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Thread: I learned in Church today

  1. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    If just a few people have a 1 year supply, they should be able to help entire neighborhoods for a short time after a disaster.
    Good point.

    In general I'm not on board. I'm all for a couple weeks worth of food, and some cash. If things get apocalyptic, I don't think I would want to live anymore. So I guess I should add a few bullets to my food stash.

    I remember doing nuclear bomb exercises in first grade (in the 70s). I remember a booklet on how to survive a blast, and how to build and live in a fallout shelter. I remember walking to school one day and they tested the emergency sirens. It terrified me because I thought there was going to be a nuclear war. Red Dawn seemed like a documentary. I remember seeing a documentary on PBS about the arms race and what the Soviet stockpile could do to us. I had a hard time going to sleep for several days after that.
    A few years ago I asked my dad about what it was like during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Everyone was legitimately scared, and waiting to hear that bombs were falling.

    You youngsters don't know what fear is.

  2. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    Good point.

    In general I'm not on board. I'm all for a couple weeks worth of food, and some cash. If things get apocalyptic, I don't think I would want to live anymore. So I guess I should add a few bullets to my food stash.

    I remember doing nuclear bomb exercises in first grade (in the 70s). I remember a booklet on how to survive a blast, and how to build and live in a fallout shelter. I remember walking to school one day and they tested the emergency sirens. It terrified me because I thought there was going to be a nuclear war. Red Dawn seemed like a documentary. I remember seeing a documentary on PBS about the arms race and what the Soviet stockpile could do to us. I had a hard time going to sleep for several days after that.
    A few years ago I asked my dad about what it was like during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Everyone was legitimately scared, and waiting to hear that bombs were falling.

    You youngsters don't know what fear is.
    Here is a handy tipsheet about where your local ward's facial hair restrictions came from:

    1. If your bishop/stake president outlaws/frowns on all facial hair on leaders, he is probably taking a cue from the church leaders who, since the 60s, are all clean-shaven.
    2. If your bishop/stake president outlaws/frowns on beards BUT ALLOWS MOUSTACHES, he is a graduate of BYU and was probably a member of the secret Honor Code Danites.

    The beards-are-of-the-devil-but-moustaches-come-from-God logic is so twisted that it could only come from BYU's honor code (or Magnum P.I.)

  3. #393
    And in a reassuring turn of events, we now have one more person who can hold higher office in the church or take tests at BYU:


  4. #394
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    And in a reassuring turn of events, we now have one more person who can hold higher office in the church or take tests at BYU:

    Still needs a haircut.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  5. #395
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Apropos of our food storage discussion, I happened to see this. It kind of screams "OCD!!" but these are more practical suggestions than having a year's supply of wheat.

    http://thesurvivalmom.com/2013/11/29...are-emergency/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #396
    Everybody knows the essential thing you need for an emergency is a towel.

    About a year ago the stake gave us a sheet of paper with information on things to do for prepare for an emergency and they wanted us to deliver it to everyone in the neighborhood. In the top 5 of things needed for an emergency was guns & ammo and gold coins which raised my eyebrows.

    A few years back in our old place a guy came through whose focus was basically getting people through the first five days of a disaster. Super practical stuff and a lot of it you would never think of. Like get a flashlight with a flat bottom so you can stand it up, or lighters are better than matches because you can reuse them and drop them in water, or the best flashlight you can have is one of those LED keychain lights because it is with you, or include a picture of your family in your 72 hour kit, cash and a sharpie. Or 2-liter bottles are better for water storage than a 50 gallon drum because they are portable, you can store them in different places and if one gets smashed you've got lots of others.

    Just a lot of level-headed good stuff.

    So I suggested that I could get that list of suggestions and maybe we give it as kind of a stage one and the sheet we were given as a 'so you are super prepared? Well here is a stage 2 zombie apocalypse plan...' sort of a deal as I really didn't want my first conversation with a neighbor to be about the gold standard.

    I was told that I was to hand out the sheet as is with no additions or alterations. I think they are still sitting in the trunk of my car.

  7. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I was told that I was to hand out the sheet as is with no additions or alterations. I think they are still sitting in the trunk of my car.
    I'll see you in hell. Between this failure to sustain your presumably clean-shaven superiors, your semi-long sideburns, and your failure to shave last Saturday I am hereby officially making your calling and election to the telestial kingdom made sure.

