Geez. Well said. It's depressing, but dead on. (Nevill, not Macbeth skin tag.)
I agree with you on this, but I also think Fountain hit it on the head with Utah fans knowing that recruiting the big time players was/is simply not a reality here. We love the Chris Hill/Rick Majerus/Kyle Whittingham ability to find and/or develop a diamond in a rough. Think of Utah's most beloved players... Alex Jensen and Morgan Scalley.
Now as for the groaning at ESA, it was audible, but it also probably had to do with the fact that Wich St. first game could have quite possibly been one of the worst NCAA tournament games I have had the displeasure of sitting through. Both teams played awful in that game and it felt more like a game where the winner was the team that sucked the least.
Of course Wich St redeemed itself over and over again after that, but I think the Ute fans in attendance were thinking, "We've seen this stuff before and it sucks..."
I wish I could add to Senioritis's analysis of 'South Pacific', but I'm more of a 'Cats' man myself.
I don't agree with this at all. If the Utes were able to recruit Jabari, win 30 games with him taking 30 shots a night ala Jimmer, the Huntsman Center would be a lot more packed than it was last year. We are just as fickle as any fanbase...we just want wins, whether it comes from Allen Iverson or a fantastic team playing great team basketball.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I can't believe this debate has gone on this long. STOP IT! Jim Boylen was a complete knave and a fool, a total POS. He failed at every level of coaching. He couldn't even keep a team manned year to year. Kodiak has at least done that. Boylen teams played like they were on the playground. He thought the secret to success was manipulating the press and message boards including by giving free food and beer to fans. He represents nightmare years of Utah basketball, he's the worst thing that's ever happened to Utah athletics. Just look at the wreckage he left behind. I always thought he was a complete bufoon, an idiot. Then he showed he was worse than that when he worked behind the scenes to get O'Brien et al. to transfer after he was fired. I loath Jim Boylen. You all should too. You're way too kind.
Kill this thread, please.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
I have never met a Ute fan who complains about style when we win or who would take 18 wins the right way. If you can find me one, id LOVE to meet them. I don't think that attitude exists, and if it does, its in VERY small doses.
The only time I ever complain about a playing "Style" is when we are playing selfish, individual oriented-basketball and we lose. (see '09-'10 we had ONE guy who averaged more than 1.25 assists per game!!!!!!! Thats pitiful!)
Id also be complaining if our team was full of felons or bozos (ala Marshall Henderson) even if we were winning. I dont ask that we fill the team with choir boys, but I do want our team to be smiled on and something that the whole community can get behind.
There were several fans who didn't want Dave Rose during our last coaching search because his teams didn't play defense. Never mind that they win 20 games every year and play an exciting brand of basketball -- Rose was a bad fit because he couldn't get the consensus POY to play like Drew Hansen (Disclaimer: That remark is in no way meant to be a slight against Drew, one of my all-time favorite unsung players. But even Drew would admit you wouldn't win many games if you had 12 of him on your roster).
You want to see evidence of those who prefer style over results -- just watch until our next head coaching search.
That can work in the MWC, but we'll never equal our past feats in the MWC with that mentality in the Pac-12. And most of what endeared us so much to Alex and Morgan is that they were big winners. Think we hold Alex in such high esteem if he never plays on a team that makes it past the round of 32?
Like I said in another thread about Utah hoops, we're not capable of doing anything outrageous and that's why success in our new league will be very hard to come by. We're not only fine with maintaining the status quo as far as we're perceived on the recruiting trail, we embrace it, and UCLA, Oregon and Arizona are more than happy that we're content in not being a threat to them for recruits. The funny thing is, we've long maintained that BYU could never achieve the heights in basketball that Utah has because our pool is much bigger. Now that we've gone close to a decade with mediocre results, it's because our recruiting pool is smaller? What gives?
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
There's the first notch for "Skeptics" in the category of "Is Dave Rose a good coach?" Really now ...
I'm sure Rose didn't hold Jimmer out of defensive slide drills, or tell him not to worry about being a matador on defense. But if there ever was a player to totally excuse on defense, it would be the guy who sells out arenas, averages 28 PPG and can get to the line at will and shoot 90 percent from there to boot.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
It was. Jimmer goes against my belief that elite scorers have the athleticism to be, at worst, average defenders. At the same time, Rose was smart not to waste practice time in trying to turn Jimmer into something he isn't. I doubt either side wanted those kinds of defensive results, but sometimes you gotta make do with what you've got, and I credit Rose for realizing that sooner than other coaches might have done.
I will remove the notch for you in the Skeptics category and put it in its appropriate place (where I knew it belonged all along).
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Boylen is the head man (non-interim) with the Bulls. The Chicago Bulls!!!!!
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1069606433237491712
"Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum
"And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...gressive-style
Trouble in paradise. Who could have seen this coming?
"Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum
"And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla