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Thread: I learned in Church today

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This letter was read in our ward today:

    In a training session, our stake president added some guidance: "Brief" in this context means 3-5 minutes. Also, regarding children's testimonies, "old enough" means the child is able to come up to the stand by himself/herself, if a pass-around microphone is not being used. No "duets" with parents holding the child or standing by, whispering in the child's ear. Our bishop read the letter, then added the SP's guidance. I loved the whole thing. I guess this has become a problem in the Wasatch Front wards? That's usually what prompts letters like these. But I welcome the help even out here in the hinterland.
    I am all for cutting back on testimonies whispered into little kids' ears. That is borderline creepy.

    They had a letter just like this a few years ago. It made a difference for a few months and then people went right back to old habits.

  2. #32
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I don't recall the earlier letter but it doesn't surprise me. Some things never change, I guess, but if they get better for a while I'll take that. The goofy testimony meeting habits are annoying but kind of lovable. If it got to the point in our ward that people who wanted to speak couldn't, though, we'd do something about it.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I am all for cutting back on testimonies whispered into little kids' ears. That is borderline creepy.

    They had a letter just like this a few years ago. It made a difference for a few months and then people went right back to old habits.
    So years ago my nearly 90 year old grandfather decided to go out in a flame of glory. Apparently he got up in his ward of 50 years and went on a rant that reportedly included a chiding of parents "who get up during testimony meeting and whisper in their children's ears like they were the Holy Ghost." I believe that was some of the nicer things he said.

    My dad got a call from an old friend who told him about the whole thing. A few weeks later he had a stroke and went to a care facility to live out the rest of his years. I've always thought that saying was awesome (despite losing his filter in his older years he really was a very remarkable and accomplished man), and think of it each time I see it. He was right.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I don't recall the earlier letter but it doesn't surprise me. Some things never change, I guess, but if they get better for a while I'll take that. The goofy testimony meeting habits are annoying but kind of lovable. If it got to the point in our ward that people who wanted to speak couldn't, though, we'd do something about it.
    I've wondered if this is more of a younger demographic ward problem. My ward which is a mixed demographic and almost never has that happen. We went to my BIL's ward in Lehi and another BIL in West Jordan and they had a line of people with their children all waiting to do it. It took up 75% of the meeting and was massively irritating.

  5. #35
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I've wondered if this is more of a younger demographic ward problem. My ward which is a mixed demographic and almost never has that happen. We went to my BIL's ward in Lehi and another BIL in West Jordan and they had a line of people with their children all waiting to do it. It took up 75% of the meeting and was massively irritating.
    That explains a lot, I think, if it's happening widely.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #36
    Educating Cyrus wuapinmon's Avatar
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    What's sad is that I can do this:

    Na NA na na na nanaNAna. na na na na na NAAAAA. Na na Na na NANA NA! Na na.

    And you all know what it sounds like.
    "This culture doesn't sell modesty. It sells "I am more modest than you" modesty." -- Two Utes

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This letter was read in our ward today:

    Attachment 382

    In a training session, our stake president added some guidance: "Brief" in this context means 3-5 minutes. Also, regarding children's testimonies, "old enough" means the child is able to come up to the stand by himself/herself, if a pass-around microphone is not being used. No "duets" with parents holding the child or standing by, whispering in the child's ear. Our bishop read the letter, then added the SP's guidance. I loved the whole thing. I guess this has become a problem in the Wasatch Front wards? That's usually what prompts letters like these. But I welcome the help even out here in the hinterland.
    I have never experienced this fast and testimony phenomenon. There has always been ample time for the same 10 -15 people to share their feelings. And there is usually plenty of silence between testimonies.

    In fact I have always found it amusing to listen to the heavy breathing of a 3 year old as he puts his mouth on the microphone and waits for his mom to tell him what to say. I don't find it any less uplifting than listening to 15 minutes of someone testifying about indexing.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    That explains a lot, I think, if it's happening widely.
    My ward is younger, but I haven't seen that happen here in a few years now.

  9. #39
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pheidippides View Post
    My ward is younger, but I haven't seen that happen here in a few years now.
    I wonder where this is coming from?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Utah county?
    [nerd alert]

    In The Lord of the Rings, early on in the first book, the four hobbits are wandering through the Old Forest in an effort to avoid nasty riders. The Old Forest is itself a dangerous and odd place, and at one point the hobbits crest a hill in a open glade and survey the scenery.