  8. #398
    Sweet. Everybody know that ALL of the best parties will happen in the Telestial Kingdom!

  9. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    I'll see you in hell. Between this failure to sustain your presumably clean-shaven superiors, your semi-long sideburns, and your failure to shave last Saturday I am hereby officially making your calling and election to the telestial kingdom made sure.
    That took a lot longer than I expected.

  10. #400
    So I actually read from the "Race and the Priesthood" essay in sunday school yesterday. There was no comment, except from the teacher who said thanks for reading that. After class I did have a gentleman ask where I gotten that statement. I gave him the copy that I read from and we talked about it as we walked out of class. He said that he had always had some questions on the issue and was glad to see a little more clarity on it.

  11. #401
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    It is a bit unfortunate because some men look much better with facial hair. For those that have facial scars, severe acne or skin issues nicely groomed facial hair can be an improvement. I suspect Neal A. Maxwell might have looked much more handsome sporting a beard.

    And I would hope that a card carrying LDS Member thats using his beard to hide some Rosatia wouldn't be denied to work in the temple of hold other callings, but I wouldn't be surprised, it seems like we still hold onto some cult like behavior.

  12. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    It is a bit unfortunate because some men look much better with facial hair. For those that have facial scars, severe acne or skin issues nicely groomed facial hair can be an improvement. I suspect Neal A. Maxwell might have looked much more handsome sporting a beard.

    And I would hope that a card carrying LDS Member thats using his beard to hide some Rosatia wouldn't be denied to work in the temple of hold other callings, but I wouldn't be surprised, it seems like we still hold onto some cult like behavior.
    In the business world you are less likely to see executives with facial hair. There are some out there (Men's Warehouse CEO, Oracle CEO) but they are definitely in the small minority. Same goes for news anchors, college and professional sports coaches, government leaders, etc. The majority of "leaders" tend to be beardless, so I don't think it is that odd that church leaders are expected to be clean shaven. However, I do think that some church leaders take it to extremes, but that is the price of moving up the ecclesiastical ladder.

  13. #403
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    With the new addition of LDS Beliefs explained just out.

    http://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-and-families-in-early-utah?lang=eng&query=polygamy

    After the Manifesto, monogamy was advocated in the Church both over the pulpit and through the press. On an exceptional basis, some new plural marriages were performed between 1890 and 1904, especially in Mexico and Canada, outside the jurisdiction of U.S. law; a small number of plural marriages were performed within the United States during those years.
    I suspect if the US Govt. didn’t come down so hard on Polygamy back in the late 1800’s, LDS Members might be still practicing it today?

  14. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    With the new addition of LDS Beliefs explained just out.

    http://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-and-families-in-early-utah?lang=eng&query=polygamy




    I suspect if the US Govt. didn’t come down so hard on Polygamy back in the late 1800’s, LDS Members might be still practicing it today?
    as one of the topics that could be subject of future doctrinal clarification, what about the relationship between terrestrial monogamy and celestial polygamy? some if not many men are sealed to more than one wife.

  15. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    With the new addition of LDS Beliefs explained just out.

    http://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-and-families-in-early-utah?lang=eng&query=polygamy



    I suspect if the US Govt. didn’t come down so hard on Polygamy back in the late 1800’s, LDS Members might be still practicing it today?
    I think the societal pressure to change would be too great for the church or individuals to endure this long. Just look at how ostercized and disdained the FLDS are today. There is no way the church has the growth that it has over the last 50 years if we were still polygs.

    But if we did still practice plural marriage, I could see general conference talks chiding men in their 20's putting off marriage, and chiding men in their 30's putting off their second marriage.

  16. #406
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    as one of the topics that could be subject of future doctrinal clarification, what about the relationship between terrestrial monogamy and celestial polygamy? some if not many men are sealed to more than one wife.
    Here's my view of that, which many see as a cop-out but which to me is the only honest answer: That can't be clarified because we don't know enough. Hardly anything has been revealed (using that term in the believer sense) about what exactly marital relationships will be like in the eternities. There's plenty of speculation and probably eyebrow-raising statements by various GAs at various times, but nothing that could reliably called church doctrine.

    I expect to be verbally pummeled for the above paragraph.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  17. #407
    We have some extraordinary musical talent in the ward. Our Christmas program today was a mix of Spoken Word (mostly Luke 2), with various songs by the Primary children, audience participation in Christmas hyms, etc.

