I don't recall the earlier letter but it doesn't surprise me. Some things never change, I guess, but if they get better for a while I'll take that. The goofy testimony meeting habits are annoying but kind of lovable. If it got to the point in our ward that people who wanted to speak couldn't, though, we'd do something about it.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
So years ago my nearly 90 year old grandfather decided to go out in a flame of glory. Apparently he got up in his ward of 50 years and went on a rant that reportedly included a chiding of parents "who get up during testimony meeting and whisper in their children's ears like they were the Holy Ghost." I believe that was some of the nicer things he said.
My dad got a call from an old friend who told him about the whole thing. A few weeks later he had a stroke and went to a care facility to live out the rest of his years. I've always thought that saying was awesome (despite losing his filter in his older years he really was a very remarkable and accomplished man), and think of it each time I see it. He was right.
I've wondered if this is more of a younger demographic ward problem. My ward which is a mixed demographic and almost never has that happen. We went to my BIL's ward in Lehi and another BIL in West Jordan and they had a line of people with their children all waiting to do it. It took up 75% of the meeting and was massively irritating.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
What's sad is that I can do this:
Na NA na na na nanaNAna. na na na na na NAAAAA. Na na Na na NANA NA! Na na.
And you all know what it sounds like.
"This culture doesn't sell modesty. It sells "I am more modest than you" modesty." -- Two Utes
I have never experienced this fast and testimony phenomenon. There has always been ample time for the same 10 -15 people to share their feelings. And there is usually plenty of silence between testimonies.
In fact I have always found it amusing to listen to the heavy breathing of a 3 year old as he puts his mouth on the microphone and waits for his mom to tell him what to say. I don't find it any less uplifting than listening to 15 minutes of someone testifying about indexing.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
[nerd alert]
In The Lord of the Rings, early on in the first book, the four hobbits are wandering through the Old Forest in an effort to avoid nasty riders. The Old Forest is itself a dangerous and odd place, and at one point the hobbits crest a hill in a open glade and survey the scenery.
One hobbit points out a valley called the Withywindle and marks it as the very source of queerness, warning the others that they certainly don't want to go that way. Unfortunately they end up going that way anyway and nearly get killed by an old malicious tree.
I think of the Withywindle valley often every time I reflect on my time at BYU and the UC.
[/nerd alert] NerdSmiley.gif
Last edited by LA Ute; 03-25-2013 at 10:48 AM.
I'm guessing it is probably common for many new communities springing up that attract young families. I'm sure Lehi and Saratoga Springs, Daybreak, and in Davis County Foxboro and West Farmington/Kaysville are all pretty similar.
“To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.
They read a letter in our ward announcing a new edition of the scriptures.
You're not in Mission Viejo, are you? In a former ward, the gospel doctrine teacher was divorced, and I was always hearing how her ex-husband abandoned her, and what a jerk he was.
I'm a divorce lawyer, and after I moved from that ward, I started working for the firm representing her ex-husband, and I got an entirely different perspective of her. She was bitter and vindictive and trying to avoid having to work. Plus, most of the stories about how her husband abandoned her and wouldn't support his kids turned out to just be not true. Her case went up on a couple of appeals, and the appellate court didn't seem to be particularly sympathetic to her, either.
I learned that Easter Sunday can produce a great sacrament meeting if the right people are in charge and they put lots of talent and love and spirit into it.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Today, ours was a bit odd but okay. They had to departing missionaries talk today. It was for both of them the "not a farewell" Sunday.
They both spoke, at least briefly, on the Atonement.
The only part of it I did not like was that both talks veered a bit into the realm of them talking about their preparations for their missions and the typical "farewell" stuff.
The ward choir sang a couple of numbers. It was nice.
But there was this odd kind of dynamic. Like you were pairing two things that didn't necessarily work out well together.
But it was Easter. I don't understand why the Bishopric didn't do this last Sunday.
An interesting Patheos blog post on Greek Orthodox Easter traditions.
Greek Easter or: How I Learned to Stop Whining and Love Traditions
Growing up, we didn’t have many holiday traditions. The only thing we always did was go to both my dad’s parents’ house and then my mom’s parents’ house.... But the one thing we never had was a Grand Dinner. You know what I mean? The kind that is preceded by days of preparation and anticipation, where tablecloths are laid and candles are lit and traditional foods are served and if anything is forgotten or changed the whole family acts like catastrophe has struck? Yeah. That wasn’t my family.
Then I married into that family, and holidays became a whole new experience....
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
So on the topic of sacrament meeting. I probably haven't been through an entire meeting since my son was born 2.5 years ago. The first year or so was probably just me finding excuses and whatnot to not attend (feeding him, etc.). Last year we had 1 o'clock church with sac meeting last, meaning it would take place from 2:45-4. With a toddler, I found this IMPOSSIBLE to attend. It was right during his nap time and if he doesn't get a nap, we all suffer.
He is a very active kid, basically, he does not sit still...EVER. I've been told I was the exact same way when I was a child. My question is this, how do I deal with this? We've attempted many times this year to take him into the meeting room, it usually ends before the sacrament is served, with him screaming and snarky comments and looks from others in the ward. The last few weeks we've just sat outside the room on the couches and taken the sacrament there and let him run around. At some point he's either going to mellow out and be able to handle sitting still for an hour, we're going to stop trying to go to sacrament entirely, or I'm going to lose my mind.
