What kind of Mormon are you?

[midnightversion]

To turn your back on the Savior is to know that he exists and to deny him. It's equivalent to going outside at noonday, looking up at the sun and saying, "That's not the sun." It takes a complete knowledge and then complete denial.

Not very many people fall into that category.

[Pheidippides]

By time frame they obviously grew out of Nauvoo. Emma knew she couldn't go west with the Brighamites because she didn't want to marry Brigham Young and also disliked much of the Nauvoo-era teachings that BY would continue.

My comment referred to theology. That which I have learned by reading John Hamer, it seems the CoC was heavily influenced by those who were 'left behind' at various places: Kirtland, Missouri, and eventually Nauvoo. For instance the temple was a special place of worship, but was not secretive and didn't include the Masonic ties nor the theology of the current post-Nauvoo temples. In Kirtland, for instance, they alowed ministers from other local congregations to teach and preach at the pulpits.

The CoC famously tried to prove that polygamy was introduced by BY. Joseph Smith III travelled to SLC in the late 1800s to interview people who knew his father, etc. Perhaps the biggest change introduced by BY was the open (some would say flamboyant) practice of polygamy, while Joseph Smith was highly secretive about it and even denied it publically when at the time he in fact had over a dozen wives ("people say I have many wives, when I can see only one! ").

Ah. Then we are agreed. I feel so badly for poor Joseph Smith III, who seems to have been a pretty decent fellow but couldn't get a straight answer out of his mom about his day's involvement with polygamy.

[LadyUte]

I attend church every Sunday. Hold a calling. But, I do have a problem sticking to all the rules. I have been pretty vocal on uf.n about some of the rules I do not follow. Most of the people close to me do not know about this however.

[Mrs. Funk]

I attend church most weeks, teach the young women (occasionally while wearing pants ), and have lots of questions and unorthodox beliefs/viewpoints. The past five years have brought many transitions in my faith. So far I've weathered the storm but sometimes I wonder why I stick around.

[Utahute72]

I probably approach this question from a different point of view than most on here. Having been raised and trained as a skeptic I will never fully accept anything on faith. I have remained active enough to teach Gospel Doctrine, be a member of branch presidencies and priesthood presidencies, although I'm less so now. I do think that the base Mormon theology and doctrine most closely dovetails with science of any of the faiths I've studied. I think the promises are intriguing. I will say that I've been involved with a number of multifaith discussion groups and each time they have sent me in quest of an answer about the basics of doctrine I have been able to find an answer that satisfied my curiosity. To me the most powerful promise is that if you really want to know and ask with a sincere desire and true intent an answer will be provided. I do think the church works less well in areas where it is the dominant religion because you have too many who only attend because of social pressures. I am particularly distressed by those that display neither humility or charity.

[LadyUte]

I attend church most weeks, teach the young women (occasionally while wearing pants ), and have lots of questions and unorthodox beliefs/viewpoints. The past five years have brought many transitions in my faith. So far I've weathered the storm but sometimes I wonder why I stick around.

I am in YW as well. And I also wonder what keeps me going. Part of that is my children. I have a 16 year old and she is overboard as far as the gospel goes. Always talking about it. I am not ready to have any sort of discussion with her. Especially not the I am not sure if I really believe the church is true. It would devastate her. Maybe when she is older.

[Newbomb Turk]

I have a hard time believing any of it. That said, if believing it helps someone in their life, then I am all for it. It's just not for me.

[Mrs. Funk]

I endured a lesson today by a member of the YW presidency that had me ready to run out of the room. The topic of was why we should treat our bodies like temples, which is all right of itself. The lesson seriously was 35 minutes about how tattoos and piercings make you ugly and then another 15 minutes about how if you dress like a whore you'll be treated like a whore.

Maybe others were as upset as I was, but most people were nodding right along. I felt like an ostrich at a turkey farm. Days like today leave me feeling very alone at church.

[IdahoUteTroutHead]

In my opinion the church needs to be 100% honest about the pock marks of it's history. Full disclosure of "actual" history and doing away with the sugar coating may affect some hard core member at the outset but in the long run I think it would really improve how people view the church and relate to it and it's background.

[Newbomb Turk]

That attitude of "if you dress like a whore you'll be treated like a whore" really makes me angry. To me, it's the same as saying that a women is inviting rape if she dresses a certain way.

On a lighter note, I do treat my body like a temple......a temple of doom......

