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Thread: The Higher Education Thread

  1. #271
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    LA, You probably ran with a different crowd than I did, but the students I interacted with in college and law school from 75-85, were pretty uninterested in education and general learning and more interested in the game of doing well in school. I would say that I fell into that category as well. I spent my first quarter at the U mostly interested in parties and girls, did a semester abroad in Israel through BYU (sort of an outpatient drug re-hab), did a mission (loved Spain), returned to BYU for a semester (too many rules), got married and finished at the U, went to law school at University of San Diego for a year and then finished at BYU (most boring people I ever met). The move from USD to BYU was financially motivated. While painting with very broad strokes, the most interesting and well-read group of students I interacted with were at USD. Unlike most of the people I interacted with at the U and BYU, they were more interested in the experience than the job at the end of the rainbow. Maybe the fact that there was a greater diversity of background and ideology gave rise to more robust and interesting discussions or maybe since few were married they just had more time and inclination to have coffee and talk. I have spent the past few years reading and in a very few cases re-reading the "great" books and trying to learn more than the 9th grade civics version of history. I try to read things written from different historical perspectives. It has been a rewarding and enriching experience. I'm not too worried about today's students. I don't think they are too different from my generation.
    Hey, I am in your same generation!

    Short summary: The U. once had a core curriculum required of all students called The Intellectual Tradition of the West, or ITW for short. It was considered ground-breaking at the time (1070s). There was a guy named Jackson Newell who was the Dean of Liberal Education and ran the ITW program. (I knew Jack well.) Since we live in a world that was shaped by those intellectual traditions, I think it is important for students who aspire to be educated to at least have some thoughtful exposure to those intellectual traditions -- warts and all (and there are plenty of warts). English majors ought to have some serious exposure to Shakespeare, even if it's just in a survey. Now that I think about it, that should be part of what used to be called "General Ed" requirements. They were called Liberal Ed requirements in my day. Students should know there was a guy named Socrates whose thinking was important to Western civilization, that there was a Renaissance, a Reformation, and an Enlightenment. Poli Sci majors (I was one) ought to know the thinking (Cicero, Locke) that influenced the American Founders. And so on. Maybe there has been too great an emphasis on "dead white males." If so, add some more diverse streams of thought, but don't dump the ones that are part of who we are as a society. No, not every student will be interested in ITW, but is should not be banned, de-emphasized, or dismissed as undesirable or not worth knowing about. I think it's important for the rising generation (or at least the intellectually inclined among them) to have a sense of who we are and how we got to where we are. They might disagree with what earlier generations said or did, but they should at least know what they said and did and why it's important today.

    That's all!

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #272
    Taking a full year of ITW - three quarters - was a highlight of my experience at the U. Unfortunately, I couldn't get into Dr. Newell's class. I took it from Dr. Stephanie Pace. She made an incredible impression and difference in my life - the first teacher to really expect thinking from me. She also insisted on cogent writing. The class mostly kicked my butt as a freshman but it's the best butt-kicking I ever had.

  3. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Hey, I am in your same generation!

    Short summary: The U. once had a core curriculum required of all students called The Intellectual Tradition of the West, or ITW for short. It was considered ground-breaking at the time (1070s). There was a guy named Jackson Newell who was the Dean of Liberal Education and ran the ITW program. (I knew Jack well.) Since we live in a world that was shaped by those intellectual traditions, I think it is important for students who aspire to be educated to at least have some thoughtful exposure to those intellectual traditions -- warts and all (and there are plenty of warts). English majors ought to have some serious exposure to Shakespeare, even if it's just in a survey. Now that I think about it, that should be part of what used to be called "General Ed" requirements. They were called Liberal Ed requirements in my day. Students should know there was a guy named Socrates whose thinking was important to Western civilization, that there was a Renaissance, a Reformation, and an Enlightenment. Poli Sci majors (I was one) ought to know the thinking (Cicero, Locke) that influenced the American Founders. And so on. Maybe there has been too great an emphasis on "dead white males." If so, add some more diverse streams of thought, but don't dump the ones that are part of who we are as a society. No, not every student will be interested in ITW, but is should not be banned, de-emphasized, or dismissed as undesirable or not worth knowing about. I think it's important for the rising generation (or at least the intellectually inclined among them) to have a sense of who we are and how we got to where we are. They might disagree with what earlier generations said or did, but they should at least know what they said and did and why it's important today.