    But the standouts were a beautiful violin performance, a lovely vocal solo by a talented friend who is active in local musical theater, a fun mix of Christmas carols by the Ward choir.

    But the song that stood out the most was one of the most passionate, moving, and powerful performances I have ever witnessed. A sister performed on the harp and sang what IMHO is the greatest Christmas song of all, "What Child Is This?". She sang with the voice of an angel.

    As always the uncomfortable silence after such a performance is unsettling. A few random children clapped, because in their sweet innocence they realize how we should show appreciation. But these performances each deserved a standing ovation. Or at a minimum a polite round of applause. That has always bothered me in sacrament meetings.

    As an aside, the power of these performances were not sufficient to tear away from their ipads/blackberries the Bishop, the 1st and 2nd counselors, the stake president, and visiting High Councillor (all seated on the stand). I felt like shouting as did Russell Crowe in Gladiator, "Were you not entertained??!"


  18. #408
    The Sunday School and Priesthood lessons were business as usual and did not disappoint. SS was "Building Zion Society on earth" with plenty of 'Joseph Smith was a great guy' and 'tye world is getting worse every day therefore Jesus us coming, so keep doing your church assignments'. It felt too similar to a work meeting. As I said, business as usual.

    Priesthood lesson was the Thomas Monson lesson about him starting a forest fire when he was 7. The first law of the Gospel is 'Strict Obedience', and the second law is 'pay your tithing'.

    Is it too much to ask that we talk strictly about Jesus during church on the weeks of Christmas and Easter? Does this bother anybody else? Can we still claim that we are 'Christian', when we can't even recognize that every other Christian church in the world actually spoke exclusively about Jesus today? How can we sit, with straight faces, and claim to have a greater degree of light and knowledge with respect to 'true Christianity', when we never seem to directly discuss the teachings of Jesus?

    I don't know why I expected anything different.

  19. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post

    ... Seems like Christmas is one holiday that is nearly impossible to screw up.
    I disagree. See my second post. Sac mtg was lovely and uplifting, but the other meetings were not. Christmas and Easter church meetings should break away from the standard correlated pap, and refrain from talking about anybody else but the Saviour. Preach some love, tolerance, forgiveness, etc. Put a smile on everybody's face and have them leave enjoying a better mood.

  20. #410
    So, this leads me to a question I've always had.

    Why doesn't the LDS church have Christmas Eve or Christmas Day services? Special Easter services? Or do things with Ash Wednesday, Maundy Thursday etc.

  21. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Probably because we have enough meetings already.

    I think Northwest is in the minority in thinking that something is broken there. Mormons pretty much love all aspects of Christmas. The Church does a great job with the holiday - one of the best light displays in the world is at temple square, there is a First Presidency Christmas devotional, and the MoTab concerts sell out online like U2 concerts in the 90s. The December Ensign is always a Christmas edition. I left church yesterday full of the Christmas spirit, and I don't think I'm an exception. I love Christmas talks and music, so I don't mind when lesson planners go rogue from the set curriculum to do a holiday lesson. But I don't see it as an affront to Christianity if I have a lesson on the word of wisdom in December.
    I have a hard time equating a Christmas Eve service to a "meeting" (I'm guessing you were joking about the reason...at least I hope so)

    Silent night being sung in candlelight at midnight is a pretty cool thing...and definitely not a meeting.

  22. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    So, this leads me to a question I've always had.

    Why doesn't the LDS church have Christmas Eve or Christmas Day services? Special Easter services? Or do things with Ash Wednesday, Maundy Thursday etc.

    Matt 15:8-9 seems to apply.

    8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
    9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

  23. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    The Sunday School and Priesthood lessons were business as usual and did not disappoint. SS was "Building Zion Society on earth" with plenty of 'Joseph Smith was a great guy' and 'tye world is getting worse every day therefore Jesus us coming, so keep doing your church assignments'. It felt too similar to a work meeting. As I said, business as usual.

    Priesthood lesson was the Thomas Monson lesson about him starting a forest fire when he was 7. The first law of the Gospel is 'Strict Obedience', and the second law is 'pay your tithing'.

