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Thread: Allegations Chris Hill Ignored Swim Team Abuses...

  1. #1

    Allegations Chris Hill Ignored Swim Team Abuses...

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/student...232018663.html

    If most of this is true, I think Hill should be dismissed for ignoring this. I'd be curious to hear other opinions.

  2. #2
    Completely agree. This doesn't sound like one kid with a beef. This is several incidents over a 5 year period. Sorry Mr. Hill, your time is probably up.

  3. #3
    If true, Hill will get that "retirement" early.
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  4. #4
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, it would be completely out of character for the Chris Hill I know to ignore such allegations over such a long period of time. I am sure the story will be told, and I hope justice is done for all concerned. I feel sick for the athletes who were abused.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoyos Revenge View Post
    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/student...232018663.html

    If most of this is true, I think Hill should be dismissed for ignoring this. I'd be curious to hear other opinions.
    If it's all true then Dr. is probably done, although I could see a scenario where everybody but Hill is cleared out and Hill gets to stay with the understanding that he retires very soon.

    Still, there's things that don't make sense like why he would turn a blind eye for a mediocre swimming program. I also wonder how much of the allegations actually made it to Hill and how many were pre-emptlively dismissed by the associate AD (or other personnel) as is alluded to in the article. I'm not trying to suggest that this isn't true, just looking for more facts and explanation. It will be interesting to hear the other side of the story.

  6. #6
    Dr Hill is toast. He doesnt survive this. I would add "if this is all true" but Yahoo! Sports has a pretty damn good track record with these kinds of things. Doesnt look good for Hill

  7. #7
    I don't know what to think.....


    -What would you do
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoUteTroutHead View Post
    I don't know what to think.....
    MAU is a very passionate man, so I tend to just agree with him even when he seems way off. I don't think he's way off in this case so I definitely concur with his thoughts.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoyos Revenge View Post
    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/student...232018663.html

    If most of this is true, I think Hill should be dismissed for ignoring this. I'd be curious to hear other opinions.
    I'd sure like to hear Big Kahuna's take on all this. He's closer to the program than any of us.
    Desse jeito, não tem jeito.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by UBlender View Post
    Still, there's things that don't make sense like why he would turn a blind eye for a mediocre swimming program. I also wonder how much of the allegations actually made it to Hill and how many were pre-emptlively dismissed by the associate AD (or other personnel) as is alluded to in the article. I'm not trying to suggest that this isn't true, just looking for more facts and explanation. It will be interesting to hear the other side of the story.
    Here is my take. Dr. Hill has too many moat keepers. People who keep people from talking to him(wasting his time).

    The moat keepers are either:

    A. Too empowered by Hill to make decisions/handle situations that should be dealt with by him, or at least he to be consulted about the situation.
    B. Too afraid to take anything to him because of fear of being treated poorly for "wasting my time with a matter that YOU SHOULD DEAL WITH"
    C. Too incompetent to know what is important to pass on to their boss.

    My guess is that it is a little of A and a healthy portion of B. I know several people who work or have worked in the AD office who feel that B is a major problem. Irregardless, Hill is directly responsible for A,B, and C.

    As someone who hires and empowers many moat keepers, I am sometimes taken back by complaints that my wife hears about from people dealing with our moat keepers. Complaints that I, as a business owner, really needed to know about.
    Last edited by Jarid in Cedar; 03-08-2013 at 11:20 PM.
    “Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.”
    André Gide

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarid in Cedar View Post
    Here is my take. Dr. Hill has too many moat keepers. People who keep outside people from talking to him(wasting his time).

    The moat keepers are either:

    A. Too empowered by Hill to make decisions/handle situations that should be dealt with by him, or at least he to be consulted about the situation.
    B. Too afraid to take anything to him because of fear of being treated poorly for "wasting my time with a matter that YOU SHOULD DEAL WITH"
    C. Too incompetent to know what is important to pass on to their boss.

    My guess is that it is a little of A and a healthy portion of B. I know several people who work or have worked in the AD office who feel that B is a major problem. Irregardless, Hill is directly responsible for A,B, and C.

    As someone who hires and empowers many moat keepers, I am sometimes taken back by complaints that my wife hears about from people dealing with our moat keepers. Complaints that I, as a business owner, really needed to know about.
    I have not found this any of these things to be true. I have written e-mails to Hill that have been critical of things and also positive and have always received a response. On a couple of occasions I have received phone calls. We have not always agreed on things, but there has always been a willingness to respond and have a dialogue. I am not a heavy hitter who makes a big donation each year so that is not the explanation. If people want to get to Hill they can easily do that. Pete Olizcek is Hill's right hand guy and I don't believe he would keep allegations of this type from Hill. I don't think A, B or C apply to him in any way based on my interactions.