    One hobbit points out a valley called the Withywindle and marks it as the very source of queerness, warning the others that they certainly don't want to go that way. Unfortunately they end up going that way anyway and nearly get killed by an old malicious tree.

    I think of the Withywindle valley often every time I reflect on my time at BYU and the UC.

    [/nerd alert] NerdSmiley.gif
    Last edited by LA Ute; 03-25-2013 at 10:48 AM.

  11. #41
    Living in the past ... FMCoug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Utah county?
    It doesn't happen in my ward. Of course we skew more middle aged than young so perhaps that is the reason as discussed above.

  12. #42
    I'm guessing it is probably common for many new communities springing up that attract young families. I'm sure Lehi and Saratoga Springs, Daybreak, and in Davis County Foxboro and West Farmington/Kaysville are all pretty similar.
    Dyslexics of the world, untie!

  13. #43
    They read a letter in our ward announcing a new edition of the scriptures.

  14. #44
    Sexy Cougar SoCalCoug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    I had no idea this thread existed! LOVE IT!

    On Sunday, I learned (again) that men are inferior to women and that men need to step up.

    Our sunday school teacher had her husband leave her and the kids many years ago. I am truly sorry she had to go through that. But give me a break! Every time she teaches Sunday School it turns into "you men need to really be better at............" whatever the topic of the day is, it ALWAYS turns into something she can use to further her anti-men agenda. Look, Im married, I have a small child, I am not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but you know what? I try. Just like 95% of LDS men. She is the best at derailing her own lessons with her agenda. Often, its just "you men think you are so cool because you have the priesthood!? Well you ARENT! God gave you that Priesthood because women already have things figured out!" ALWAYS talks in blanket statements like that with no caveats that "yeah some women are lousy and some men figure it out" nothing.

    Rant over, for now.
    You're not in Mission Viejo, are you? In a former ward, the gospel doctrine teacher was divorced, and I was always hearing how her ex-husband abandoned her, and what a jerk he was.

    I'm a divorce lawyer, and after I moved from that ward, I started working for the firm representing her ex-husband, and I got an entirely different perspective of her. She was bitter and vindictive and trying to avoid having to work. Plus, most of the stories about how her husband abandoned her and wouldn't support his kids turned out to just be not true. Her case went up on a couple of appeals, and the appellate court didn't seem to be particularly sympathetic to her, either.

  15. #45
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I learned that Easter Sunday can produce a great sacrament meeting if the right people are in charge and they put lots of talent and love and spirit into it.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  16. #46
    Message Board Vagabond UteBeliever aka Port's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I can't remember a time when Easter failed to produce a great sacrament meeting, though our choir for some reason I don't understand sang "For the Beauty of the Earth" instead of an Easter hymn.
    Today, ours was a bit odd but okay. They had to departing missionaries talk today. It was for both of them the "not a farewell" Sunday.

    They both spoke, at least briefly, on the Atonement.

    The only part of it I did not like was that both talks veered a bit into the realm of them talking about their preparations for their missions and the typical "farewell" stuff.

    The ward choir sang a couple of numbers. It was nice.

    But there was this odd kind of dynamic. Like you were pairing two things that didn't necessarily work out well together.

    But it was Easter. I don't understand why the Bishopric didn't do this last Sunday.

  17. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalCoug View Post
    You're not in Mission Viejo, are you? In a former ward, the gospel doctrine teacher was divorced, and I was always hearing how her ex-husband abandoned her, and what a jerk he was.

    I'm a divorce lawyer, and after I moved from that ward, I started working for the firm representing her ex-husband, and I got an entirely different perspective of her. She was bitter and vindictive and trying to avoid having to work. Plus, most of the stories about how her husband abandoned her and wouldn't support his kids turned out to just be not true. Her case went up on a couple of appeals, and the appellate court didn't seem to be particularly sympathetic to her, either.
    nope, here in good old utah. and yes, im sure her husband has an entirely different side to the story.

  18. #48
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    An interesting Patheos blog post on Greek Orthodox Easter traditions.

