I learned in Church today

[wally]

It's my understanding that Pres. Hinckley decided that all temple worker must meet missionary grooming standards. IN the L.A. Temple a prior temple president interpreted this to mean that our bishop (who was about 78 years old) could not perform temple baptisms because he had a mustache. I also was excluded for the same reason. It was a pretty embarrassing experience in front of our youth. I'm not sure if the current temple president takes the same position.

Of all of the camplaints about the LDS Church, this is by FAR the one I embrace most. So. Freakin. Dumb. Of all the LDS prophets, 44% of them have had beards. 19% of all LDS prophets have had "Duck Dynasty" beards. See the image below. If you are LDS and lay claim to all ancient prophets as well, those percentages skyrocket.

prophets21.jpg

When did this aversion to facial hair begin? why? For the record I have never seen my father without a mustache. He shaved his beard (not his mustache) a 5-year period prior to 2004 while he was a bishop. Upon his release he immediately grew his beard back. Beards are great for hiding jowls and for looking marvelous, so I have to imagine that among the Q12 and first presidency there have to be some closeted beardos, wishing they could come out. Some day I hope that revelation is received.

[concerned]

I had one for 25 years. In 2004 it went away. My kids had never seen me without it. Neither had my wife. I'll find a photo somewhere.

My partner had a beard for 30 years too. Same as you for his kids and probably his wife. He was called as a bishop. Nobody said a thing . . . for about a month. Then his stake president "suggested" that he might want consider shaving it. He did, before he told his wife. She went through the roof when she saw him (and eventually recognized him), and wanted to give the SP a piece of her mind. She was dissuaded gently. He was released after 5 years a couple of months ago, and grew it back immediately. Its grayer than it was; everybody tells him he looks just like the most interesting man in the world. All is harmony in his household.

[LA Ute]

Did it go away in response to your call into the bishopric? It's always fun to show up on new bishop day to see someone without facial hair for the first time in forever.

No, I had been in the bishopric and on the high council with it. When I gave it up I had just been released from the HC and put back in a bishopric, and I finally got sick of all the hints from my SP and just took it off. The temple baptisms incident influenced me too. I figured, "If it means that much to them, then fine, I'll lose it for a while." My family freaked out, my wife especially. I may grow it back someday. My theory is that once all GAs who were alive in the 60s die, the preoccupation with facial hair will go away.

[Scratch]

I had one for 25 years. I'll find a photo somewhere.

[concerned]

You will shave yours at the appropriate time, I presume. You don't strike me as a radical.

[LA Ute]

Then again, maybe not.

[Solon]

I had one for 25 years. In 2004 it went away. My kids had never seen me without it. Neither had my wife. I'll find a photo somewhere.

I got you covered.
LA Ute's picture from his High School Yearbook.

[Senioritis]

I had one for 25 years. In 2004 it went away. My kids had never seen me without it. Neither had my wife. I'll find a photo somewhere.

LA Ute in 2003.

259572-883486-317-238.jpg

[LA Ute]

LA Ute in 2003.

259572-883486-317-238.jpg

That was before my hair transplant procedure. (We moved the 'stache to my forehead.)

I got you covered.
LA Ute's picture from his High School Yearbook.

That's actually my younger brother. <fail>

For me, a more interesting statement would not have focused on the priesthood ban's origins, but rather why it took until 1978 to correct the error.

I think that is the most interesting question about this entire subject. I wonder if we'll ever really know with any decent level of certainty. I wonder if it's even possible to know. I am pretty confident my own guess is right. But I'll reserve judgment until that great day when we all attend a celestial fireside titled "All the Mysteries and Secrets You Ever Wondered About -- Explained!"

[Solon]

Here's another LA Ute classic portrait, although this is from his Brooklyn Dodger days.

If you ever want a way to kill a couple of hours, the Library of Congress Digital Archive is where to go.

Here's the main page: http://www.loc.gov/pictures/
Here are the civil war portraits: http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/lilj/ The faces haunt me since they're all, 100% dead. We all have it coming.

And here's my favorite: the Baseball Card page: http://www.loc.gov/pictures/search/?st=grid&co=bbc

I love the LoC. Sometimes our government gets it right.

[Sullyute]

I may grow it back someday. My theory is that once all GAs who were alive in the 60s die, the preoccupation with facial hair will go away.

Is there a current GA that was not alive in the 60's?! You may be waiting a long time for revelation to come.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[LA Ute]

Is there a current GA that was not alive in the 60's?! You may be waiting a long time for revelation to come.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Afraid so. In their eyes, long hair and facial hair became symbols of rebellion in the 60s. The 70s too, when you think about it. It will be a long time before that fades away.