    Is it too much to ask that we talk strictly about Jesus during church on the weeks of Christmas and Easter? Does this bother anybody else? Can we still claim that we are 'Christian', when we can't even recognize that every other Christian church in the world actually spoke exclusively about Jesus today? How can we sit, with straight faces, and claim to have a greater degree of light and knowledge with respect to 'true Christianity', when we never seem to directly discuss the teachings of Jesus?

    I don't know why I expected anything different.
    If it makes you feel any better, my primary lesson was the "Christmas lesson". Which brings me to what I learned in church yesterday--spending two hours with FIFTEEN hyper five year olds three days before Christmas (especially after the super helpful primary presidency has given them all a treat on the way into class) is NOT the way to increase one's feeling of Christmas spirit.

    On the topic of Christmas meetings, my memory from my childhood was that the Sunday before Christmas was always just sacrament meeting (even if it wasn't Christmas Eve or Christmas Day). This changed probably sometime in the late 80s/early 90s. Was this a church-wide thing or just something my rogue ward/stake did?

  24. #414
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UBlender View Post
    If it makes you feel any better, my primary lesson was the "Christmas lesson". Which brings me to what I learned in church yesterday--spending two hours with FIFTEEN hyper five year olds three days before Christmas (especially after the super helpful primary presidency has given them all a treat on the way into class) is NOT the way to increase one's feeling of Christmas spirit.

    On the topic of Christmas meetings, my memory from my childhood was that the Sunday before Christmas was always just sacrament meeting (even if it wasn't Christmas Eve or Christmas Day). This changed probably sometime in the late 80s/early 90s. Was this a church-wide thing or just something my rogue ward/stake did?
    i think you had a rogue ward/stake. We've gotten away with that on a "seek forgiveness rather than permission" basis. It depends on whether the SP wants to make an issue of such things. Our last one did; the current one doesn't. Still, yesterday we had a full block. Every class in every organization was a Christmas-related class, with stories and treats and presents. We didn't count the money after the block -- just went home to be with our families. Just as it should be, IMO.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 12-23-2013 at 09:17 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    I have a hard time equating a Christmas Eve service to a "meeting" (I'm guessing you were joking about the reason...at least I hope so)

    Silent night being sung in candlelight at midnight is a pretty cool thing...and definitely not a meeting.
    My thought is that the church wants to allow families to do what they want, or create their own traditions on Christmas Eve. To a degree, Sancho is right, the LDS church does require a lot of time from its faithful members both on Sundays and during the week. I don't think they would want to create another event that many members would feel obligated to support that might interfere with family time/traditions.

    Matt 15:8-9 seems to apply.
    Geez, NWUF. You either have the crappiest leadership in the church, or you are one cynical dude.
    Last edited by chrisrenrut; 12-23-2013 at 01:46 PM.

  26. #416
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    having been to midnight mass a couple of times, there is something very spiritual/magical about Christmas Eve. For me there is an enhanced sense of peace on that night. I love that feeling, its one of the best parts of the Christmas Season.

  27. #417
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    having been to midnight mass a couple of times, there is something very spiritual/magical about Christmas Eve. For me there is an enhanced sense of peace on that night. I love that feeling, its one of the best parts of the Christmas Season.
    I envy that Christmas tradition in other faiths. (In the "holy envy" sense, of course!)

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  28. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post

    Is it too much to ask that we talk strictly about Jesus during church on the weeks of Christmas and Easter? Does this bother anybody else?
    Yes.

  29. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    I have a hard time equating a Christmas Eve service to a "meeting" (I'm guessing you were joking about the reason...at least I hope so)

    Silent night being sung in candlelight at midnight is a pretty cool thing...and definitely not a meeting.
    My former stake did a Christmas Eve sing-a-long/devotional thing that was nice.

    I don't have any specifics as to why the LDS church doesn't have formal services those days but it is probably rooted in the fact local congregations are run by lay ministry and having no specific services allow them to spend time with families.

    Personally we spend that time with family and friends. We read and discuss the story of Christ's birth, we listen to music, have the kids reenact the nativity, do service and enjoy each other's company.

    Spiritually our family event far surpasses any mass or service I've ever attended. I'd despise anything that would cut into that time. Best part of the year.

  30. #420
    Our Christmas program featured a french horn! Totally against the rules, but also totally righteous.

    Does anyone have statistics on the per capita french horn & harp playing rates of various religions? I'm sure mormons dominate.

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