    Greek Easter or: How I Learned to Stop Whining and Love Traditions


    Growing up, we didn’t have many holiday traditions. The only thing we always did was go to both my dad’s parents’ house and then my mom’s parents’ house.... But the one thing we never had was a Grand Dinner. You know what I mean? The kind that is preceded by days of preparation and anticipation, where tablecloths are laid and candles are lit and traditional foods are served and if anything is forgotten or changed the whole family acts like catastrophe has struck? Yeah. That wasn’t my family.


    Then I married into that family, and holidays became a whole new experience....

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  19. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Yeah, funny. Easter and xmas are two holidays that are pretty hard to screw up. On the opposite end of the spectrum you have Mother's Day and the 4th of July, the two holiday sacrament meetings guaranteed to offend somebody in the congregation.
    Our stake decided to have fast Sunday today... that is one way to screw it up.

  20. #50
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Our stake decided to have fast Sunday today... that is one way to screw it up.
    We talked our SP into letting us do an Easter program today. It worked out well.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  21. #51
    So on the topic of sacrament meeting. I probably haven't been through an entire meeting since my son was born 2.5 years ago. The first year or so was probably just me finding excuses and whatnot to not attend (feeding him, etc.). Last year we had 1 o'clock church with sac meeting last, meaning it would take place from 2:45-4. With a toddler, I found this IMPOSSIBLE to attend. It was right during his nap time and if he doesn't get a nap, we all suffer.

    He is a very active kid, basically, he does not sit still...EVER. I've been told I was the exact same way when I was a child. My question is this, how do I deal with this? We've attempted many times this year to take him into the meeting room, it usually ends before the sacrament is served, with him screaming and snarky comments and looks from others in the ward. The last few weeks we've just sat outside the room on the couches and taken the sacrament there and let him run around. At some point he's either going to mellow out and be able to handle sitting still for an hour, we're going to stop trying to go to sacrament entirely, or I'm going to lose my mind.

    Please tell me some of you have gone through something similar. I realize the problem might be at least partially our fault for not getting him used to sacrament meeting from an early age. We've tried treats, Ipad, toys... They help but inevitably he tries to wander about the room and it makes us incredibly self-conscious to have others look at us like we have no idea what we're doing.

  22. #52
    I learned yesterday that Mosiah 15 is my very favorite chapter in the BoM. It was an answer to prayer and much pondering. It was evidence to me that God knows me.
    "The best way to obtain truth and wisdom is not to ask from books, but to go to God in prayer, and obtain divine teaching."
    Joseph Smith, Jr.



  23. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    We talked our SP into letting us do an Easter program today. It worked out well.
    LA, so why did you need the Stake President permission to do an Easter Program? Does the stake set the Fast & Testimony schedule for all of the wards? Was this just a nicety to ask permission first, or could you as the bishopric just changed it on your own based on what is best for your ward?

  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by utebehindenemylines View Post
    Please tell me some of you have gone through something similar. I realize the problem might be at least partially our fault for not getting him used to sacrament meeting from an early age. We've tried treats, Ipad, toys... They help but inevitably he tries to wander about the room and it makes us incredibly self-conscious to have others look at us like we have no idea what we're doing.
    We had something similar happen yesterday. Our ward was really empty so we decided to sit as close to the front as possible, which meant sitting by the older empty-nesters. My five year old kept putting her hands on the top of the pew in front of her and touching this older guy. Finally he turned around and removed her hands and gave us the nastiest look. So I guess we now know our place is back in the rear of the chapel with the other rowdy kids.

  25. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Every kid is different, so take this for what it's worth. We (read: my wife) built up our son's endurance for sitting still by doing a daily "circle time" at home with the kids. She basically did a little preschool lesson with him (and sometimes with his friends) every day. Picked cool weekly topics (trucks, space, etc) along with a weekly letter and number and then had him sit still to listen and to ask/answer questions. Doing it every day, she gradually ramped up the time from just a few minutes to 15 minutes. He got better at sitting and listening. The goal (aside from the obvious educational goal) was to get him to a point where he could make it through the sacrament before we take out the toys, stickers, books, crayons. Once there, we told him that he could play after the sacrament. It gave him something to look forward to. It's been useful for us to have many options in the church bag, since the attention span for any one activity won't even get you through the first speaker. Like being on an airplane with a kid - you just cycle through the options. We had some toys that he loved that we reserved only for Sundays. He looked forward to playing with them and would play with them for longer than with toys he had already been using all week at home.

