Revenge ...

[Scorcho]

I won't bore you with the details, but there have been three instances in my life where I was faced with a decision of whether to seek revenge (of the non-violent getting even variety) or not? There have been other minor incidents, but three that I considered were intentionally meant to cause me personal harm.


Once, as a teenager I opted for vengeance and have always regretted the turmoil I caused with that decision. However, I do believe long-term there was some benefit for the action I took. Another time, in my 20's I decided to try turning the other cheek and opted for the long-suffering forgiving option and to not seek any vengeance. To be honest, I have struggled with that decision as well, and probably will for the rest of my life. This one still stings, even though I have made this decision and have stuck with it. The third instance happened to me about 6 months ago and I haven't decided what to do? I am debating on whether to just let it go or pursue it further. I honestly think, I have chosen poorly the previous two times, and want to make a better choice, if that's even possible.


Besides getting a good look at what may be my severely warped psychosis (by bringing up this topic) , I know we've all had instances like this, and I'm looking for any free advice. I'm in need of some revenge advice. My wife likes to quote, that “the best revenge is living well.” I love that quote and do believe there is a lot of truth to that. I'm LDS and I know LDS Doctrine for the most part frowns on seeking revenge of any type. The Scriptures clearly talk about forgiving over and over again, and Christ's example suggest that is normally the best course of action, and I agree with that. However, I do believe there are certainly instances when turning the other cheek isn't the correct course of action.


What do you think about revenge? Is there ever a time when it's acceptable?

[Sullyute]

According to the scriptures God loves revenge or vengence. I think that each situation is different and there may be an occasion when a person needs their comeuppance and you are the one to give it. However I think that the majority of the time your wife's advice is probably the best.

[GarthUte]

One man's vengeance is another man's justice.

I say kick some ass, either figuratively or literally.

[Sullyute]

Funny, I just watched "The Prestige" for the first time right before you posted this. It's a bad movie...

Bad movie?! David Bowie as Nikola Tesla was pure genius!

[Jarid in Cedar]

Well, maybe bad was too harsh. Not great? David Bowie is always a good casting decision. Best part of the film, along with Michael Caine's accent.

It's hard to really love a movie without a protagonist. Who am I supposed to root for in that film?

Which is why i loved it. I cheer for evil, and evil definitely won in that movie.

[LA Ute]

Which is why i loved it. I cheer for evil, and evil definitely won in that movie.

Well, there goes your Marcus Welby, M.D. image. I'm crestfallen.

[Scorcho]

LastplotRevenge-LRG.jpg

I decided to give myself time to get over this. I could have reacted immediately, but felt that was to hasty. And in my own experience, I've always made better decisions when being more cautious. It's been nearly 6 months since this event happened to me, and I still feel intense anguish over it, I've had recurring bad dreams about it, and lots and lots of angst. I almost feel like I need to react and do something simply to put it in my rear-view mirror.

[LA Ute]

This can be very difficult. I remember once, about 15 years ago, when I was really shafted by one of my law partners. What he did was unbelievably over the top. A few days later I found myself unable to sleep because I was brooding about the whole episode and enumerating in my mind the many ways in which I had been wronged. Then it hit me: While I was awake and anguishing, my wrongdoer was probably sleeping like a baby. So I resolved to go to sleep myself, and I did. It wasn't as easy as just dropping the matter, but over a little time I got over it.

The postscript to that episode was that the individual in question dropped dead of a heart attack a couple of years later. Having moved on, I willingly attended his funeral. I felt bad for his widow (a friend of mine) and his little girl, who was only 6 years old. (He had her at age 65.) Then I listened, fascinated, as every single speaker at the funeral said something along the lines of "I know Fred (not his name) often came across as a difficult person, was a little rough on people from time to time, and was a hard person to like sometimes, but those of us who really knew him knew that wasn't who he really was."

I came home from the funeral and asked my wife to remind me often that I should live my life so that at my funeral, people don't have to make excuses for me.

Anyway, I hope that helps. It has always been an important life lesson for me. It is not easy to let go of serious hurts but it is best to try, emotionally, physically, and spiritually. At least that is how it's been for me.

[Sullyute]

Insightful story LA. Thanks for sharing.