[scottie]

... to get out in front of these issues.

:spittake:

[Jeff Lebowski]

Probably a reaction to the Cold War and possible nuclear Armageddon. I recall reading somehere (The Economist?) some pretty wild misperceptions about what food storage is all about.

What is it all about? I have always wondered.

[LA Ute]

What is it all about? I have always wondered.

Looks like you are about to burst into song, or maybe into a poem. An admirable impulse in an engineer.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Why is this in the beard thread? Go start a religion thread if you want to talk about this kind of stuff.

This IS about religion. The church owns BYU, and it was Ernie Wilkinson who as pres of byu established the short haircut/no facial hair aesthetic as a response to the hippies of the 60s. It just kind of stuck, and elevated itself into the upper echelons of the church leadership.

Now the inertial doctrine of Stare Decisis keeps it going.

[LA Ute]

This IS about religion. The church owns BYU, and it was Ernie Wilkinson who as pres of byu established the short haircut/no facial hair aesthetic as a response to the hippies of the 60s. It just kind of stuck, and elevated itself into the upper echelons of the church leadership.

Now the inertial doctrine of Stare Decisis keeps it going.

I remember reading a Wilkinson speech at BYU about increased effeminacy was a sign of a civilization's imminent fall, and that longer male hair thus must not be permitted.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Ernest Wilkinson also established the Honor Code, and its enforcement arm the HCO. He is to blame for BYU enforcing Lucifer's pre-existencial plan at the Lord's university.

[LA Ute]

Ernest Wilkinson also established the Honor Code, and its enforcement arm the HCO. He is to blame for BYU enforcing Lucifer's pre-existencial plan at the Lord's university.

An old joke: Required reading at BYU included "Free Agency and How to Enforce It," by Ernest L. Wilkinson.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Looks like you are about to burst into song, or maybe into a poem. An admirable impulse in an engineer.

Totally serious question. Food storage always seemed kind of bizarre to me. And now we haven't really renounced it and some people still do it, but it gets almost zero discussion or emphasis. I have heard a variety of theories over the years on why we do it, but I am not sure any of them were more than speculation. So when you say that the mag had it off, I am wondering what you see as the real motivation for it.

[LA Ute]

I was responding to Solon's list of controversial topics the church might officially address, and expressing some mild skepticism as to whether food storage would be one of them. It just doesn't strike me as a big deal. But I allowed as how there might be some misperceptions out there -- some writers in high-end publications refer to it as "food hoarding," which in American usage probably doesn't convey the real spirit of the practice, IMO. (In the U.K., I'm told, "hoard" has a more neutral connotation.) Still, I don't see that as a big enough problem to require an official statement. I don't know.

[Solon]

Totally serious question. Food storage always seemed kind of bizarre to me. And now we haven't really renounced it and some people still do it, but it gets almost zero discussion or emphasis. I have heard a variety of theories over the years on why we do it, but I am not sure any of them were more than speculation. So when you say that the mag had it off, I am wondering what you see as the real motivation for it.

It's a legit question. I can understand the idea of preparing for a doomsday scenario where people would need large quantities of stockpiled materials.

But the idea of stockpiling more than a week or two's worth of food & water & supplies is silly. In the event of a lost job or financial difficulty, you're better off with a savings account than 30 bushels of cheap wheat. (I also think it's funny that so many people stockpile wheat but no grinder, and no provision for electricity to run the grinder)

I found nothing in The Economist's archives on LDS food storage.

The lds.org page on food storage seems to echo the "store just a little bit in case of natural disasters" line of thought rather than the 1-year's supply of food, water, diapers, and ammo.

http://www.lds.org/topics/food-storage

I think LDS beliefs on the Millenium deserve some scrutiny like the other issues. I just chose "Food Storage" as the manifestation of a belief, since widely de-emphasized, in an imminent end of the world.

[LA Ute]

It's a legit question. I can understand the idea of preparing for a doomsday scenario where people would need large quantities of stockpiled materials.

But the idea of stockpiling more than a week or two's worth of food & water & supplies is silly. In the event of a lost job or financial difficulty, you're better off with a savings account than 30 bushels of cheap wheat. (I also think it's funny that so many people stockpile wheat but no grinder, and no provision for electricity to run the grinder)

I found nothing in The Economist's archives on LDS food storage.

