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Thread: I learned in Church today

  1. #721
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Why would anyone be in St. George on a weekend during August?


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    To contrast the Bear Lake trip last week.

    Actually St G was only 3 degrees warmer than SLC and the air was significantly more clean. And I'm trying to talk my wife into moving down there full-time.

  2. #722
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    To contrast the Bear Lake trip last week.

    Actually St G was only 3 degrees warmer than SLC and the air was significantly more clean. And I'm trying to talk my wife into moving down there full-time.
    This past week I flew from SLC to LA, and from LA to Fresno, and from Fresno to Salt Lake. The smoke in the air was astonishing. For large stretches the ground was barely visible.There was no letup from it anywhere along those three routes.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #723
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    To contrast the Bear Lake trip last week.

    Actually St G was only 3 degrees warmer than SLC and the air was significantly more clean. And I'm trying to talk my wife into moving down there full-time.
    I had no idea you were 85


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  4. #724
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    To contrast the Bear Lake trip last week.

    Actually St G was only 3 degrees warmer than SLC and the air was significantly more clean. And I'm trying to talk my wife into moving down there full-time.
    It's like you're jamming all of the Scratch youth family vacations into one summer!

  5. #725
    Malleus Cougarorum Solon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    I had no idea you were 85


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    LOL. Bravo.

    St. George is brutal in the summer.
    σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
    -- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.

  6. #726
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solon View Post
    LOL. Bravo.

    St. George is brutal in the summer.
    It was a cool 109 degrees last Saturday. I may/may not have been there last weekend. I am too fragile to say.

  7. #727
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    It was a cool 109 degrees last Saturday. I may/may not have been there last weekend. I am too fragile to say.
    Its kind of like Phoenix... it is mandatory to have a pool to live there. I will say, I would take 3 months of heat and being trapped inside during daylight to the 5 months of cold and being trapped inside day and night and gunk in the air we get in SLC right now.

    The ONLY thing that keeps me from losing my mind in the winter is a season ski pass that gets me out of the inversion and outdoors. In my household we are basically one season pass away from doing a Utah version of The Shining.

  8. #728
    It looks like the football team got busted performing baptisms on players again! De’Vonte Henry Cole turned his red shirt in for a white jump suit today. Cool.




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  9. #729
    Just learned we are singing my two favorite hymns in church today, an I have no voice after the game last night. The sacrifices you make sometimes.
    I saw a door that said exit only. So I entered through it and went up to the guy working there and said "I have good news. You have severely underestimated that door over there. By like a hundred percent." Demetri Marti

  10. #730
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I learned in Church today

    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    An elementary school teacher shared this Nibley quote in sacrament meeting today while talking about the Armistice Day anniversary:

    “[I recall] certain dashing, wonderful men who, during World War II, used to brief the various units of the 101st Airborne Division which they were leading into battle. (The classic Leader's Oration before the Battle enjoyed a revival in airborne operations where the army, a short hour before the battle, could sit quietly on the grass one hundred miles from the enemy and listen to speeches.) It was the high point of their careers, the thing they had been working and hoping and looking forward to all their lives—to lead a crack regiment or division into battle, and they made the most of it. The feeling of euphoria was almost overpowering—they were smart, sharp, vigorous, compelling, eager, tense, exuding optimism and even humor, but above all excitement. Invariably General Maxwell Taylor would end his oration with: "Good hunting!" It was wonderful, thrilling; you were ready to follow that man anywhere.But before the operation was a day old, every man in the division was heartily wishing that he was anywhere else, doing anything else but that; everyone knew in his mind and heart that he was not sent to earth to engage in this nasty and immoral business. The heroism and sacrifice were real—the situation was utterly satanic and shameful; the POWs we rounded up to interrogate were men just as good as we were, the victims of a terrible circumstance that the devil's game of power and gain had woven around them.”
    Great quote. Good reminder that we need to balance recognition of the horror and evil in war, on one side, against the bravery and sacrifice of those who fought and died, and stood in harm’s way for the rest of us, and gratitude we owe them.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 11-13-2018 at 12:38 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #731
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    we had a suicide in our ward this week, active LDS female, returned missionary, college graduate, married with 3 kids took her life. We heard 4-5 sirens close by that night, but didn't learn what had happened till the next day. Our bishop could barely get through conducting the sacrament service today, he was understandably overcome with emotion. It has been difficult and harrowing to watch and pretty humbling for our ward/neighborhood.

