side of the capital.

I'm all for practical restrictions that help curb drunk driving or underage drinking. Most of Utah's laws do none of that, they just make people with a moral issue feel happy. Bad reason to have a law IMO.

[tooblue]

Not everything. In the last 10 years Utah has forced car dealerships to close. Technically they don't have to close on Sunday, but their other choice is Saturday which no one will do.

And I'm pretty sure I can buy a 6% beer on tap in the great white north, and they don't have to pour it behind a wall.

I am talking about Malls and grocery stores closed on Sundays, not car dealerships. And of course you can buy 6% beer on tap ... but if you don't want to go to the pub you can buy it from the provincially owned and operated Beer Store. So long as you get there before the weekend when it's closed or at a time when the Beer store workers aren't on strike.

[Diehard Ute]

I am talking about Malls and grocery stores closed on Sundays, not car dealerships. And of course you can buy 6% beer on tap ... but if you don't want to go to the pub you can buy it from the provincially owned and operated Beer Store. So long as you get there before the weekend when it's closed or at a time when the Beer store workers aren't on strike.

Can't buy 6% beer on tap in Utah....even in a bar.

[tooblue]

Can't buy 6% beer on tap in Utah....even in a bar.

I don't imagine you can buy it anywhere in the States ... I'm a teetotaler like LA so I really don't know. I do spend a fair amount of time in Germany these days. Judging by the fact average Germans are walking about town or riding their bike with a beer bottle in their hand by 3:00 pm each day, I'd say US and Canadian laws are uber strict.