    I'm sure that's not really a solution, but maybe there's something in there that will spark an idea of something to try. Don't give up - he will learn things from being there, even if it's just by osmosis while he's playing.

    So you guys are building up your kids' tolerance for dull activities?

  26. #56
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sullyute View Post
    LA, so why did you need the Stake President permission to do an Easter Program? Does the stake set the Fast & Testimony schedule for all of the wards? Was this just a nicety to ask permission first, or could you as the bishopric just changed it on your own based on what is best for your ward?
    I was just planning out sacrament meeting talk topics for the year (we do that in our ward) and noticed that the stake calendar had Easter Sunday as a fast Sunday. We wanted to have an Easter program (my wife is the ward music director and we like Easter programs) so I simply asked the stake exec. sec. if they had thought about that calendaring issue, and could we just do our fast and testimony meeting the week after General Conference? After asking a few questions the SP said "sure." It worked out well. Lots of people came who don't ordinarily attend church (you know what they say about Christmas and Easter) and lots of investigators came. It was a great, spiritual program. Just what we hoped for.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  27. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by utebehindenemylines View Post
    So on the topic of sacrament meeting. I probably haven't been through an entire meeting since my son was born 2.5 years ago. The first year or so was probably just me finding excuses and whatnot to not attend (feeding him, etc.). Last year we had 1 o'clock church with sac meeting last, meaning it would take place from 2:45-4. With a toddler, I found this IMPOSSIBLE to attend. It was right during his nap time and if he doesn't get a nap, we all suffer.

    He is a very active kid, basically, he does not sit still...EVER. I've been told I was the exact same way when I was a child. My question is this, how do I deal with this? We've attempted many times this year to take him into the meeting room, it usually ends before the sacrament is served, with him screaming and snarky comments and looks from others in the ward. The last few weeks we've just sat outside the room on the couches and taken the sacrament there and let him run around. At some point he's either going to mellow out and be able to handle sitting still for an hour, we're going to stop trying to go to sacrament entirely, or I'm going to lose my mind.

    Please tell me some of you have gone through something similar. I realize the problem might be at least partially our fault for not getting him used to sacrament meeting from an early age. We've tried treats, Ipad, toys... They help but inevitably he tries to wander about the room and it makes us incredibly self-conscious to have others look at us like we have no idea what we're doing.
    What parent has any idea what their doing? People who profess to know this should be met with the highest skepticism. Any person giving you dirty looks has either, 1. Not ever had a child, or 2. Suffers from age-induced memory loss and has forgotten how their children actually were.

    Aside from those handful of folks, don't misinterpret people's gazes as criticism, it is probably pity from having experienced it themselves.

    I have two uncommonly good kids, and one who is probably right smack dab on normal as far as behavior goes, but feels like a hurricane juxtaposed to the other two. Even with the two easy ones, we experienced fits in public places like church, parks, grocery stores. I remember with my first one, he threw a minor fit in the grocery store that embarrassed me incredibly. I pulled him out of the cart and left it full in the aisle and started to head for the doors. Some guy stopped me and said, "Dude, don't worry about it man, nobody who matters gives a f***." Good life lesson actually.

    The more active child, behavior-wise, is two and has taught herself how to belch loudly... like a man. She took the sacrament, swallowed air, let our a huge burp that was audible through the whole room and then said, "Ahh.... that was GOOD!" My other two kids collapsed on the ground in laughter, which of course reinforced the whole thing. I had one or two dirty looks, but I had a number of people after tell me that they wish something like that would happen every Sunday. I wish something like that would happen every Sunday with someone else's kids.

  28. #58
    Uniform Fashion Expert HuskyFreeNorthwest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utebehindenemylines View Post
    So on the topic of sacrament meeting. I probably haven't been through an entire meeting since my son was born 2.5 years ago. The first year or so was probably just me finding excuses and whatnot to not attend (feeding him, etc.). Last year we had 1 o'clock church with sac meeting last, meaning it would take place from 2:45-4. With a toddler, I found this IMPOSSIBLE to attend. It was right during his nap time and if he doesn't get a nap, we all suffer.

