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Thread: Allegations Chris Hill Ignored Swim Team Abuses...

  1. #361
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    I would expect that we'll throw Winslow (easy target) under the bus and express some kind of remorse that we didn't listen more to what Keith Henschen said in his 2009 letter to the compliance department -- that there was a disconnect that would've resulted in a much different outcome had it been handled properly. We'll stress the overwhelming positive experiences that athletes at the U. experience and regret that not everyone shares those same experiences, but without mentioning the swimmers as a group. We'll also claim to be implementing procedures that prevent something like this from ever happening again.

    I'm past placing blame on individuals or fighting with the apologists -- that kind of fan is on every campus in America. That said, this investigation cannot be taken seriously if it doesn't account for Pete Olisczcak's role in all of this and he wasn't contacted (I suppose he's also within his rights not to say anything, and that raises all kinds of mixed messages if he was, yet didn't). I've said it all along -- the entire truth cannot be known without the first-hand account of what amounted to the most direct contact between Winslow and the athletic department.

  2. #362
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Pat, what kind of investigation would satisfy you? It seems to me you've already drawn some strong conclusions from the early press reports alone.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
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    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
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    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Pat, what kind of investigation would satisfy you? It seems to me you've already drawn some strong conclusions from the early press reports alone.
    Look, we screwed up. Own it. I don't care if we only throw only Oli and Winslow under the bus; just own it. It's a trait rarely found in collegiate sports these days, and is the very least I am demanding.

    No one needs to be fired, no one needs to resign. Just own it, vow to do better and move on.

  4. #364
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    We are owning it, above and beyond what I expected. "Proud to be a Ute" is cliche, but it means something to me today.

  5. #365
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    We are owning it, above and beyond what I expected. "Proud to be a Ute" is cliche, but it means something to me today.
    Is it online somewhere?

    By the way, I know Chris Hill and he is a man of honor and integrity. It would be appropriate for you to acknowledge that you were wrong to assume the contrary about him, which is what you seemed to do in this thread.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 07-02-2013 at 10:52 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Is it online somewhere?
    trib article online. Even though we are owning it, I dont suppose it is a coincidence that we are releasing it July 2, in the middle of the holiday doldrums..

  7. #367
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    What the Trib has reported so far:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56...abuse.html.csp

    And while the complaints of abuse from students were appropriately handled, Athletic Director Chris Hill did not adequately follow up on reports of Winslow’s alcohol problems, the investigators said.
    Looks like Winslow is at least a problem drinker. That wasn't something people were talking about the way they were talking about how the abuse reports were handled, but it would explain an awful lot. It also looks like the athletics department didn't deal with it. I see that failure a lot, and it never ends well. It didn't this time.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 07-02-2013 at 11:07 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    We are owning it, above and beyond what I expected. "Proud to be a Ute" is cliche, but it means something to me today.
    That is a far cry from your first post on this, when you said Chris Hill was done at Utah and should tender his resignation.
    Last edited by concerned; 07-02-2013 at 11:07 AM.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Is it online somewhere?

    By the way, I know Chris Hill and he is a man of honor and integrity. It would be appropriate for you to acknowledge that you were wrong to assume the contrary about him, which is what you seemed to do in this thread.
    Get off your high horse. You think I was excluding Hill when I talked about my satisfaction in seeing us own it? He owned it just as much as anyone ... and then some.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    That is a far cry from your first post on this, when you said Chris Hill was done at Utah and should tender his resignation.
    I'm not going to justify being rash with my intial reaction. The public rebuke Hill got today from David Pershing showed that some people of influence were more than a little pissed off at how this went down.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    I'm not going to justify being rash with my intial reaction. The public rebuke Hill got today from David Pershing showed that some people of influence were more than a little pissed off at how this went down.
    Agreed.

  12. #372
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Aaron Falk's Twitter feed has some interesting tweets about the news conference (look at today's tweets).

    https://twitter.com/aaronfalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  13. #373
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Get off your high horse. You think I was excluding Hill when I talked about my satisfaction in seeing us own it? He owned it just as much as anyone ... and then some.
    You have expressed satisfaction that the mea culpa apparently met your standards. In light of your consistent and repeated predictions of a cover-up or whitewash, I think a few bites of crow are also in order.

    This short report adds insight:

    https://twitter.com/aaronfalk/status/352112793111109633

    Further evidence of "owning it." I hope Hills is sufficiently abject for you.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 07-02-2013 at 01:04 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #374
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Here's the U's press release:

    University of Utah Strengthens Oversight of Student Athlete Complaints

    New reporting structure designed to improve student experience

    July 2, 2013 – University of Utah President David Pershing today announced new measures to ensure student athletes have multiple outlets to report inappropriate behavior. Pershing acted after an independent investigation revealed deficiencies in the current system.