  12. #732
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    we had a suicide in our ward this week, active LDS female, returned missionary, college graduate, married with 3 kids took her life. We heard 4-5 sirens close by that night, but didn't learn what had happened till the next day. Our bishop could barely get through conducting the sacrament service today, he was understandably overcome with emotion. It has been difficult and harrowing to watch and pretty humbling for our ward/neighborhood.
    How awful. I’m sure the ward is rallying around the family. There’s always a lot of pain, sadness, and anguish combined with guilt in those situations. A close colleague of mine just lost her brother to suicide last Thursday. He had a long history of mental illness, and she is now struggling with feelings of guilt over not doing more to help him. It is such a tough thing.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  13. #733
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Ugh, I’m dreading today. The funeral is this afternoon for a lady in our ward/neighborhood that killed herself. I’ve been to funerals, but can’t ever recall attending one under these circumstances. Typically, I find LDS funerals mostly comforting, even when the death was someone young or if the death was sudden and unexpected. Usually I have a feeling of hope and comfort after, but this one just feels different (dark and bleak). My wife is struggling. Lots of mixed emotions of guilt, anger and sadness. Thanks for allowing me to vent, just needed to get it out somewhere.

  14. #734
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    Ugh, I’m dreading today. The funeral is this afternoon for a lady in our ward/neighborhood that killed herself. I’ve been to funerals, but can’t ever recall attending one under these circumstances. Typically, I find LDS funerals mostly comforting, even when the death was someone young or if the death was sudden and unexpected. Usually I have a feeling of hope and comfort after, but this one just feels different (dark and bleak). My wife is struggling. Lots of mixed emotions of guilt, anger and sadness. Thanks for allowing me to vent, just needed to get it out somewhere.
    My wife's brother committed suicide around 15 years ago. It's an incredibly sad time. We felt many of the emotions come into play: sadness, anger, guilt, confusion. It can be hard to know how to feel, let alone provide solace and support to those closest to the victim. And sometimes religious doctrine doesn't give solace, but can make things worse.

    It's been said that we won't be tempted beyond our ability to bear in this life, but the reality is that some mental illness is more than some can bear. It's impossible for us to know what thoughts were tormenting the person who chose to take their life. But our faith tells us that Christ knows their pain intimately, as well as those who are left behind.
    I saw a door that said exit only. So I entered through it and went up to the guy working there and said "I have good news. You have severely underestimated that door over there. By like a hundred percent." Demetri Marti

  15. #735
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    My wife's brother committed suicide around 15 years ago. It's an incredibly sad time. We felt many of the emotions come into play: sadness, anger, guilt, confusion. It can be hard to know how to feel, let alone provide solace and support to those closest to the victim. And sometimes religious doctrine doesn't give solace, but can make things worse.

    It's been said that we won't be tempted beyond our ability to bear in this life, but the reality is that some mental illness is more than some can bear. It's impossible for us to know what thoughts were tormenting the person who chose to take their life. But our faith tells us that Christ knows their pain intimately, as well as those who are left behind.
    well said, TY

  16. #736
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    Ugh, I’m dreading today. The funeral is this afternoon for a lady in our ward/neighborhood that killed herself. I’ve been to funerals, but can’t ever recall attending one under these circumstances. Typically, I find LDS funerals mostly comforting, even when the death was someone young or if the death was sudden and unexpected. Usually I have a feeling of hope and comfort after, but this one just feels different (dark and bleak). My wife is struggling. Lots of mixed emotions of guilt, anger and sadness. Thanks for allowing me to vent, just needed to get it out somewhere.
    We had a ward member commit suicide in our old ward a number of years ago - totally rocked the ward like it sounds like this one has. He had a wife and little boy and another baby on the way. Super good guy and I don't think anyone saw it coming.