    He is a very active kid, basically, he does not sit still...EVER. I've been told I was the exact same way when I was a child. My question is this, how do I deal with this? We've attempted many times this year to take him into the meeting room, it usually ends before the sacrament is served, with him screaming and snarky comments and looks from others in the ward. The last few weeks we've just sat outside the room on the couches and taken the sacrament there and let him run around. At some point he's either going to mellow out and be able to handle sitting still for an hour, we're going to stop trying to go to sacrament entirely, or I'm going to lose my mind.

    Please tell me some of you have gone through something similar. I realize the problem might be at least partially our fault for not getting him used to sacrament meeting from an early age. We've tried treats, Ipad, toys... They help but inevitably he tries to wander about the room and it makes us incredibly self-conscious to have others look at us like we have no idea what we're doing.
    My life is basically the exact same, except I've got 2 loud and crazy babies under 3.. Good luck.

  29. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by HuskyFreeNorthwest View Post
    My life is basically the exact same, except I've got 2 loud and crazy babies under 3.. Good luck.
    Yup. That is us as well. Our baby is about to be 15 months old and is very vocal and active. I spent the better part of the third hour roaming the halls with him as well. Good luck.

  30. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by utebehindenemylines View Post
    So on the topic of sacrament meeting. I probably haven't been through an entire meeting since my son was born 2.5 years ago. The first year or so was probably just me finding excuses and whatnot to not attend (feeding him, etc.). Last year we had 1 o'clock church with sac meeting last, meaning it would take place from 2:45-4. With a toddler, I found this IMPOSSIBLE to attend. It was right during his nap time and if he doesn't get a nap, we all suffer.

    He is a very active kid, basically, he does not sit still...EVER. I've been told I was the exact same way when I was a child. My question is this, how do I deal with this? We've attempted many times this year to take him into the meeting room, it usually ends before the sacrament is served, with him screaming and snarky comments and looks from others in the ward. The last few weeks we've just sat outside the room on the couches and taken the sacrament there and let him run around. At some point he's either going to mellow out and be able to handle sitting still for an hour, we're going to stop trying to go to sacrament entirely, or I'm going to lose my mind.

    Please tell me some of you have gone through something similar. I realize the problem might be at least partially our fault for not getting him used to sacrament meeting from an early age. We've tried treats, Ipad, toys... They help but inevitably he tries to wander about the room and it makes us incredibly self-conscious to have others look at us like we have no idea what we're doing.
    I don't know that I have any great things to add other than what's already been said by others. I've got a 4 year old boy and a 1 year old girl. The boy went through that phase like every kid does; the girl is just getting to that point where she is fully mobile and wants to just wander off if she's bored.

    With my son, things that I found that helped were (like Sancho did) practicing sitting still at home, preparing beforehand by talking about what is going to happen ("remember, tomorrow/today is church and then...."), giving the kid a break from sitting once or twice during the meeting (just get up and take a lap around the hall, go to the bathroom, get a drink, etc and then come back and try again) and of course, snacks and activities (quiet toys, books, coloring, etc). Even with all of that, it never goes as well as you would hope but you get through. If your fellow ward members are being jerks about it then that is their problem and not yours. You do your best and others can deal with the results.

    I agree with you fully on 1:00 church meetings--absolutely awful (for just about everyone in my opinion, but especially for younger children). I have 1:00 church this year; I'm a slacker (and I realize this contradicts part of my previous paragraph to some extent) and my wife and I take turns taking our 1 year old home after sacrament meeting (which is first in our ward) because she simply can't handle missing her afternoon nap. We do that despite the fact that we are both in presidencies that would generally require us to be there for the third hour. We find that by staying through nap time we not only make our presence in church pointless (can't sit and listen for a minute) but we also ruin the rest of our Sunday and it even spills over into Monday before we can get our little girl back "on schedule". Not worth it for that hour of church (I feel differently about the necessity of sacrament meeting).

    I also have the added struggle of dealing with nonmember family and working around 1:00 church meetings. My wife's mother's side of her family is all non-LDS. Since the beginning of time they have gotten together at 1:00 on one Sunday a month to celebrate holidays and birthdays and stuff. It always becomes a fine line trying to prioritize our worship services but still let the family know that they are important to us and we care about them. It's a tough balancing act. Many of the family on that side have hard feelings toward the LDS church, which doesn't help. There's no point to all of this rambling except to say, I really would like to live in a world without 1:00 church block meetings.

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