    That's all!
    I took 3 or 4 courses from Dr. Newell. He was one of the best professors on campus. I believe the ITW program ultimately morphed into the Honors program. My oldest daughter was in that and it gave her a different college experience in completing her lib ed requirements. She and about 50 others in her freshman class were admitted into the program and they took a curriculum taught by a variety of professors. Dr. Newell was one of the professors. The classes were structured for 25 students so you did not have those big auditorium classes.
    I ran into Dr. Newell at a hamburger shop in Sugar House a few months ago and told him how much I enjoyed his classes. My name is pretty easy to remember and he said that he remembered me, which was kind.

  4. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    Taking a full year of ITW - three quarters - was a highlight of my experience at the U. Unfortunately, I couldn't get into Dr. Newell's class. I took it from Dr. Stephanie Pace. She made an incredible impression and difference in my life - the first teacher to really expect thinking from me. She also insisted on cogent writing. The class mostly kicked my butt as a freshman but it's the best butt-kicking I ever had.
    I think the ITW series was the most valuable experience I had on campus, that and basic design in the Architecture Dept. ITW gave me the experience I missed being in Dr. Scanlon's regular English class.

  5. #275
    Columbia University MFA Students Demand Tuition Refunds

    https://hyperallergic.com/440469/col...tm_campaign=sw

  6. #276
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    This seems to be a very balanced account from the Chronicle of Higher Education. It is certainly thought-provoking.

    How a tiny protest at the U. of Nebraska turned into a proxy war for the future of campus politics

    https://www.chronicle.com/interactiv...te-of-conflict

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This seems to be a very balanced account from the Chronicle of Higher Education. It is certainly thought-provoking.

    How a tiny protest at the U. of Nebraska turned into a proxy war for the future of campus politics

    https://www.chronicle.com/interactiv...te-of-conflict
    Academics is all kinds of messed up.

  8. #278
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Ivy League Students Least Likely to Get Married

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...FdN6YgodpiEJmQ

    Princetonians like to marry one another.

    Although the university is coy about the exact number of Tiger-Tiger marriages, Princeton tour guides are often asked about matrimonial prospects, and sometimes include apocryphal statistics — 50 percent! Maybe 75! — in their patter. With an insular campus social scene, annual reunions and a network of alumni organizations in most major cities, opportunities to find a special someone wearing orange and black are many.

    People care about matrimony for good reason. Society has been profoundly shaped by what academics call assortative mating: the tendency of people to marry others resembling themselves....

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #279
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Homogeneous: The Political Affiliations of Elite Liberal Arts College Faculty

    https://www.nas.org/articles/homogen..._elite_liberal

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #280
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    This is not political, just a very interesting article in the Atlantic:

    The 9.9 Percent Is the New American Aristocracy

    The class divide is already toxic, and is fast becoming unbridgeable. You’re probably part of the problem.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/the-birth-of-a-new-american-aristocracy/559130/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #281
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Video worth watching:

    Universities, Education, and Free Expression

    Over the last several years, the debate over free speech on college and university campuses has become the dominant issue facing higher education. Reports of the implementation of university speech codes and trigger warning policies, commencement speaker "dis-invitations," and protests, many of them violent, over the views expressed by faculty or invited speakers have ignited fierce controversy from both the right and the left.

    Robert J. Zimmer, Ph.D., President of The University of Chicago, has emerged as a leading voice advocating for the freedom of speech and academic freedom on college and university campuses. In 2015, The University of Chicago released its "Report of the Committee on the Free of Expression" arguing that the "fundamental commitment is to the principle that debate or deliberation may not be suppressed because the ideas put forth are thought by some or even by most members of the University community to be offensive, unwise, immoral, or wrong-headed." This report, now known as "the Chicago Statement," has been adopted by 35 colleges and universities.

    In October 2017, The New York Times penned an op-ed praising Zimmer's efforts and calling him "the most essential voice in American academia today." Earlier this year, a Wall Street Journal op-ed dubbed The University of Chicago "the free-speech university."

    Join us as President Zimmer shares his thoughts on the continuing war of words facing college and university campuses.
    https://www.cityclub.org/forums/2018...ree-expression

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  12. #282
    Looks like BYU Provo campus is sending out acceptance/reject letters this week.

