Best Stake Conference ever. We are in the back since I refuse to show up an hour early for a two hour meeting. So we are watching on the projector screen. Anyway there is a kid in the primary choir playing paper rock scissors with his neighbor.
Best Stake Conference ever. We are in the back since I refuse to show up an hour early for a two hour meeting. So we are watching on the projector screen. Anyway there is a kid in the primary choir playing paper rock scissors with his neighbor.
LOL. In all seriousness, this is why I pay my tithing straight through the church and not through the ward.Originally Posted by UBlender
If only we had $2 billion laying around waiting to be used for local congregations...
Auditor_at_work.jpg
You need to stop seeing the world this way.
Last edited by LA Ute; 05-06-2013 at 02:52 PM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
We got the run down in EQ about the temple complex that will be built in Jackson County during the millennium.
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
So I hear the Moroni statue will be holding an American flag instead of a trumpet?
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
That would be awesome.
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
I thought people did that so that they could pay less and still get their temple recommend since nobody in the ward knows what you paid.
Anybody care to email MSN and explain the real reason there are so many retirees in Independence?
http://money.msn.com/retirement-plan...-retirees-rule
Damn Straight that is why we do it. I could tell you stories about being financial clerk...
"Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum
"And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla
Financial clerks are human beings and volunteers with no professional responsibility to keep confidences. That's why we do it! I could be wrong but I think the SP still knows how much members pay in donations. Anyone know?
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
He doesnt... From an email I received from the church:
The preferable method of payment to the church is still to your local unit. Please note all donations are made to the general funds of the church and nothing is reported back to the local unit.
"Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum
"And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla
No, he doesn't. It's the entire reason I pay directly to SLC.
Thanks. I got it!
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Someone posted a link for the direct to SLC pay on CUF but I couldn't find it. Can anyone help a brother out?
The link isnt up anymore. Apparently the church canceled the link.
I guess the church is saying why should we pay someone to process checks for us on North Temple when we get it for free everywhere else?Well, I just recently learned that either the Church never intended this for the general membership, or they changed their policy. Apparently too many Billpay checks were coming in as paper checks, rather than electronically, and it's overwhelmed the donations department, since they have to process all paper checks by hand, unlike when it's delivered electronically.
boardmail me your email and I will send you the forms
"Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum
"And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla
Please don't take the fun out of being paranoid.
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
Ballpark is fine... extrapolations from real $ is not. BTW... don't count on the church to make it easy to pay electronically anytime soon. They want you to pay to your local leaders for a variety of reasons.
"Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum
"And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla
This totally makes sense to me. Non-profit religious organizations should make it as difficult as they can to donate to them. I think they should make donors convert their money into Croatian kunas.
As for not wanting people to know what someone earns, my dad is retired and pays tithing on his interest income. He occasionally gets glib statements from a young whippersnapper about how his investments must be doing okay. That's annoying, sure, but what really gets him is the way he feels targeted to donate extra money to various causes (like Friends of Scouting) based on his regular donations.
σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
-- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.
It seems to me a total no-brainer to allow (even encourage) online donations. (That's how we donate.) I can see why they wouldn't want checks coming in to SLC. Solon, the kid who makes such comments to your dad is an idiot and should know better.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Sure if you're a school teacher or govt employee without any other form of income perhaps. What about a business executive, lawyer or salesperson? That's nonsense. There's base salary, bonuses, sales commissions, stock options, restricted stock, performance stock (and a half-dozen other types of stock incentives/awards) investment income, income from rental properties, inheritance, judgments and awards etc.... that, unless you live in Provo, you can generally keep reasonably private if you desire.
A number of years ago, a bishop sent a letter out to about 30 families in the ward (so the letter says), asking us to be generous in our fast offerings. Suggested amount was between $250-$300 per month. I can only surmise that the 30 that were picked was based on prior tithing donations. On the one hand, I appreciated the guidance. On the other hand, I felt like my privacy had been violated which caused me to alter the way I donate tithing to the church. By title and company someone may think they can ballpark income. In many cases, they'd be flat-out wrong.
“Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman
"You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb
"Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.
Here is why I pay directly to the church. A while back an ill-advised counselor in the Bishopric felt it necessary once in the middle of a bunch people to come up to me after a particularly good year to say, "Whoa, I had no idea you made that much money, you sure hide it well!" He meant it as a compliment, but it was extremely embarrassing to me (in that particular ward was a mix of people, a vast majority of whom were elderly people who lived in modest houses, worked extremely hard all of their lives but never had much and couldn't understand one bit why younger people viewed homes they had raised large families in were considered 'starter homes'), and he should have known better. It wasn't a typical year, and I've had plenty the other direction to offset it but the point is, it wasn't his, or anybody else's business what I made or don't make, nor to pronounce it to anyone else.
I don't want my peers to think of me as rich or poor or anything else related to that, particularly because a lot of Mormons view personal wealth as some sort of indicator of evidence of righteousness.
Recently another counselor mentioned to me how much another member of the ward donated (he didn't say a specific number, just said it was 'a lot, a lot more than you'd expect') which he also meant as a compliment, but I'm 100% sure the donor would prefer to keep that sort of stuff under wraps.
So yes, there are a lot of compelling reasons to pay directly to the church. BTW it is easy to do for those who asked how to do it:
http://tech.lds.org/wiki/Donations_t...h_Headquarters
Actually, since paying directly to HQ people assume means you are wealthy, what I do is pay a portion to the ward and the rest to HQ, so nobody has any idea either direction what I make. And no, I am not wealthy.
