Today a high councilman said he grew up in California always wanting tacos for Thanksgiving dinner and called it a "Lamanite Thanksgiving". I spent the rest of the block trying to decide if this was unintentionally offensive.
Today a high councilman said he grew up in California always wanting tacos for Thanksgiving dinner and called it a "Lamanite Thanksgiving". I spent the rest of the block trying to decide if this was unintentionally offensive.
Groan.Originally Posted by UBlender
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
You probably don't want to know about an event we had called "Christmas in Zarahemla" that featured Mexican fare and a guy MC-ing the event in a sombrero and doing his most best 'Mexican accent'. Let's just say it still gets talked about today.
No bueno.
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We also had a high councilman speak yesterday. I have to admit that it was probably the best high council talk I have heard in a long time, if not ever. He spoke on being nice and using kind words. He shared some humorous and touching experiences in his own life and even my 10 and 7 year old paid attention. I was very impressed and uplifted.
A Precursor to Thanksgiving?
The Hebrew Festival of Weeks
Generally, Freewill offerings were non-obligatory, voluntary offerings (duh) as governed by the general "peace offerings" restrictions laid out in Leviticus 3 & 7. It's unclear (to me) the exact differences between Thanksgiving Offerings & Freewill Offerings, other than how they were administered. As it's laid out here, the implication is that the sacrificial meat & food would be shared out among those in attendance.Deuteronomy 16.9-12
9 Count off seven weeks from the time you begin to put the sickle to the standing grain. 10 Then celebrate the Festival of Weeks to the Lord your God by giving a freewill offering in proportion to the blessings the Lord your God has given you. 11 And rejoice before the Lord your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name—you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, the Levites in your towns, and the foreigners, the fatherless and the widows living among you. 12 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt, and follow carefully these decrees.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...16&version=NIV
Either way, the same idea is present: Be generous. Rejoice. Share your bounty with the foreigners & the priests & the widows & the fatherless. Remember the trials your ancestors suffered to give you a better life.
Seems like a nice message.
Happy Thanksgiving this week, my friends.
σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
-- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.
did the High Council Speaker open his talk by informing you that the Stake Presidency sends their love? I wish they would just mix it up. SP sends their general disinterest, their warmest regards, their contempt, their wish you were more faithful disconcerting smirk, etc.
I learned that speakers using visual aids creatively and appropriately can really add to their sacrament meeting talks, even if The Handbook says we're not supposed to use them. (Actually, I've always known this, but was reminded of it yesterday.)
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I served on our HC for 5 years. I can think of only one time when the stake presidency specifically asked us to send their love to the wards in our talks. It was the week after the Cedar Fire burned 2200 homes to the ground, many of which belonged to members of our stake. It was very heartfelt, genuine, and needed. I think the phrase is over-used for the most part.did the High Council Speaker open his talk by informing you that the Stake Presidency sends their love? I wish they would just mix it up. SP sends their general disinterest, their warmest regards, their contempt, their wish you were more faithful disconcerting smirk, etc.
Random comment: An apostle (who I will not name) told me that high councilors are to be called high councilors, NOT high councilmen. A councilman works in city government.
Last edited by San Diego Ute Fan; 11-25-2013 at 04:19 PM.
Desse jeito, não tem jeito.
We sang in opening exercises of priesthood meeting, "If you could hie..." for five Sundays in a row. The person making the decision added a verse each week, which means I said 'there is no end...' 36x in three weeks.
I hope I never sing that song again, I went from general dislike of the song to complete hatred of it.
In sunday school we discussed the Official Declaration 2. The question came up as to how blacks were denied the priesthood in the first place. After several comments a lady in the ward who has adopted three black kids shared her views. She was honest in her feelings but faithful to her testimony. It was a good meeting.
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We had the same lesson, and our teacher (a good friend) was really worried about it. We have a few AA members in the class, and an AA investigator. It ended up working out great. The killer moment came when someone read the new preamble to Official Declaration 2, which is is not in the older print editions. In my opinion (we didn't discuss this in class) that language comes awfully close to acknowledging that the entire "practice" (not a doctrine, not even a policy) probably arose from a mistake that the church just got locked into and couldn't get out of for over 100 years. Everyone in the class accepted the language. Notably, probably 80% of the class either were not alive or were not members in 1978.
Last edited by LA Ute; 11-25-2013 at 05:21 PM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Does it conflict you to see the issue dealt with in that way? Or (I ask without sarcasm) do you think most people are just eager enough to put that all behind them that any explanation will probably do? I've never thought there was a "good" way to deal with that issue.
“The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.”
― Carl Sagan
I frankly see it as a gradual acknowledgement that somewhere along the way there was an error that took one heck of a long time to correct -- or an acknowledgement at least that an error might be one of the bases for what happened. We are moving at a glacial pace, but I can live with that.
I reported once on TMBFKACUF that I've talked to many AA members of the church, as well as many non-Mormon AAs, most born after 1978, who don't care about this issue. The members in predominantly AA wards in D.C. area, for example, tell me the question never comes up in their meetings. That's all anecdotal, of course. I personally find their acceptance and forgiveness quite touching, frankly. They are more generous than I think I would be in their shoes.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I think that if you are AA and Mormon that you had to clear that hurdle in some fashion before you ever joined or when you came into adulthood and gained some awareness of the issue. I think the issue of what is doctrine, practice, policy is difficult to grapple with. I know it is why SU says there is no real doctrine in the church. That is overstating things, but the reality is that there are some things which were at one point doctrine which later came to be characterized as policies. Things that those with authority to say so provided very well thought our reasons for while stating it was not possible for them to change.