    His family (including his parents, siblings etc) were obviously devastated, but it also was one of the most comforting funerals I've ever been too. They focused a lot on the Atonement, forgiveness and how the spirit can comfort everyone. They focused on all of the good he brought into the world and didn't dwell on the circumstances. It was a rallying point for the ward around the family to support his wife and children.

    I hope you (and her loved ones) can find similar comfort. Comfort is out there.

    Edit to add:

    This prompted me to look up his wife and see what was going on as we had lost contact a while back. She had remarried, and along with her first two sons from her husband who committed suicide has four more daughters. She had posted this on FB and I think it is worth posting here. I've removed some identifying info.

    It's now been 13 years today since my first husband, Justin, died. Time continues to speed up and life continues to go on. For the first time, I'm starting to see Justin in Ty. The way Ty's eyes close and his shoulders shake when he laughs. Even his smile looks more and more like Justin's. Charlie has an adventurous heart just like his dad did. He loves any opportunity he has to jump on a 4 wheeler or be outdoors. It's incredible to me to see so much of a man inside both of them that wasn't there to raise them. I see this as further evidence that our loved ones are never really gone, that they are always a part of us.

    I was able to spend an afternoon with [Justin's] family after [his] dad died. It had been years since I had seen some of them, but it was also as if no time had passed at all. I felt a deep familiar love for each of them. I believe this is what heaven will feel like. No matter how long the separation from our loved ones, we will recognize their smile and their laughter and reminisce about all of the good times we had together.

    I also know it's a good thing to celebrate the life I have been given. I feel blessed to be married to a man who made every effort to understand and support Ty while he wrestled this past year. Jeff never cared about this sport, but he knew it was important to Ty and so it became important to him as well. He was there to take Chuck snowboarding and celebrate with him after doing a fantastic job as stage crew for his school's musical. He has been Ty's Home teaching companion this past year and has faithfully taken Ty and expected him to teach as well. He takes the boys to the temple monthly and makes Priesthood Conference something to be cherished and remembered rather than dreaded. He is who my boys need to push them to be their best. He is their biggest fan. He doesn't take this sacred role lightly.

    I believe besides my boys and his family, Justin probably loves Jeff most of all. I have felt this many times in my heart. I know they will someday meet and embrace each other. I feel blessed to have been given the life I have. It isn't always easy. My boys still hurt, I still hurt. I'm not sure that will ever really go away, but I'm not sure it's supposed to. I feel blessed to still be involved in [Justin's families] lives. [They] are the most Christ-like people I've ever met. They have always embraced me no matter what the circumstance. How grateful I am for the life I've been given. It wasn't the life I had envisioned as a Young Woman sitting in my seminary class, but it was the life I needed.
    Last edited by Rocker Ute; 01-29-2019 at 03:48 PM.

  17. #737
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    My wife's brother committed suicide around 15 years ago. It's an incredibly sad time. We felt many of the emotions come into play: sadness, anger, guilt, confusion. It can be hard to know how to feel, let alone provide solace and support to those closest to the victim. And sometimes religious doctrine doesn't give solace, but can make things worse.

    It's been said that we won't be tempted beyond our ability to bear in this life, but the reality is that some mental illness is more than some can bear. It's impossible for us to know what thoughts were tormenting the person who chose to take their life. But our faith tells us that Christ knows their pain intimately, as well as those who are left behind.
    The CHOI makes it clear that we should understand that people who commit suicide often (I would say usually) are not able to make good decisions. They may be buried in temple clothes. And, Elder Renlund recently spoke about the subject:

    There's an old sectarian notion that suicide is a sin and that someone who commits suicide is banished to hell forever. That is totally false," Elder Renlund said. "I believe the vast majority of cases will find that these individuals have lived heroic lives and that that suicide will not be a defining characteristic of their eternities."
    Short video of him here:

    https://youtu.be/hCR8tWKEbxo

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  18. #738
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The CHOI makes it clear that we should understand that people who commit suicide often (I would say usually) are not able to make good decisions. They may be buried in temple clothes. And, Elder Renlund recently spoke about the subject:



    Short video of him here:

    https://youtu.be/hCR8tWKEbxo
    Great insight.

    I know growing up I always considered suicide a sin. I believe it was referred to as such in MConkie's Mormon Doctrine. It seems that topic has evolved for the better over the years.

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