    If these allegations are true, and now that they are out there will certainly be an investigation into them, Hill and Oliczek should both be fired if the allegations are true.

  12. #12
    Why would you write a letter to Dr. Hill?


    -What would you do
    if you saw spaceships over Glasgow?
    Would you fear them?
    Every aircraft, every camera, is a wish that wasn't granted.

    What was that for?
    Try to be bad.


  13. #13

    I have to admit I'm really conflicted on this one

    Quote Originally Posted by 480ute View Post
    MAU is a very passionate man, so I tend to just agree with him even when he seems way off. I don't think he's way off in this case so I definitely concur with his thoughts.
    I've had the pleasure of meeting Chris Hill personally just a few times. One of the first times was in 2006 when he was at the KJZZ studios for the filming of the TV commercials with the Shasta. He was a very friendly man and talked openly with people that were there. He got a kick out of the Shasta and everything we had in it and joked that he could easily see himself living in it one day if only it had a shower. We kidded him that he could park it by the stadium, the fieldhouse or the Huntsman Center and hit the showers in any one of them.

    However at the same time there was no question that he was in charge of things that day. I still don't know if the commercials were written, contracted and approved by the athletics department or the marketing department but Chris Hill was very interested in every facet that was happening. It's his baby and everything has to be just right.

    So where I'm conflicted on this is in one area. Everyone knew the Shah of Iran was a brutal dictator but he was our dictator and did what we wanted so we "looked into" allegations of abuses. Same with Marcos in the Philippines, Mubarek in Egypt and more. At the same time there were so many reports of Majerus being the dick of all dicks, albeit with a heart of gold in some cases, but he was our NCAA championship game. So Chris Hill stuck with him and by him regardless of the circumstance. Then, of course, circumstances hit in which we couldn't defend our dictators nor could Chris Hill defend Rick.

    So I'm trying to work both sides of the concept here. I have no question that Chris Hill wants Utah athletics promoted to the public, particularly the big check writing public as a shiny product. Everything shiny, glossy and perfectly polished whether it's a diamond, platinum, or a turd disguised as either of the above. But at the same time it's swimming for crying out loud. Winslow is a $98K per year swim coach. If Chris Hill heard these allegations and there was any evidence at all you shitcan Winslow and hire a new swimming coach. Why on earth would you put the amount of work into a coverup that people are speculating for a swimming coach?

    Guess we'll see.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I have not found this any of these things to be true. I have written e-mails to Hill that have been critical of things and also positive and have always received a response. On a couple of occasions I have received phone calls. We have not always agreed on things, but there has always been a willingness to respond and have a dialogue. I am not a heavy hitter who makes a big donation each year so that is not the explanation. If people want to get to Hill they can easily do that. Pete Olizcek is Hill's right hand guy and I don't believe he would keep allegations of this type from Hill. I don't think A, B or C apply to him in any way based on my interactions.

    If these allegations are true, and now that they are out there will certainly be an investigation into them, Hill and Oliczek should both be fired if the allegations are true.
    As a fan/donor, my experience has been the same as yours. I am speaking to the operations of the AD office. I get that not every boss is well liked by their employees, but some of the culture is problematic.
    “Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.”
    André Gide

  15. #15
    Hill is the AD. The buck stops with him.

    If the allegations against him are true, he should be fired and have his pension stripped. No living off the taxpayer during retirement for him.
    "Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." - Red Smith

  16. #16

    What I find interesting...

    Is many on here and other boards are so quick to assume these things are true and then suggest Chris be dismissed because of them. Yet many of these folks are the same who have held a grudge for years against Chris for not renewing Rick Majerus' contract when they know full well that Rick was abusive to his athletes. Seems hypocritical to me. I personally find no abuse of amateur athletes acceptable regardless of whether he's a winning coach or veteran AD.

    Regardless, I hope it's not true and I hope if it is, proper action is taken against all who were and or should have been involved, even if they chose not to be.
    A Utah Man am I

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by codered View Post
    Is many on here and other boards are so quick to assume these things are true and then suggest Chris be dismissed because of them. Yet many of these folks are the same who have held a grudge for years against Chris for not renewing Rick Majerus' contract when they know full well that Rick was abusive to his athletes. Seems hypocritical to me. I personally find no abuse of amateur athletes acceptable regardless of whether he's a winning coach or veteran AD.