Last edited by Rocker Ute; 05-15-2013 at 10:54 AM.
This are the types of reasons that we donate online. We do pay fast offerings locally, as well as missionary donations. There are lots of good reasons to keep one's income level private.Here is why I pay directly to the church. A while back an ill-advised counselor in the Bishopric felt it necessary once in the middle of a bunch people to come up to me after a particularly good year to say, "Whoa, I had no idea you made that much money, you sure hide it well!" He meant it as a compliment, but it was extremely embarrassing to me (in that particular ward was a mix of people, a vast majority of whom were elderly people who lived in modest houses, worked extremely hard all of their lives but never had much and couldn't understand one bit why younger people viewed homes they had raised large families in were considered 'starter homes'), and he should have known better. It wasn't a typical year, and I've had plenty the other direction to offset it but the point is, it wasn't his, or anybody else's business what I made or don't make, nor to pronounce it to anyone else.
I don't want my peers to think of me as rich or poor or anything else related to that, particularly because a lot of Mormons view personal wealth as some sort of indicator of evidence of righteousness.
Recently another counselor mentioned to me how much another member of the ward donated (he didn't say a specific number, just said it was 'a lot, a lot more than you'd expect') which he also meant as a compliment, but I'm 100% sure the donor would prefer to keep that sort of stuff under wraps.
So yes, there are a lot of compelling reasons to pay directly to the church. BTW it is easy to do for those who asked how to do it:
http://tech.lds.org/wiki/Donations_t...h_Headquarters
Actually, since paying directly to HQ people assume means you are wealthy, what I do is pay a portion to the ward and the rest to HQ, so nobody has any idea either direction what I make. And no, I am not wealthy.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
The biggest problem with the way the church currently does things is that I or anyone else can't make a charitable donation without at least 3 other people seeing how much I donated and having a good indication on what my salary is. Keep in mind these people interact with me and my family a lot and our sometimes close neighbors. Sometimes they can be relatives.
I remember we received a large end of the year donation from guy who was working for one of the Autos overseas. He generally sent his donations by mail. Well he was in town for the end of the year for work and put his tithing from his bonus in. Both the bishop and 1st counselor worked in the auto business and were privy to how much his bonus was (very large) due to seeing his tithing. They were a buzz talking all afternoon about it. Those types of situations should be a big reason why we should be able to pay online
"Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum
"And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla
People shouldn't talk about it, but people do talk about it publicly or privately. The saying comes to mind of 'an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure.'
I'll also say that actually people typically have no idea what people make (I was a clerk once too). A guy leasing a Mercedes < a guy who bought a Camry outright, but everyone will think the Mercedes guy is richer. Not everyone wants to display their wealth.
I wish the LDS Church would push for more modern means of donation (i.e. online, autopay) not only for the reasons stated already, but mostly for the fact that I served as financial clerk for three years and, while I didn't mind the calling in itself, I HATED staying after church for anywhere from 1-3 hours every Sunday to process the donations.
Instead of the traditional punishments for those who sin the church should call those individuals as financial clerks in wards with a 1:00 (or later) block. Being at church until 7:00 with the Bishop on a Fast Sunday will scare anyone straight real quick. Fortunately when I had that calling for the year with the 1:00 meeting time, our first counselor was an old grump who wanted no part of staying that late so he would insist that we start during the 3rd hour (sometimes even the 2nd) so we could be sure to be done shortly after 4:00.
Of course, I am the guy who thinks one of the biggest things that isn't right with so many of the wards in the church right now is the burden for time-intensive service that is placed on too many of the individual members and families, such that parents are taken out of the home too often and for too long doing things that go beyond the basic purpose of the church. In other words, way too many meetings for the sake of meetings and, in this case, time spent manually processing donations when the technology exists to cut it down significantly.
I didn't learn this in church, but it is church related: mp and his family are in my stake.
"Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." - Red Smith
It's all a personality thing. When I was called to be the finance clerk, I had people avoid paying tithing on weeks that they knew I was counting to avoid me knowing their salary (this guy was at the time a friend, but a very paranoid person in general who frequently boasted about how much he made). Another friend just flat out told me what he made. I spent no time worrying about the amounts and all my time figuring out how to get out of there faster so I could get home. Not once did I discuss the finances of other people in the ward with them or anyone else. Am I the exception or the rule? Who knows.
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
It is good you don't care. I didn't care when I was a clerk either, in fact made an effort to not pay attention or evaluate what was going on. Made an extra point to not say anything or even comment to others looking at the same numbers. If nothing else, I was typically more impressed with the poor single mom donating a small amount than I was with the rich guy donating a lot, there is something to be said for the generosity of people living in the margins.
On that note, a few years ago when we did that fundraising drive for Millie on UF.N, there were some big donations made. The one that caused me and my wife to break down in tears was a lady who gave $4 and change with an apologetic note that said, "I'm sorry, I'd give more because I've been so blessed, but that is all I have in the bank." All donations were amazing, but that one stood like a giant among them.
I've been ward clerk before and in the bishopric for a long time now (I think I'll get out this summer). I never talk about the amounts to anyone. It's kind of understood. Frankly, our main goal is to get the financial work done and get out of there (when we are doing the money I've been there since 6:30 a.m. and it's now about 1:00). We have a pretty good system ourselves and the MIS program makes everything pretty dummy-proof, so we blow through it all pretty quickly.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
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