    In March, the University of Utah’s Board of Trustees hired three highly regarded attorneys as independent investigators to explore allegations of misconduct by former coach Greg Winslow within the university’s swimming and diving program. The final report – compiled by investigators Alan Sullivan, John Nielsen and Michael Glazier – was made public today after a three-month, comprehensive investigation, for which more than 50 witnesses were interviewed.


    “After thoroughly reviewing this report, it is clear to me the athletics department failed to properly support its students,” Pershing said. “While the administration did place Winslow on a performance improvement plan after several complaints about his coaching techniques, a communications breakdown allowed Winslow’s personal problems to disrupt the program and create an unnecessary, uncomfortable and inappropriate environment for our student athletes. This is unacceptable.”


    Pershing is committed to working with Director of Athletics Chris Hill and the athletics department to implement appropriate change. Pershing added he is confident Hill and his team are fully dedicated to taking whatever steps are necessary to correct their mistakes.


    “During my 26 years as the director of athletics at the University of Utah, our top priority as a department has always been to provide the best student-athlete support in the nation,” said Hill. “As this comprehensive and independent report indicates, we could have done better. I could have done better. I am ultimately responsible for all of our 400 student athletes and pledge to do a better job in the monitoring of our staff and programs.”


    Hill has already implemented changes within his department and will now incorporate recommendations from the investigators. The enhancements include:



    • An ombudsman to athletics has been appointed through the student affairs office and will serve as a confidential conduit for student athletes. The position, held by Ryan Randall, will report directly to the dean of students, independent of the athletics department.



    • Pershing has appointed Karen Paisley as faculty athletic representative/special assistant to the president with specific direction to monitor student welfare.



    • Members of the Student Athlete Wellness Team will report instances of abusive coaching practices directly to the director of athletics.



    • Adopt written standards for safe and effective coaching methods and ensure these standards are strictly enforced.



    • The University of Utah will work to better ensure all employees and students are provided with information on substance abuse and how to report it. Associate Vice President Amy Wildermuth will work to verify that the proper disciplinary process is followed if substance abuse occurs, with consequences ranging from a performance improvement plan to a required leave of absence for treatment to termination.


    President Pershing has directed the athletics department to have all improvements in place by Aug. 15. He will meet every three weeks with Hill to monitor progress.
    I'm sure the entire report will be online soon and we can then argue over what it means.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 07-02-2013 at 12:52 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Don't argue for too long. This story is dead.
    /endthread
    “Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.”
    André Gide

  16. #376
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Don't argue for too long. This story is dead.
    TIC. You're right.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  17. #377
    I would like to read the report. I am especially interested in the review of training techniques. I know many have asked me and I stand by prior posts that there is a fine line between revolutionary and questionable techinques. It sounds like at worst Winslow had some questionable drills. Not condoning the rest of the saga, in fact far from it. Hopefully the new coach can get the program on the mend? Our men's team had one heck of a year in light of all the noise they faced at the PAC championships.

    I will also add that digesting the concussion web site, US Swimming has a lot of improvement to do in protecting our young, upcoming swimmers. I am beyond disappointed in the history of what has occurred.
    All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.

  18. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    You have expressed satisfaction that the mea culpa apparently met your standards. In light of your consistent and repeated predictions of a cover-up or whitewash, I think a few bites of crow are also in order.

    This short report adds insight:

    https://twitter.com/aaronfalk/status/352112793111109633

    Further evidence of "owning it." I hope Hills is sufficiently abject for you.
    Kiss my ass, LA. All of the apologists who insisted or strongly suggested there was nothing to see can do so likewise. Your ilk was consistently insisting that the swimmers' complaints had no validity to them and that the athletic department was above board in handling it all. Pershing's public rebuke of Hill (which most reasonable people would agree falls one step short of being fired -- an appropriate punishment for someone who allowed/ignored/enabled a psychotic drunk to lead one of their athletic programs), as well as the latter's public reaction to that scolding, backs my overriding concern, one I have consistently expressed: We screwed up.

    Hill's reaction is either the greatest acting job ever, or even he was able to recognize the gravity of what happened, and I am nowhere near cynical enough to believe it's the former. His slate is clean with me.