[jrj84105]

"I know Fred (not his name) often came across as a difficult person, was a little rough on people from time to time, and was a hard person to like sometimes, but those of us who really knew him knew that wasn't who he really was."

I came home from the funeral and asked my wife to remind me often that I should live my life so that at my funeral, people don't have to make excuses for me.
.

I had better start replacing the paper in the printer, stop taking peoples' pens, and stop coming to work sick or I'll be in the same boat. Or maybe I'll just try harder not to die.

[LA Ute]

I had better start replacing the paper in the printer, stop taking peoples' pens, and stop coming to work sick or I'll be in the same boat. Or maybe I'll just try harder not to die.

There's still time to change your ways, jrj.

[Ma'ake]

I used to debate the death penalty a lot, and asserted that ultimately, with our ability to incarcerate people, execution just amounts to revenge.

There are many instances of revenge in the animal kingdom. There was a group of monkeys that were crossing a well-travelled highway in Saudi Arabia, and one of the monkeys was hit by a car and killed. The guy driving the car went on to his destination in a different city. Something like THREE WEEKS later he was returning on the same highway, and the monkeys had set up an ambush and pelted his car with rocks.

First of all, it's impressive these monkeys were organized enough and intelligent enough to spot out the exact car involved in the death of their family member, but it also points out that revenge is in our genes. Have you ever seen a hawk being hassled by other birds? I saw a Kestrel snatch a baby swallow from its nest and take it off to feast on, and several of the other swallows were pestering it like crazy. Revenge.

Theologically, many religions teach that we need to overcome our biological limitations, such as lust. It seems to me revenge is right up there, and if you're LDS you believe in eternal progression, so the sooner you can overcome your base biological impulses for revenge, the better.

Certainly there are many examples of humans who've been able to find peace and avoid revenge. Gandhi, Mandela, etc.

It's said that forgiveness is more beneficial for the forgiver than for the forgived. You know it can't be good for your health. Letting it go is easier said than done, like a whole lot of other things in life.

[Rocker Ute]

The best revenge isn't living well, although it is probably second, the best revenge is a scenario where your enemy ends up paying you money, speaking from experience.

I had a rotten ex employer (and this may be the understatement of the year) who ended up needing to use the service we provide. I had never burned any bridges with them and always maintained professionalism with them, so they probably never realized how much I disliked them. However the check each month from them was particularly enjoyed.

Anyway, point being because I never sought revenge, revenge found itself in a way better than I would have come up with myself.

[LA Ute]

The best revenge isn't living well, although it is probably second, the best revenge is a scenario where your enemy ends up paying you money, speaking from experience.

I had a rotten ex employer (and this may be the understatement of the year) who ended up needing to use the service we provide. I had never burned any bridges with them and always maintained professionalism with them, so they probably never realized how much I disliked them. However the check each month from them was particularly enjoyed.

Anyway, point being because I never sought revenge, revenge found itself in a way better than I would have come up with myself.

I call those situations "the karma train coming into the station."

[LA Ute]

I saw this and thought of this thread.

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[Scorcho]

After giving this time, thought and prayer I’ve decided (for now) not to pursue a course of action of revenge. This has been a harrowing decision for me, but in a strange way I feel like I have been blessed for coming to this decision. There are still moments when it tears at me, but those instances are occurring less and less. I am simply going to put this in the Lord’s Lap and let the Atonement work its magic and submit to a little long-term suffering.

Damn, I hate the principle of long-term suffering.

[LA Ute]

After giving this time, thought and prayer I’ve decided (for now) not to pursue a course of action of revenge. This has been a harrowing decision for me, but in a strange way I feel like I have been blessed for coming to this decision. There are still moments when it tears at me, but those instances are occurring less and less. I am simply going to put this in the Lord’s Lap and let the Atonement work its magic and submit to a little long-term suffering.

Damn, I hate the principle of long-term suffering.

I'll wager that at some future time you'll be very glad you did this and will be able to share the experience with someone who will really benefit from your counsel.

