The Higher Education Thread

[LA Ute]

If this is really how it is now, then I am sad for today's college students.

HOW A GENERATION LOST ITS COMMON CULTURE

My students are know-nothings. They are exceedingly nice, pleasant, trustworthy, mostly honest, well-intentioned, and utterly decent. But their brains are largely empty, devoid of any substantial knowledge that might be the fruits of an education in an inheritance and a gift of a previous generation. They are the culmination of western civilization, a civilization that has forgotten nearly everything about itself, and as a result, has achieved near-perfect indifference to its own culture.It’s difficult to gain admissions to the schools where I’ve taught – Princeton, Georgetown, and now Notre Dame. Students at these institutions have done what has been demanded of them: they are superb test-takers, they know exactly what is needed to get an A in every class (meaning that they rarely allow themselves to become passionate and invested in any one subject); they build superb resumes. They are respectful and cordial to their elders, though easy-going if crude with their peers. They respect diversity (without having the slightest clue what diversity is) and they are experts in the arts of non-judgmentalism (at least publically). They are the cream of their generation, the masters of the universe, a generation-in-waiting to run America and the world.

But ask them some basic questions about the civilization they will be inheriting, and be prepared for averted eyes and somewhat panicked looks. Who fought in the Peloponnesian War? Who taught Plato, and whom did Plato teach? How did Socrates die? Raise your hand if you have read both the Iliad and the Odyssey. The Canterbury Tales? Paradise Lost? The Inferno?

Who was Saul of Tarsus? What were the 95 theses, who wrote them, and what was their effect? Why does the Magna Carta matter? How and where did Thomas Becket die? Who was Guy Fawkes, and why is there a day named after him? What did Lincoln say in his Second Inaugural? His first Inaugural? How about his third Inaugural? What are the Federalist Papers?

Some students, due most often to serendipitous class choices or a quirky old-fashioned teacher, might know a few of these answers. But most students have not been educated to know them. At best, they possess accidental knowledge, but otherwise are masters of systematic ignorance. It is not their “fault” for pervasive ignorance of western and American history, civilization, politics, art and literature. They have learned exactly what we have asked of them – to be like mayflies, alive by happenstance in a fleeting present.

[UTEopia]

If this is really how it is now, then I am sad for today's college students.

HOW A GENERATION LOST ITS COMMON CULTURE

LA, You probably ran with a different crowd than I did, but the students I interacted with in college and law school from 75-85, were pretty uninterested in education and general learning and more interested in the game of doing well in school. I would say that I fell into that category as well. I spent my first quarter at the U mostly interested in parties and girls, did a semester abroad in Israel through BYU (sort of an outpatient drug re-hab), did a mission (loved Spain), returned to BYU for a semester (too many rules), got married and finished at the U, went to law school at University of San Diego for a year and then finished at BYU (most boring people I ever met). The move from USD to BYU was financially motivated. While painting with very broad strokes, the most interesting and well-read group of students I interacted with were at USD. Unlike most of the people I interacted with at the U and BYU, they were more interested in the experience than the job at the end of the rainbow. Maybe the fact that there was a greater diversity of background and ideology gave rise to more robust and interesting discussions or maybe since few were married they just had more time and inclination to have coffee and talk. I have spent the past few years reading and in a very few cases re-reading the "great" books and trying to learn more than the 9th grade civics version of history. I try to read things written from different historical perspectives. It has been a rewarding and enriching experience. I'm not too worried about today's students. I don't think they are too different from my generation.

[sancho]

LA, You probably ran with a different crowd than I did, but the students I interacted with in college and law school from 75-85, were pretty uninterested in education and general learning and more interested in the game of doing well in school. I would say that I fell into that category as well.

Sounds like you didn't major in literature, philosophy, or chemistry (unless is was pre-med).

[LA Ute]

LA, You probably ran with a different crowd than I did, but the students I interacted with in college and law school from 75-85, were pretty uninterested in education and general learning and more interested in the game of doing well in school. I would say that I fell into that category as well. I spent my first quarter at the U mostly interested in parties and girls, did a semester abroad in Israel through BYU (sort of an outpatient drug re-hab), did a mission (loved Spain), returned to BYU for a semester (too many rules), got married and finished at the U, went to law school at University of San Diego for a year and then finished at BYU (most boring people I ever met). The move from USD to BYU was financially motivated. While painting with very broad strokes, the most interesting and well-read group of students I interacted with were at USD. Unlike most of the people I interacted with at the U and BYU, they were more interested in the experience than the job at the end of the rainbow. Maybe the fact that there was a greater diversity of background and ideology gave rise to more robust and interesting discussions or maybe since few were married they just had more time and inclination to have coffee and talk. I have spent the past few years reading and in a very few cases re-reading the "great" books and trying to learn more than the 9th grade civics version of history. I try to read things written from different historical perspectives. It has been a rewarding and enriching experience. I'm not too worried about today's students. I don't think they are too different from my generation.

Hey, I am in your same generation!

Short summary: The U. once had a core curriculum required of all students called The Intellectual Tradition of the West, or ITW for short. It was considered ground-breaking at the time (1070s). There was a guy named Jackson Newell who was the Dean of Liberal Education and ran the ITW program. (I knew Jack well.) Since we live in a world that was shaped by those intellectual traditions, I think it is important for students who aspire to be educated to at least have some thoughtful exposure to those intellectual traditions -- warts and all (and there are plenty of warts). English majors ought to have some serious exposure to Shakespeare, even if it's just in a survey. Now that I think about it, that should be part of what used to be called "General Ed" requirements. They were called Liberal Ed requirements in my day. Students should know there was a guy named Socrates whose thinking was important to Western civilization, that there was a Renaissance, a Reformation, and an Enlightenment. Poli Sci majors (I was one) ought to know the thinking (Cicero, Locke) that influenced the American Founders. And so on. Maybe there has been too great an emphasis on "dead white males." If so, add some more diverse streams of thought, but don't dump the ones that are part of who we are as a society. No, not every student will be interested in ITW, but is should not be banned, de-emphasized, or dismissed as undesirable or not worth knowing about. I think it's important for the rising generation (or at least the intellectually inclined among them) to have a sense of who we are and how we got to where we are. They might disagree with what earlier generations said or did, but they should at least know what they said and did and why it's important today.

That's all!

[Utebiquitous]

Taking a full year of ITW - three quarters - was a highlight of my experience at the U. Unfortunately, I couldn't get into Dr. Newell's class. I took it from Dr. Stephanie Pace. She made an incredible impression and difference in my life - the first teacher to really expect thinking from me. She also insisted on cogent writing. The class mostly kicked my butt as a freshman but it's the best butt-kicking I ever had.

[UTEopia]

Hey, I am in your same generation!

Short summary: The U. once had a core curriculum required of all students called The Intellectual Tradition of the West, or ITW for short. It was considered ground-breaking at the time (1070s). There was a guy named Jackson Newell who was the Dean of Liberal Education and ran the ITW program. (I knew Jack well.) Since we live in a world that was shaped by those intellectual traditions, I think it is important for students who aspire to be educated to at least have some thoughtful exposure to those intellectual traditions -- warts and all (and there are plenty of warts). English majors ought to have some serious exposure to Shakespeare, even if it's just in a survey. Now that I think about it, that should be part of what used to be called "General Ed" requirements. They were called Liberal Ed requirements in my day. Students should know there was a guy named Socrates whose thinking was important to Western civilization, that there was a Renaissance, a Reformation, and an Enlightenment. Poli Sci majors (I was one) ought to know the thinking (Cicero, Locke) that influenced the American Founders. And so on. Maybe there has been too great an emphasis on "dead white males." If so, add some more diverse streams of thought, but don't dump the ones that are part of who we are as a society. No, not every student will be interested in ITW, but is should not be banned, de-emphasized, or dismissed as undesirable or not worth knowing about. I think it's important for the rising generation (or at least the intellectually inclined among them) to have a sense of who we are and how we got to where we are. They might disagree with what earlier generations said or did, but they should at least know what they said and did and why it's important today.

That's all!

I took 3 or 4 courses from Dr. Newell. He was one of the best professors on campus. I believe the ITW program ultimately morphed into the Honors program. My oldest daughter was in that and it gave her a different college experience in completing her lib ed requirements. She and about 50 others in her freshman class were admitted into the program and they took a curriculum taught by a variety of professors. Dr. Newell was one of the professors. The classes were structured for 25 students so you did not have those big auditorium classes.
I ran into Dr. Newell at a hamburger shop in Sugar House a few months ago and told him how much I enjoyed his classes. My name is pretty easy to remember and he said that he remembered me, which was kind.