    Good Night -- BYU parents are the Dance Moms of the LDS Church.

    I get why parents want the dirt cheap tuition. I also get that you want your kid to love the same school as you. I think those two statements are universally true.

    But I don't know of a larger disconnect between the quality of education and the difficulty of acceptance than BYU. I mean its a fine school, no doubt, but, it isn't world class or am I totally out of touch with how elite it's perceived to employers & graduate programs.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  13. #283
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    Looks like BYU Provo campus is sending out acceptance/reject letters this week.

    Good Night -- BYU parents are the Dance Moms of the LDS Church.

    I get why parents want the dirt cheap tuition. I also get that you want your kid to love the same school as you. I think those two statements are universally true.

    But I don't know of a larger disconnect between the quality of education and the difficulty of acceptance than BYU. I mean its a fine school, no doubt, but, it isn't world class or am I totally out of touch with how elite it's perceived to employers & graduate programs.
    It is hard to be accepted there because lots of LDS kids want to attend for the reasons you state. I think one can get an excellent education there, but I smile to myself every time I hear people say it's the Harvard of the West.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 02-16-2019 at 11:53 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    It is hard to be accepted there because lots of LDS kids want to attend for the reasons you state. I think one can get an excellent education there, but I smile to myself every time I hear people say it's the Harvard of the West.
    There is no school in the country where there is as big of a gulf between the academic quality of the student body and caliber of education. Of course, that is not at all surprising given BYU's unique draws (cheap, "safe," and lots of "social opportunities") as well as the limitations it faces in attracting top-shelf faculty.
    Last edited by Scratch; 02-18-2019 at 04:22 PM.

  15. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    There is no school in the country where there is as big of a gulf between the academic quality of the student body and caliber of education. Of course, that is not at all surprising given BYU's unique draws (cheap, "safe," and lots of "social opportunities) as well as the limitations it faces in attracting top-shelf faculty.
    I had never thought of that, but that is really true. BYU has also come into this elite school status in really just the last two decades - when I was college age it was not that hard to get into. After all I was accepted.

  16. #286
    The college admissions bribery scandal this morning is amazing.

    I have one question, though. If Stanford has the same admission standards for athletes that is has for other students, how did posing as recruits help these kids get admitted?

    We have serious problems in this nation with how we view elite universities. Part of my platform is to reduce research funding and financial aid to private schools and to invest that money in public universities.

  17. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    If Stanford has the same admission standards for athletes that is has for other students, how did posing as recruits help these kids get admitted?
    It doesn't. Its standards for athletes are significantly lower, but still much higher than the NCAA minimums.

  18. #288
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Interesting take from Harvard grad Ross Douthat:


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  19. #289
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Higher Education Thread

    “It’s $75,000 to get any test scores you would like to get on the SAT or ACT.”

    The 33 parents charged:

    *****

    Greg Abbott is the founder of International Dispensing Corp., a food and beverage packaging company. He and his wife, Marcia Abbott, live in New York City and Aspen, Colo.

    Gamal Abdelaziz is a former senior executive of a resort and casino operator in Macau. He is a longtime executive of the gaming and hospitality industry, including a stint at Wynn Resorts Development.

    Diane Blake is an executive at a retail merchandising firm, and Todd Blake is an entrepreneur and investor.

    Jane Buckingham of Beverly Hills, Calif., is the chief executive of a boutique marketing company based in Los Angeles.

    Gordon Caplan is a private-equity lawyer and co-chairman at Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP, an international law firm based in New York.

    I-Hsin “Joey” Chen, a resident of Newport Beach, Calif. operates a provider of warehousing and related services for the shipping industry. Prosecution documents also spell his name as I-Hsien Chen.

    Gregory Colburn is a physician and lives in Palo Alto, Calif., with his wife, Amy Colburn.

    Robert Flaxman, a resident of Beverly Hills, Calif., is the founder and CEO of a real-estate development firm in Southern California.

    Manuel Henriquez is the founder, chairman and CEO of a publicly traded specialty finance company. He and his wife, Elizabeth Henriquez, live in Atherton, Calif.

    Douglas Hodge spent 28 years at bond-investing giant Pacific Investment Management Co. in Newport Beach, Calif., and became chief executive in early 2014. He retired at the end of 2017. Mr. Hodge said he planned to defend himself against the charges and declined further comment.