[Scorcho]

apparently I am going to keep this thread alive as some sort of personal revenge journal (my apologies in advance for having a peak into my brain).

it's been over a year since the incident and I still struggle with moments of spite and anger. It seems to come in waves where I don't think about it for a few weeks and then the next few it occupies my mind and dreams to a greater degree. I had an incredible dream where I was able to extract full revenge. It was so satisfying. To date, I have done nothing and probably never will.

:/

[LA Ute]

apparently I am going to keep this thread alive as some sort of personal revenge journal (my apologies in advance for having a peak into my brain).

it's been over a year since the incident and I still struggle with moments of spite and anger. It seems to come in waves where I don't think about it for a few weeks and then the next few it occupies my mind and dreams to a greater degree. I had an incredible dream where I was able to extract full revenge. It was so satisfying. To date, I have done nothing and probably never will.

:/

We're all human beings. It takes a while to put these things away. Sometimes we are just not ready to do that, and won't be until life has taught us a few things. About 5 years ago one of the closest colleagues and friends I've ever had turned on me, and only in the last 6 months or so have the pain, anger and disappointment from that event and its aftermath begun to fade -- and like you, I worked hard to make them go away. It just took time. Hang in there. It gets better. I've personally found a lot of meaning in this little vignette from Michael Wilcox:

http://seek.deseretbook.com/s-michae...places-heart/i

Maybe you'll see something in it too.

[USS Utah]

Thinking about revenge? Read a biography of Adolph Hitler.

[LA Ute]

Thinking about revenge? Read a biography of Adolph Hitler.

I'm not seeing the relevance to scorcho's concern here.

[USS Utah]

I'm not seeing the relevance to scorcho's concern here.

I was going to say read Mein Kampf, but that probably wouldn't have been any more relevant.

The worst things that happen to us are usually the things we do to ourselves, with carrying grudges heading the list.

The best thing to do is to let it go -- or never pick it up -- and seek peace of mind.

[LA Ute]

The best thing to do is to let it go -- or never pick it up -- and seek peace of mind.

Absolutely true. Sometimes doing so takes a little time and is not easy.

[Scorcho]

Absolutely true. Sometimes doing so takes a little time and is not easy.

One of my frustrations is that I constantly hear of people forgiving immediately in circumstances that are far more serious than mine. I can’t help but feel a little baffled at how they reached that level so quickly, or if they are bending the truth a little (that’s probably not fair to judge since I’m not in their shoes).

There’s the story of the Sandy Hook Couple who lost a child that days after the incident expressed how they had already forgiven the shooter, or the gentleman that lost 4 members of his family to a drunk driving accident that appeared to come to terms with the teenage driver pretty quickly (LDS Video).

I’m certainly not trying to compare my situation to theirs, I just wish I could put aside this gnawing situation and put it behind me. And I’m beginning to despise these immediate forgiveness stories, because that’s not my reality (and I don’t think they are most human’s experience).

[LA Ute]

You'll know when you are ready. In the words of Neal A. Maxwell, only God can compare crosses.

[USS Utah]

One of my frustrations is that I constantly hear of people forgiving immediately in circumstances that are far more serious than mine. I can’t help but feel a little baffled at how they reached that level so quickly, or if they are bending the truth a little (that’s probably not fair to judge since I’m not in their shoes).

There’s the story of the Sandy Hook Couple who lost a child that days after the incident expressed how they had already forgiven the shooter, or the gentleman that lost 4 members of his family to a drunk driving accident that appeared to come to terms with the teenage driver pretty quickly (LDS Video).

I’m certainly not trying to compare my situation to theirs, I just wish I could put aside this gnawing situation and put it behind me. And I’m beginning to despise these immediate forgiveness stories, because that’s not my reality (and I don’t think they are most human’s experience).

I'm not going to argue that it is easy, only that it is possible. Remember, a journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step. Don't let "easier said than done" stop you from taking that first step.

[mUUser]

You'll get there. Try not to compound the hurt with a heaping plate of guilt. Cut yourself a bit of a break....time and distance will eventually heal.

[Utah]

I don't know if this helps or not, but there is a difference between revenge and standing up for one's self.

[USS Utah]

[Scorcho]

I found out from a mutual acquaintance yesterday that karma has finally caught up to one of the bastards that did me wrong. I won't lie was a nice moment of peace and a little satisfaction knowing that he is/will suffer.