    Regardless, I hope it's not true and I hope if it is, proper action is taken against all who were and or should have been involved, even if they chose not to be.
    I haven't read a single post where anybody is saying these things are unequivocally true. Most people are saying "if the allegations prove to be true then Hill should be gone." As far as the abuse, some of the allegations make it sound as if Winslow may have put people's lives in jeopardy, and don't forget about the sexual abuse claim. This is a bit different than the issues with Majerus.
    Last edited by 480ute; 03-08-2013 at 11:23 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by codered View Post
    Is many on here and other boards are so quick to assume these things are true and then suggest Chris be dismissed because of them. Yet many of these folks are the same who have held a grudge for years against Chris for not renewing Rick Majerus' contract when they know full well that Rick was abusive to his athletes. Seems hypocritical to me. I personally find no abuse of amateur athletes acceptable regardless of whether he's a winning coach or veteran AD.

    Regardless, I hope it's not true and I hope if it is, proper action is taken against all who were and or should have been involved, even if they chose not to be.
    What everyone "knows" is frequently wrong, particularly early reports. I don't think there is anything in this world that would surprise me much, but I do think we should wait until all the facts are in before making any judgments.
    “The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.”
    Carl Sagan

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by 480ute View Post
    I haven't read a single post where anybody is saying these things are unequivocally true. Most people are saying "if the allegations prove to be true he should be gone." As far as the abuse, some of the allegations make it sound as if he may have put people's lives in jeopardy, and don't forget about the sexual abuse claim. This is a bit different than the issues with Majerus.
    I fully understand your points, however my point remains true. Rick sexually abused (please don't try to argue that whipping your wang out numerous times in practice is not sexual abuse), physically abused and verbally abused his players and many "fans" were pissed when he wasn't renewed and now they want Chris gone. It's hypocritical to say the least. Choosing to only see that which we desire to see is the real problem and the real reason abuse continues to go unreported and without investigation. Whether it's us fans looking away in one instance, but not tolerating it in another, or an AD that acts in one situation and not the other. It shouldn't matter and it should not be tolerated.

    If these allegations are true, just like Rick, Chris should be gone. But the same whiny fans that cried when Rick left should take a big dose of STFU IMHO. They have no room to judge anyone who may have looked the other way as that is exactly what they did in Rick's case.
    A Utah Man am I

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by GarthUte View Post
    Hill is the AD. The buck stops with him.

    If the allegations against him are true, he should be fired and have his pension stripped. No living off the taxpayer during retirement for him.
    Agree 100%, if true he should not be allowed to retire.

    The Yahoo article even has allegations of the coach sexually abusing a 15 year old girl. The Yahoo comments section has a few people comparing this to Sandusky. Just people drawing that kind of parallel to Utah but this is going to get bad.

    The coach, Hill, and anyone else involved should fry if it's proven they sat by and did nothing.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Hill (and his 25+ years of good standing) deserves the benefit of the doubt. I bet you could find 25 Utah football players over the same time period that would claim they were unfairly mistreated by the football coaching staff. It's just the nature of competitive college athletics.

    I assume Urban and Kyles injured football players working in the "Pit" could be labeled abuse by some.
    Last edited by Scorcho; 03-09-2013 at 12:13 AM.

  22. #22
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I re-read all the Yahoo articles and a few things seem clear to me. First, I've been involved in lots of internal investigations and I've learned that initial allegations only give you a place to start. In almost every case the end result is different from the allegations -- sometimes much worse, sometimes much better. A decent investigation has to be very thorough and involve several investigators. Even then you will have differing eyewitness accounts of the same incidents. That's almost an iron law of investigations. In short, it's going to be a while before anyone can draw any conclusions. So saying "If this is true, he should be punished" is kind of empty. It's like saying "If the accused murderer is guilty, he should be punished." Of course he should.

    Second, it's way too early to compare this to Penn State. By every account I've read, the sexual molestation of the teenage girl occurred in Arizona before the guy became the swimming coach at Utah. (If I'm wrong, please tell me.) It seems that in the reports so far no one is alleging any sexual misconduct while he was at Utah, although it should not surprise anyone if there was such misconduct, because I don't think guys who do that stop on their own. Still, here we don't have a 60-70 year-old man raping little boys over a 10-year period. We do appear to have a sadistically abusive coach.