[IdahoUteTroutHead]

I endured a lesson today by a member of the YW presidency that had me ready to run out of the room. The topic of was why we should treat our bodies like temples, which is all right of itself. The lesson seriously was 35 minutes about how tattoos and piercings make you ugly and then another 15 minutes about how if you dress like a whore you'll be treated like a whore.

Maybe others were as upset as I was, but most people were nodding right along. I felt like an ostrich at a turkey farm. Days like today leave me feeling very alone at church.

It is opinion and ridiculous conjecture like that, judging a book by it's cover, which ends up driving more people away from the church than people to it.

[Mrs. Funk]

That attitude of "if you dress like a whore you'll be treated like a whore" really makes me angry. To me, it's the same as saying that a women is inviting rape if she dresses a certain way.

I agree completely.

[Utahute72]

I endured a lesson today by a member of the YW presidency that had me ready to run out of the room. The topic of was why we should treat our bodies like temples, which is all right of itself. The lesson seriously was 35 minutes about how tattoos and piercings make you ugly and then another 15 minutes about how if you dress like a whore you'll be treated like a whore.

Maybe others were as upset as I was, but most people were nodding right along. I felt like an ostrich at a turkey farm. Days like today leave me feeling very alone at church.

Hence the reason for the comment about humility and charity, or compassion. There is a better way to encourage youth to make correct choices without a demeaning, condescending attitude about it.

[Moliere]

Here's my question - there's supposed to be some eternal truths, the ordinances are eternal, with really no wiggle room for deviation in how they're carried out..

If ordinances are eternal, than the LDS church is in trouble. We've changed them quite a bit since the 1840s, including the most recent change to the initiatory ordinance. I bet in 100 years we'll be sprinkling kids heads with water for baptism.

[LA Ute]

Hence the reason for the comment about humility and charity, or compassion. There is a better way to encourage youth to make correct choices without a demeaning, condescending attitude about it.

So true. There are lots of reasons within LDS teachings for dressing modestly without going the "dress like a slut, be treated like a slut" route.

[IdahoUteTroutHead]

Hence the reason for the comment about humility and charity, or compassion. There is a better way to encourage youth to make correct choices without a demeaning, condescending attitude about it.

It is hard for mainstreamers of the church to do that when they think they are exclusive to what is right and are absolved from any judgment due to their jusitifcations that they are absolutely "right" and in their rightul place for teaching/saying things like this.

[Jarid in Cedar]

If ordinances are eternal, than the LDS church is in trouble. We've changed them quite a bit since the 1840s, including the most recent change to the initiatory ordinance. I bet in 100 years we'll be sprinkling kids heads with water for baptism.

Blasphemy

[Scratch]

That attitude of "if you dress like a whore you'll be treated like a whore" really makes me angry. To me, it's the same as saying that a women is inviting rape if she dresses a certain way.

On a lighter note, I do treat my body like a temple......a temple of doom......

I think it's very fair to say that the way you present yourself (whether it's dress, grooming, body art, hygiene, weight, etc.) will affect the way others treat you and interact with you. I also think it's important for people, including youth, to understand that. The problem, as pointed out here, is taking that message too far as an extreme scare tactic.

[Utah]

I think Joseph Smith was a believer, had a very fertile imagination, and became to believe in what he created in greater amounts, as the reaction and followers increased. I don't think he was a garden-variety con artist, only bent on accumulating money & power for himself. (The issue with young brides may have betrayed a weakness, but I can't honestly say I wouldn't have fallen into the same trap.)

I have a son on a mission, though I haven't been active for about 35 years, and following the admonition of my son, wife, the neighbors, my 85 year old aunt and I'm sure many who have gone on before, I've attempted to read the BOM. In terms of reading it cover to cover, I always get stuck on the Sword of Laban story, and have to set it aside. This is supposed to be historic. I just don't buy it, I'm sorry, but the God I believe in wouldn't instruct somebody to decapitate someone else.

Anyway, this morning my wife had be skip ahead to another part of Nephi where instruction is given on baptism; just as Jesus was baptized, everyone else needs to be baptized.

Here's my question - there's supposed to be some eternal truths, the ordinances are eternal, with really no wiggle room for deviation in how they're carried out. If a young Priest mangles the blessing of the sacrament or leaves something out, the Bishop has him do the prayer over again. I presume the same thing is true for baptism. If the wording in the baptism was "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son, amen", it would have to be done again, because the Holy Ghost was left out.