    Felicity Huffman, an actress, is best known for her role in the “Desperate Housewives” television series and the 2005 movie “Transamerica.” Ms. Huffman is married to actor William H. Macy, who wasn’t named in the case.

    Agustin Huneeus Jr. is an owner of vineyards in Napa, Calif., and elsewhere.

    Bruce and Davina Isackson; Mr. Isackson is president of a real-estate development firm in California.

    Michelle Janavs is a former executive of a large food manufacturer formerly owned by members of her family.

    Elisabeth Kimmel of Las Vegas is the owner and president of a media company.

    Marjorie Klapper of Menlo Park, Calif., is a co-owner of a jewelry business.

    Lori Loughlin is an actress known for her role on the ABC sitcom “Full House.” A publicist for the 54-year-old actress declined to comment. Ms. Loughlin’s husband, fashion designer Mossimo Giannulli, was also charged.

    Toby MacFarlane of Del Mar, Calif., is a former senior executive at a title-insurance company.

    Bill McGlashan is the founder and managing partner of TPG Growth, the arm of the private-equity firm that invests in fast-growing companies including Airbnb Inc. and Uber Technologies Inc. Mr. McGlashan is also the co-founder of TPG’s Rise Fund, which is focused on socially and environmentally responsible investing. TPG said it placed Mr. McGlashan on indefinite administrative leave, effective immediately.

    Marci Palatella is CEO of a liquor-distribution company in Burlingame, Calif., and owner of a Kentucky distillery. Ms. Palatella is married to Lou Palatella, who played for the San Francisco 49ers in the 1950s.

    Peter Jan Sartorio is a packaged-food entrepreneur and founder of Elena’s Foods in the San Francisco area.

    Stephen Semprevivo is chief strategy and growth officer at Cydcor, a provider of outsourced sales services, according to his LinkedIn profile. He previously was general manager of Machinima, a once-popular digital content network bought by Warner Bros. and shuttered earlier this year.

    David Sidoo is chief executive of Vancouver-based Advantage Lithium Corp. and East West Petroleum Corp., according the companies’ websites. A lawyer for Mr. Sidoo said in a statement the charge against his client carries the presumption of innocence. “We look forward to presenting our case in court, and ask that people don’t rush to judgment in the meantime,” Richard Schonfeld, the lawyer, said.

    Devin Sloane is the founder and CEO of aquaTECTURE, a Los Angeles-based company that invests in water-treatment systems and technology. He has served as a trustee on the board of the Buckley School, a private K-12 school in Los Angeles.

    John B. Wilson is the founder and CEO of a private-equity and real-estate development firm in Massachusetts.

    Homayoun Zadeh who lives in Calabasas, Calif., is an associate professor of dentistry.

    Robert Zangrillo of Miami, Fla., is the founder and CEO of a private investment firm.

    Corrections & Amplifications
    Bruce Isackson is president of a real-estate investment firm. An earlier version of this article misspelled Mr. Isackson’s name as Isaackson in one reference.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/who-are...443487?mod=mhp
    Last edited by LA Ute; 03-13-2019 at 06:57 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #290
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Other LA College Cheating Scandal — The One You Might Have Missed


    Excerpt:

    UCLA is at the center of a cheating scandal that federal authorities say involved former and current students impersonating dozens of Chinese nationals who needed good scores on English tests to get into college in the U.S.

    The six defendants, five with ties to UCLA, allegedly used fake passports, doctored with their own photos, to pass themselves off as the Chinese nationals at testing centers in and around Los Angeles as recently as 2016.

    They were paid about $400 to $1,000 each time they sat for an exam, said
    Special Assistant U.S. Attorney Kyle Ryan. [Compared to $10,000 to $75,000 allegedly charged per test in that other college cheating scandal that broke this week.]

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  21. #291
    Interesting... When I worked at the Program in Biomedical Sciences we got 800 applications from Chinese students each year with perfect scores on the GRE. Keep in mind you had to take those tests in English. inevitably we would interview 10 of the students and maybe half could actually speak English. Everyone knows they are cheating.
    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

  22. #292
    This is our best and brightest entering the field of journalism? Ugh...….


    https://dailynorthwestern.com/2019/11/10/lateststories/addressing-the-dailys-coverage-of-sessions-protests/
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

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