Please tell me some of you have gone through something similar. I realize the problem might be at least partially our fault for not getting him used to sacrament meeting from an early age. We've tried treats, Ipad, toys... They help but inevitably he tries to wander about the room and it makes us incredibly self-conscious to have others look at us like we have no idea what we're doing.
I learned yesterday that Mosiah 15 is my very favorite chapter in the BoM. It was an answer to prayer and much pondering. It was evidence to me that God knows me.
"The best way to obtain truth and wisdom is not to ask from books, but to go to God in prayer, and obtain divine teaching."
Joseph Smith, Jr.
LA, so why did you need the Stake President permission to do an Easter Program? Does the stake set the Fast & Testimony schedule for all of the wards? Was this just a nicety to ask permission first, or could you as the bishopric just changed it on your own based on what is best for your ward?
We had something similar happen yesterday. Our ward was really empty so we decided to sit as close to the front as possible, which meant sitting by the older empty-nesters. My five year old kept putting her hands on the top of the pew in front of her and touching this older guy. Finally he turned around and removed her hands and gave us the nastiest look. So I guess we now know our place is back in the rear of the chapel with the other rowdy kids.
I was just planning out sacrament meeting talk topics for the year (we do that in our ward) and noticed that the stake calendar had Easter Sunday as a fast Sunday. We wanted to have an Easter program (my wife is the ward music director and we like Easter programs) so I simply asked the stake exec. sec. if they had thought about that calendaring issue, and could we just do our fast and testimony meeting the week after General Conference? After asking a few questions the SP said "sure." It worked out well. Lots of people came who don't ordinarily attend church (you know what they say about Christmas and Easter) and lots of investigators came. It was a great, spiritual program. Just what we hoped for.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
What parent has any idea what their doing? People who profess to know this should be met with the highest skepticism. Any person giving you dirty looks has either, 1. Not ever had a child, or 2. Suffers from age-induced memory loss and has forgotten how their children actually were.
Aside from those handful of folks, don't misinterpret people's gazes as criticism, it is probably pity from having experienced it themselves.
I have two uncommonly good kids, and one who is probably right smack dab on normal as far as behavior goes, but feels like a hurricane juxtaposed to the other two. Even with the two easy ones, we experienced fits in public places like church, parks, grocery stores. I remember with my first one, he threw a minor fit in the grocery store that embarrassed me incredibly. I pulled him out of the cart and left it full in the aisle and started to head for the doors. Some guy stopped me and said, "Dude, don't worry about it man, nobody who matters gives a f***." Good life lesson actually.
The more active child, behavior-wise, is two and has taught herself how to belch loudly... like a man. She took the sacrament, swallowed air, let our a huge burp that was audible through the whole room and then said, "Ahh.... that was GOOD!" My other two kids collapsed on the ground in laughter, which of course reinforced the whole thing. I had one or two dirty looks, but I had a number of people after tell me that they wish something like that would happen every Sunday. I wish something like that would happen every Sunday with someone else's kids.
I don't know that I have any great things to add other than what's already been said by others. I've got a 4 year old boy and a 1 year old girl. The boy went through that phase like every kid does; the girl is just getting to that point where she is fully mobile and wants to just wander off if she's bored.
With my son, things that I found that helped were (like Sancho did) practicing sitting still at home, preparing beforehand by talking about what is going to happen ("remember, tomorrow/today is church and then...."), giving the kid a break from sitting once or twice during the meeting (just get up and take a lap around the hall, go to the bathroom, get a drink, etc and then come back and try again) and of course, snacks and activities (quiet toys, books, coloring, etc). Even with all of that, it never goes as well as you would hope but you get through. If your fellow ward members are being jerks about it then that is their problem and not yours. You do your best and others can deal with the results.
I agree with you fully on 1:00 church meetings--absolutely awful (for just about everyone in my opinion, but especially for younger children). I have 1:00 church this year; I'm a slacker (and I realize this contradicts part of my previous paragraph to some extent) and my wife and I take turns taking our 1 year old home after sacrament meeting (which is first in our ward) because she simply can't handle missing her afternoon nap. We do that despite the fact that we are both in presidencies that would generally require us to be there for the third hour. We find that by staying through nap time we not only make our presence in church pointless (can't sit and listen for a minute) but we also ruin the rest of our Sunday and it even spills over into Monday before we can get our little girl back "on schedule". Not worth it for that hour of church (I feel differently about the necessity of sacrament meeting).
I also have the added struggle of dealing with nonmember family and working around 1:00 church meetings. My wife's mother's side of her family is all non-LDS. Since the beginning of time they have gotten together at 1:00 on one Sunday a month to celebrate holidays and birthdays and stuff. It always becomes a fine line trying to prioritize our worship services but still let the family know that they are important to us and we care about them. It's a tough balancing act. Many of the family on that side have hard feelings toward the LDS church, which doesn't help. There's no point to all of this rambling except to say, I really would like to live in a world without 1:00 church block meetings.