So, when John the Baptist baptized Jesus, did he say "I baptize you in the name of the Father, in... uh... in your name, and also the name of the Holy Ghost"? Exactly how did that ordinance go?

Also, we read another part that where Jesus says something like "if you turn your back on me, you would have been better not to ever know me", or something like that. I remember as a kid being taught that Outer Darkness was the place for people who had a testimony and then claimed to not have one. Today the teaching is that almost nobody goes to Outer Darkness, maybe not even Hitler. Like the change in teaching about skin color being a curse, it seems like this is a case of cherry-picking to create a more attractive message for potential members.

The claim is that the gospel is timeless and doesn't change, but I think everyone can agree the teachings have evolved quite a bit over the years. This just doesn't square up, with me.

So you don't believe in the Bible?

[norm]

I endured a lesson today by a member of the YW presidency that had me ready to run out of the room. The topic of was why we should treat our bodies like temples, which is all right of itself. The lesson seriously was 35 minutes about how tattoos and piercings make you ugly and then another 15 minutes about how if you dress like a whore you'll be treated like a whore.

Maybe others were as upset as I was, but most people were nodding right along. I felt like an ostrich at a turkey farm. Days like today leave me feeling very alone at church.

i think you'd be surprised at how many others probably share your feelings. my wife is always outspoken about this kind of stuff and will usually say something about it if somebody says ridiculous stuff like this. most of the time multiple people will thank her afterwards for speaking up.

[480ute]

I think it's very fair to say that the way you present yourself (whether it's dress, grooming, body art, hygiene, weight, etc.) will affect the way others treat you and interact with you. I also think it's important for people, including youth, to understand that. The problem, as pointed out here, is taking that message too far as an extreme scare tactic.

I cannot get over the fact that the average 18 year old nowadays thinks a neck, facial, hand, or even lower arm tattoo is a good idea. Even at the height of my youthful reckless behavior I still had the foresight to see how it might limit my job options some day. Absolutely baffling.

[IdahoUteTroutHead]

The Bible is as pourus a work of analogous literature as they come. I am not saying it isn't a worthwhile work for some but it is a loose and shaky base to determine some people's foundation of belief.

[IdahoUteTroutHead]

On the flip side I wouldn't think twice about giving a job to someone who has a tattoo, facial har or more than two piercings........

[480ute]

On the flip shide I wouldn't think twice about giving a job to someone who has a tattoo, facial har or more than two piercings........

Depends on the job though, doesn't it?

I have multiple tattoos (all from when I was between 18-21), but all are easily covered up. I have nothing against tattoos, just knew when I was getting them that some people would not hire me if I had tats on my neck, lower arms, or face.

[IdahoUteTroutHead]

I think it does depend on the job to a degree, but then again it is form of self expression that doesn't necessarily reflect on one's ability to perform or "not" perform their chosen profession.

[480ute]

I think it does depend on the job to a degree, but then again it is form of self expression that doesn't necessarily reflect on one's ability to perform or "not" perform their chosen profession.

I have no doubt that twenty years from now my cardiologist will have facial tattoos, and gauges in his ears.

[IdahoUteTroutHead]

I actually think I would rather go to a Dr. that has a nice tattoo and a nose ring.

[Mrs. Funk]

Hence the reason for the comment about humility and charity, or compassion. There is a better way to encourage youth to make correct choices without a demeaning, condescending attitude about it.

I agree. Things got pretty bad during the part of the lesson where the young women began telling pious stories about their slutty immodest friends and saying they saw this fat person with a stretched out tattoos and how ugly it was, blah blah blah. I kept waiting for the teacher to correct the course but she kept validating the judgment and meanness. I wouldn't want to join the church if I heard this kind of stuff.

I made a couple of comments but it wasn't enough to change the course of the lesson.

[480ute]

I agree. Things got pretty bad during the part of the lesson where the young women began telling pious stories about their slutty immodest friends and saying they saw this fat person with a stretched out tattoos and how ugly it was, blah blah blah. I kept waiting for the teacher to correct the course but she kept validating the judgment and meanness. I wouldn't want to join the church if I heard this kind of stuff.

I made a couple of comments but it wasn't enough to change the course of the lesson.

"Tell us more about the slutty friends," said the teacher.

[Mrs. Funk]

"Tell us more about the slutty friends," says the teacher.

Not in so many words and no one ever said slutty, but the teacher asked several more times if anyone else has had similar experiences.