The lds.org page on food storage seems to echo the "store just a little bit in case of natural disasters" line of thought rather than the 1-year's supply of food, water, diapers, and ammo.

http://www.lds.org/topics/food-storage

I think LDS beliefs on the Millenium deserve some scrutiny like the other issues. I just chose "Food Storage" as the manifestation of a belief, since widely de-emphasized, in an imminent end of the world.

FWIW, my earliest recollections seem Cold War-oriented, but during my teenage years (about 1970 forward) the emphasis seemed to be "You'll need this, we don't know why." That prompted tons of speculation. During my adult years it has seemed to be, "It's just good to be prepared for whatever may happen in an uncertain world, what with economic collapses, natural disasters, etc." But that's just how I've seen it. You can have access to my giant boxes of Bisquick any time, Solon. (We are pretty much prepared only for a natural disaster, not a year of famine. That really did make life easier just after the 1994 earthquake.)

[Solon]

FWIW, my earliest recollections seem Cold War-oriented, but during my teenage years (about 1970 forward) the emphasis seemed to be "You'll need this, we don't know why." That prompted tons of speculation. During my adult years it has seemed to be, "It's just good to be prepared for whatever may happen in an uncertain world, what with economic collapses, natural disasters, etc." But that's just how I've seen it. You can have access to my giant boxes of Bisquick any time, Solon.

Thanks, LA.
In 2006 I was trapped for 3 daysin the Outer Banks of NC without electricity or any way to get off the island after a Nor'easter wrecked the road.
Ever since, I've been a big believer in having enough food for a few days and especially water to drink, and cash (stores opened on generators, but nobody could use a credit card or an ATM). But I don't really believe in storing enough to survive for years, although I've got a lot of venison jerky in the freezer.

[scottie]

What about the hitchhiker/one-of-3-Nephites-guy?

[Jeff Lebowski]

It's a legit question. I can understand the idea of preparing for a doomsday scenario where people would need large quantities of stockpiled materials.

But the idea of stockpiling more than a week or two's worth of food & water & supplies is silly. In the event of a lost job or financial difficulty, you're better off with a savings account than 30 bushels of cheap wheat. (I also think it's funny that so many people stockpile wheat but no grinder, and no provision for electricity to run the grinder)

I found nothing in The Economist's archives on LDS food storage.

The lds.org page on food storage seems to echo the "store just a little bit in case of natural disasters" line of thought rather than the 1-year's supply of food, water, diapers, and ammo.

http://www.lds.org/topics/food-storage

I think LDS beliefs on the Millenium deserve some scrutiny like the other issues. I just chose "Food Storage" as the manifestation of a belief, since widely de-emphasized, in an imminent end of the world.

I think 72-hr kits are a great idea. But if we ever get to a point where we legitimately need to live on a 2-yr supply, then God help us because it is the apocalypse and 99% of us are going to die when the food and the bullets run out.

Some people claim that it is for financial hard times, but it seems like the Bishop Storehouse (a program I really love) fills that need. In the end I think it was an odd Cold War artifact.

[Jeff Lebowski]

An old joke: Required reading at BYU included "Free Agency and How to Enforce It," by Ernest L. Wilkinson.

A system that is 100% supported by the current First Presidency and Q12. But I agree that it is less awkward and more fun to blame it on Ernie Wilk and make fun of him.

[LA Ute]

A system that is 100% supported by the current First Presidency and Q12. But I agree that it is less awkward and more fun to blame it on Ernie Wilk and make fun of him.

I think Wilkinson was more inclined to enforce free agency than the current FP and Q12 are. His many idiosyncrasies made him easy to make fun of. I interviewed him once for an hour when he was BYU President Emeritus and found him to be a powerful and charismatic personality.

[hostile]

I think 72-hr kits are a great idea. But if we ever get to a point where we legitimately need to live on a 2-yr supply, then God help us because it is the apocalypse and 99% of us are going to die when the food and the bullets run out.

Some people claim that it is for financial hard times, but it seems like the Bishop Storehouse (a program I really love) fills that need. In the end I think it was an odd Cold War artifact.

We had our regular "Emergency Preparedness/Food Storage" 5th Sunday lesson a while back. After the instructor (our former bishop who has an incredible arsenal of survival gear/weapons ) finished one of my wife's friends said, "What if I don't want to survive; If we're going to die I'd rather get it over quickly"

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think Wilkinson was more inclined to enforce free agency than the current FP and Q12 are.

Not that much difference. Don't kid yourself.

His many idiosyncrasies made him easy to make fun of. I interviewed him once for an hour when he was BYU President Emeritus and found him to be a powerful and charismatic personality.

He is an enigma. He did some really nutty things but he was also responsible for massive growth of the campus in terms of new building, additional faculty, etc.