    Finally, in full discosure, I have known Chris Hill for a long time and on a purely personal level I cannot believe he'd ignore reports of this nature, especially over a long period of time. I admit I don't know much about how he runs his department or the culture there. So my admittedly biased opinion is based on his personality, not his management style.

    I really hope a good, credible investigation is done and makes clear exactly what happened. It probably should be done by an outside organization.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I re-read all the Yahoo articles and a few things seem clear to me. First, I've been involved in lots of internal investigations and I've learned that initial allegations only give you a place to start. In almost every case the end result is different from the allegations -- sometimes much worse, sometimes much better. A decent investigation has to be very thorough and involve several investigators. Even then you will have differing eyewitness accounts of the same incidents. That's almost an iron law of investigations. In short, it's going to be a while before anyone can draw any conclusions. So saying "If this is true, he should be punished" is kind of empty. It's like saying "If the accused murderer is guilty, he should be punished." Of course he should.

    Second, it's way too early to compare this to Penn State. By every account I've read, the sexual molestation of the teenage girl occurred in Arizona before the guy became the swimming coach at Utah. (If I'm wrong, please tell me.) It seems that in the reports so far no one is alleging any sexual misconduct while he was at Utah, although it should not surprise anyone if there was such misconduct, because I don't think guys who do that stop on their own. Still, here we don't have a 60-70 year-old man raping little boys over a 10-year period. We do appear to have a sadistically abusive coach.

    Finally, in full discosure, I have known Chris Hill for a long time and on a purely personal level I cannot believe he'd ignore reports of this nature, especially over a long period of time. I admit I don't know much about how he runs his department or the culture there. So my admittedly biased opinion is based on his personality, not his management style.

    I really hope a good, credible investigation is done and makes clear exactly what happened. It probably should be done by an outside organization.
    After Penn State happened, this is the moment I feared most with regard to Utah athletics. A scandal that goes beyond impermissible benefits and other truly trifling NCAA infractions, and hits at the heart of human decency, morality and ethical behavior. Quite frankly, I'm loathe to associate with anyone who tries justifying it. Alma mater above all is an attitude that thoroughly disgusts me about college sports, regardless of whether it's some lone Bama nutjob poisoning the trees at Auburn or Penn State truthers like Franco Harris who are incapable of dealing with the truth, and whose efforts are forever geared toward altering it.

    L.A., you're a good guy. So please take the following to heart. While your experience in internal investigations is noted, so is your complete lack of investigative reporting knowledge. In short, please be quiet on Yahoo's methods. The report is thorough, highly damaging to countless people at the U. and a galaxy away from being solely the work of one "investigator." If you insist on doubting its credibility, ask Reggie Bush or the University of Miami about Yahoo's credibility (The female reporter who kick-started the Paterno investigation only won a Pulitzer).

    Chris Hill, much like Joe Paterno was for a week or so before he was fired, is done at Utah. He may be your friend, but I would get accustomed very quickly to stop defending him on this matter, or hoping that there's something out there that will exonerate him. Yahoo is the Mike Wallace of collegiate sports journalism. They are the best, they rarely misstep and when they show up at your doorstep, you are all but finished, because they don't show up until they've done their homework -- and always better than their subject could ever hope to do for itself

    Ultimately, we're dealing with real people as victims. Discrediting their experiences or saying they are incomplete is tantamount to call the swimmers and their parents liars. They have no motivation to lie, and hardly the savvy to ensure all of their made-up stories add up. In many ways, your post encapsulates how this is already like Penn State (The American sporting public is already drawing that connection -- go read the comments section at the end of the story if you don't believe me). The "good, credible investigation" by "an outside organization" has already been done. The Freeh Report didn't turn up much different than what was discovered already about Paterno; if anything, it cemented what was reported. What further investigation would uncover anything that would excuse or justify what's already been documented?

    Hill, much like Paterno at Penn State, has been grossly deified (I am more than happy to be taken to task for my public efforts in this arena as well). Their respective spheres of influence differ greatly, obviously, but within their own athletic departments, their pull, influence and power is unquestioned. So is the public trust in them to do the right thing. If Paterno's expressed lack of foresight couldn't cut muster at State College, then ditto for Hill at the U. Ignorance on the matter is not a valid defense. Hill's had five years to think about what to do if this ever came to life. He shouldn't need anything more until close of business Wednesday to tender his resignation.
    Last edited by SoCalPat; 03-09-2013 at 03:47 AM.