This exchange between Dr. Lowery Nelson and the First Presidency is an interesting example of that. It is also an example that gives the Ordain Women movement a lot of hope. I think it is really hard to claim, as Dallin Oaks did last conference, that some things just can't change, in light of prior identical claims turning out to not be correct.
http://thoughtsonthingsandstuff.com/...rch/#Addendums
“The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.”
― Carl Sagan
I'm not endorsing that blog. I don't know the guy who writes it or anything about him. But I think he links the letters, which are well worth reading. You can draw your own conclusions from them without needing anyone to digest it for you. In fact, a quick search comes up with this which gives just the letter exchange:
http://www.mormondocs.org/2013/06/le...ncy-to-dr.html
EDIT: Err....parts of it anyway.
2nd EDIT: Better yet, here are photos of the original documents.
https://archive.org/stream/LowryNels...e/n10/mode/1up
Last edited by UtahDan; 12-03-2013 at 10:23 AM.
“The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.”
― Carl Sagan
Just read Jessop quit the MoTab.
When I was 12, we hosted a dinner with Bob Hales, who told us that if my grandfather managed to stay active, he would have led the MoTab for a very long time.
I wonder why Jessop quit so abruptly?
Thanks, UD. Those are very interesting, albeit declared null and void after June 1978.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Dan, have you read the biography "David O McKay and the rise of Modern Mormonism"? The section regarding this is fascinating and the narrative from that is interesting in context of this link.
I am a fan of Greg Prince. I can't wait for his biography on Paul H. Dunn.
In Sacrament Meeting I learned that over 75% of evolutionary biologists and genetic scientists believe in a divine Creator. I want to see the data from that study, particularly want to see how broadly they defined 'God'.
I took the baby to the mall and went Christmas shopping for 2nd and 3rd hour. I know we had a better time at the mall than he would have had in nursery or me in SS or Priesthood.
These are pretty interesting.
On a secondary level, I'm intrigued by the intimation that the Cubans would be receptive to LDS preaching because of the church's youth programs, lay ministry, and social activities. This (to me) is a far cry from the sense of "everyone needs to gospel for its saving ordinances." The approach here is so pragmatic, insisting on the church as a social institution intended to provide social support. It doesn't really delve into the mystical elements of conversion or the urgency of salvation.
Today's missionary messages strike me as an imperative to spread the Gospel through mystical experiences with the Holy Ghost.
These letters seem content to spread the church.
σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
-- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.
I admit I find it troubling that the LDS Church has admitted that the Priesthood Ban was more about racism than about revelation. I have always shelved that topic in my mind as one of those things we weren't meant to understand in this life (like polygamy).
I love the new approach just because it clears away a lot of the nonsense and speculation that has grown up to explain the old ban -- lack of valor in the pre-mortal existence, etc. etc., ad nauseum. I am curious -- does anyone know if BY ever said, "The Lord has revealed to me that black men are not to receive the priesthood?" or even "That's the awy the Lord wants it, according to the scriptures?" I really don't know. I suspect he did not.
Last edited by LA Ute; 12-11-2013 at 02:08 PM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
It shouldn't be too troubling as we, collectively and individually, are taught to strive for an increase in light and knowledge. The leaders of the church have received further light and knowledge that early church leaders, and much of the country, were racist and that it clouded their judgement. "[A] living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet." Fundamental 3 of 14 in Following the Prophet.
Last edited by Sullyute; 12-11-2013 at 02:06 PM.
"The prophet does not have to say "thus saith the Lord" to give us scripture" - Fundamental 6 of 14 in Following the Prophet.
“I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call scripture.” Brigham Young (Journal of Discourses, 13:95.)
Last edited by Sullyute; 12-11-2013 at 02:10 PM.
The revised 9th article of faith.
9 We believe all that God has arevealed (except when the prophet had clouded judgement), all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet breveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
I'm half joking, but that was a gigantic swing and miss by Pres. Young.
Even the mighty Casey struck out.
Har-har. Point taken. I'm just wondering what exactly he said.
My personal theory is that BY decided to adopt this "practice" (which, before it became a practice, used to be a policy, and before it became a policy, used to be a doctrine, etc., etc.), which then became locked in. Because of the nature of the church and other factors (for example, the requirement of unanimity in votes by the Q12 on changes in practice/policy/doctrine) it took 126 years to change. (That's a laughably simplistic and terse summary of a hugely complex and painful episode, and even in saying that I'm grossly understating nearly everything). Probably for the first 20+ years hardly anyone paid attention to it.
I've often wondered what BY's thinking was. Maybe in 1852 he was afraid that if the church ordained AAs it would be sucked into the slavery controversy? There were effectively no mixed-race churches (or even communities) in that day, so it might have seemed like a pretty radical abolitionist step to take. I am not defending anything, just wondering how the whole thing really got started.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I don't have a real answer to your question, however given that the quotes the church used for Brigham Young were given at the same time the territory approved "servitude", and seeing the pragmatism of Brigham Young, he might have simply had a handful of poor free blacks, and a handful of rich white slaveowners, and choose to side with the later as he needed their money and influence in establishing the land of Deseret. Once again, your guess is as good as mine.
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