    I've been forthright and commending in how we handled today. You've hardly been likewise toward the aggrieved, and not once suggested you were dead balls-on wrong as to the seriousness of this affair, demanding apologies from those who have nothing to apologize for. Eat crow? How about you eat something else?
    Last edited by SoCalPat; 07-02-2013 at 02:14 PM.

  19. #379
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Allegations Chris Hill Ignored Swim Team Abuses...

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Kiss my ass, LA. All of the apologists who insisted or strongly suggested there was nothing to see can do so likewise. Your ilk was consistently insisting that the swimmers' complaints had no validity to them and that the athletic department was above board in handling it all. Pershing's public rebuke of Hill (which most reasonable people would agree falls one step short of being fired -- an appropriate punishment for someone who allowed/ignored/enabled a psychotic drunk to lead one of their athletic programs), as well as the latter's public reaction to that scolding, backs my overriding concern, one I have consistently expressed: We screwed up.

    Hill's reaction is either the greatest acting job ever, or even he was able to recognize the gravity of what happened, and I am nowhere near cynical enough to believe it's the latter. His slate is clean with me.

    I've been forthright and commending in how we handled today. You've hardly been likewise toward the aggrieved, and not once suggested you were dead balls-on wrong as to the seriousness of this affair, demanding apologies from those who have nothing to apologize for. Eat crow? How about you eat something else?
    Calm down. I've said all along that we needed to wait until the investigation was concluded and the report was out before making judgments. You've never said that and have attacked those who said so. You pooh-poohed the report and predicted a whitewash. Now you're climbing all over me?

    The report speaks for itself, whatever gloss you want to put on it. It is clear Hill screwed up. Even you acknowledged that his response has shown he gets that. This matter is over.

    P.S.: No discipline at all, which is what Pershing said Hill was getting, is a far cry from "one step short of being fired." So I think your "most reasonable people" card doesn't play well here.

    I'm eating brisket, by the way.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Calm down. I've said all along that we needed to wait until the investigation was concluded and the report was out before making judgments. You've never said that and have attacked those who said so. You pooh-poohed the report and predicted a whitewash. Now you're climbing all over me?

    The report speaks for itself, whatever gloss you want to put on it. It is clear Hill screwed up. Even you acknowledged that his response has shown he gets that. This matter is over.

    P.S.: No discipline at all, which is what Pershing said Hill was getting, is a far cry from "one step short of being fired." So I think your "most reasonable people" card doesn't play well here.

    I'm eating brisket, by the way.
    I think you need to go back to earlier today and see who climbed all over who first.

    What Pershing says publicly could be a far cry from what could be said/done privately. But that's as far as I'll speculate on what today's rebuke means.

    Brisket tastes a lot better than what I had in mind. Enjoy your lunch.

  21. #381
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    I think you need to go back to earlier today and see who climbed all over who first.

    What Pershing says publicly could be a far cry from what could be said/done privately. But that's as far as I'll speculate on what today's rebuke means.

    Brisket tastes a lot better than what I had in mind. Enjoy your lunch.
    It's just a family argument. Peace!

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  22. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    It's just a family argument. Peace!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0
    Desse jeito, não tem jeito.

  23. #383

  24. #384
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    I just finished reading the whole thing. I was interested in the alcohol abuse and the failure to address it aggressively. I run into that in my work advising clients, and the problem of not wanting to talk about the "elephant in the room" is something some organizations are better at than others. If the report is accurate, the U. athletics dept. was pretty deficient in this area. My guess is that will change now. It also appears that Olescziak (sp?) was a huge part of that problem. The investigators found so many independent sources for that guy's shortcomings that it doesn't look he is being scapegoated.

    Still, when you are the guy where the buck stops, and you hear of substance a use and possible addiction by someone in a position of trust in your organization, you have to be all over that and not leave it to someone else to be sure the problem is addressed effectively. The report shows that Chris Hill didn't do that in this case. Thank heavens no one was seriously hurt or killed as a result. I suppose that is the #1 lesson he and the athletic department learned.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #385
    I wonder how Majerus would have coped with the steps that are being instituted today to protect atheletes from abuse?
    Last edited by concerned; 07-02-2013 at 07:10 PM.

  26. #386
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    I wonder how Majerus would have coped with the steps that are being instituted today to protect athaletes from abuse?
    He would have found them oh-fensive.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  27. #387
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Whole lotta meh ... Hardly the Penn State 2.0 that some were clamoring.

  28. #388
    I seem to remember some swearing to renounce their Ute Fan status if "Hill wasn't fired" over this "scandal." I for one wouldn't miss them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    Whole lotta meh ... Hardly the Penn State 2.0 that some were clamoring.
    A Utah Man am I

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