  24. #24
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I am not sure what you are trying to say in some regards, so I want to be clear about what I am saying, just in case some things in my earlier post have been misunderstood.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Quite frankly, I'm loathe to associate with anyone who tries justifying it.
    I don't see anyone here who's done that yet. I'm certainly not.

    L.A., you're a good guy. So please take the following to heart. While your experience in internal investigations is noted, so is your complete lack of investigative reporting knowledge. In short, please be quiet on Yahoo's methods.
    I have no criticisms whatsoever of Yahoo's methods.

    Chris Hill... is done at Utah.
    You may well be right, and I frankly fear that you are. I just think it's too early to say. We can agree to disagree about that. I'm not going to say anything more than that we should wait and see. I don't think we will have to wait long.

    Ultimately, we're dealing with real people as victims. Discrediting their experiences or saying they are incomplete is tantamount to call the swimmers and their parents liars.
    I do not mean to call them that. So please don't suggest that I do. This is a terrible story and I fervently hope we get to a just result for everyone involve. That may mean some bad results for people I care about, but the facts are what they are.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 03-09-2013 at 07:36 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #25
    I think it's best to reserve judgement until more information is known. Despite the touted reliability of Yahoo Sports, we really have only heard one side of the story to this point and there are other possible variables that could come into play.

  26. #26
    Makes me wonder if these allegations made it to Chris Hill around the time the pac10 was expanding and he swept them under the rug. Kind of an ends justifies the means type of thinking.

    Of course, it just might be my continued jealousy of Utahs current position that made me think that...

  27. #27
    Obviously any complaints of abuse by any coach or professor should be investigated seriously. But I gotta say it seems like horrible, horrible judgment for the AD's office to ignore these type of complaints about a SWIMMING coach.

    Seems like it would have been simple common sense to fire this guy's ass after 1 or 2 complaints. Why on earth would you put the university's reputation and your job on the line (if you're Hill or one of his associate ADs) for a SWIMMING coach?

    Sure if you have a proven coach in a revenue sport like Majerus or Leach you might want to put up with some crazy behavior as long as it doesn't cross the line into something criminal.

  28. #28
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CardiacCoug View Post
    Obviously any complaints of abuse by any coach or professor should be investigated seriously. But I gotta say it seems like horrible, horrible judgment for the AD's office to ignore these type of complaints about a SWIMMING coach.

    Seems like it would have been simple common sense to fire this guy's ass after 1 or 2 complaints. Why on earth would you put the university's reputation and your job on the line (if you're Hill or one of his associate ADs) for a SWIMMING coach?

    Sure if you have a proven coach in a revenue sport like Majerus or Leach you might want to put up with some crazy behavior as long as it doesn't cross the line into something criminal.
    Good question. I've been thinking the same thing.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post

    Second, it's way too early to compare this to Penn State. By every account I've read, the sexual molestation of the teenage girl occurred in Arizona before the guy became the swimming coach at Utah.

    I really hope a good, credible investigation is done and makes clear exactly what happened. It probably should be done by an outside organization.
    I disagree strongly on the first point and here's why. Penn State was never about raping boys in the shower. Penn State was about people knowing that boys were being raped in the shower and doing nothing about it, covering it up for the supposed good of the institution. That the allegation here, and the fact that the allegedly ignored/covered up behavior is less shocking is hardly the point. Like it or not, Penn State is on everybody's brain.

    As I've said elsewhere, if the sexual assault was known before the hire (and I'm not saying it was), that's a problem. If it was discovered after the hire and nothing was done, that's also a problem. The fact that it occurred prior to his tenure at Utah is a red herring. Yes, let's continue to put a bad person in a position to do bad but less illegal things, shall we?

    Your last part is dead on. Outside thorough investigation. Disinfect with sunlight.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by CardiacCoug View Post
    Obviously any complaints of abuse by any coach or professor should be investigated seriously. But I gotta say it seems like horrible, horrible judgment for the AD's office to ignore these type of complaints about a SWIMMING coach.

    Seems like it would have been simple common sense to fire this guy's ass after 1 or 2 complaints. Why on earth would you put the university's reputation and your job on the line (if you're Hill or one of his associate ADs) for a SWIMMING coach?

    Sure if you have a proven coach in a revenue sport like Majerus or Leach you might want to put up with some crazy behavior as long as it doesn't cross the line into something criminal.

    Because of the fact that we are talking about a "freaking" SWIMMING coach, my worry is that there is something deeper than this. What else is taking place behind the scenes that we don't know about? Why on earth would the AD department turn the other way for a swimming coach?

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