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Thread: The Utah Basketball Rebuild Project Thread: 2013 and after

  1. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by snafu View Post
    One concern I have with this staff is that they appear to be ignoring talent right from our own backyard. Maybe ignoring is not the right word but I see local kids like Yoeli Childs, McEwen, Jake Lindsay going elsewhere with seemingly little interest from Utah. Was Collette even on our radar coming out of high school?
    I can't disagree with your overall point, but I'll just say that they did not ignore Jake Lindsay. From what I understand he was a top priority but he ultimately chose his dad's alma mater over the local school. (Let's hope Nico Mannion has a similar thought process!).

    I always wanted Utah to offer McEwen but that was the same cycle they were trying to get Frank Jackson. Utah chased Jackson (and Markannan, Tillie, etc) to the bitter end and failed to do an adequate job of securing backup options such as McEwen and Childs. During that time I tweeted that Utah should offer McEwen as an alternative to Jackson, who was a longshot the second Duke offered. McEwen "liked" that tweet, which I took to mean that he wanted a Utah offer and would have likely committed.

    I'm not sure how big of a miss Collette was. On the one hand, we saw him become a solid post scorer in the PAC 12. On the other hand he was pretty one dimensional and struggled with longer, more athletic bigs that were more common in the PAC 12. I feel like he's guy who maximized his talent, but I can see why Utah would have initially taken a pass on him.

  2. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by UBlender View Post
    I can't disagree with your overall point, but I'll just say that they did not ignore Jake Lindsay. From what I understand he was a top priority but he ultimately chose his dad's alma mater over the local school. (Let's hope Nico Mannion has a similar thought process!).

    I always wanted Utah to offer McEwen but that was the same cycle they were trying to get Frank Jackson. Utah chased Jackson (and Markannan, Tillie, etc) to the bitter end and failed to do an adequate job of securing backup options such as McEwen and Childs. During that time I tweeted that Utah should offer McEwen as an alternative to Jackson, who was a longshot the second Duke offered. McEwen "liked" that tweet, which I took to mean that he wanted a Utah offer and would have likely committed.

    I'm not sure how big of a miss Collette was. On the one hand, we saw him become a solid post scorer in the PAC 12. On the other hand he was pretty one dimensional and struggled with longer, more athletic bigs that were more common in the PAC 12. I feel like he's guy who maximized his talent, but I can see why Utah would have initially taken a pass on him.
    Collette was also finishing up his senior year at Murray when Larry got the job. It was too late even if we were interested.

  3. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by snafu View Post
    One concern I have with this staff is that they appear to be ignoring talent right from our own backyard. Maybe ignoring is not the right word but I see local kids like Yoeli Childs, McEwen, Jake Lindsay going elsewhere with seemingly little interest from Utah. Was Collette even on our radar coming out of high school?
    We just started 3 guys from utah

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  4. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I agree he had an impressive record with this church ball team. My objection is that he has a church ball team. He doesn’t seem to have a continuous program right now. He needs to rely less on transfers and more on recruits who come as freshmen. The top two ranked teams in the country don’t have ones and dones, so it’s possible to compete with the Arizonas by recruiting guys who stay four years. Oregon is an example. We’ve had rental teams. Lots of fifth year players, JUCOS and other transfers. Also, there are some tendencies that are a problem, like his almost complete inability to beat Altman or Arizona, the NCAA tournament drought, and the way his teams just treat the NIT like a vacation.

    We’re Utah, and there are a lot of explanations available for these problems. What we need is a coach who figures out how to work around the challenges or even turn them to his advantage. There are other coaches who can get us to the glass ceiling and leave us blaming the glass ceiling for the lack of exceptional seasons. We need one who breaks through, like has happened at Virginia and Villanova.

    You aren't paying attention to college basketball. Kids aren't staying. And, if the NCAA actually changes the rule about having to sit out a year, more kids will transfer. Oregon has a bunch of transfer, graduate transfer, JC guys. That's basketball today. You have to figure out how to make it work.

    Ironically, we have no problem with Whit's success in the PAC 12, but many here (like you) criticize K for similar success.

    My biggest problem with this program right now is their scheduling. It's influenced too much by the Stew Morrill/Rick Majerus approach. Those days are gone. Upgrade the godammned preseason schedule now.

  5. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
    We just started 3 guys from utah

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    We missed big-time on Yeoli Childs. He's the difference this year between us going to the NCAAs vs the NIT. He' would be a terrific segue way from the seniors to the new class we are getting next year.Moreover, local kids are more likely to stay more years. Bad, bad miss on that one.

  6. #456
    Senior Member justaute's Avatar
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    Not only Childs, but also am wondering what happened with Mawien.

    Not sure how good Mawien or the type of student/person he is, even though he seemed to have played well as of late for Kansas State. Assuming he wasn't a problem off the court, why would the staff keep a player like Jokl and not being patient and developing Mawien? Not that it matters now, but just curious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    We missed big-time on Yeoli Childs. He's the difference this year between us going to the NCAAs vs the NIT. He' would be a terrific segue way from the seniors to the new class we are getting next year.Moreover, local kids are more likely to stay more years. Bad, bad miss on that one.

  7. #457
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    My biggest problem with this program right now is their scheduling. It's influenced too much by the Stew Morrill/Rick Majerus approach. Those days are gone. Upgrade the ********* preseason schedule now.
    Dead on. From what LK is saying lately it sounds like he gets that. I think the focus on "Quadrant 1" is stupid, but it's what the selection committee is doing now. Look at ASU. You win a couple of big games in the per-season and go 8-10 in your conference, and you're still in the Dance. What happened to the "body of work" concept?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    What should the expectations be for Utah basketball regarding making the NCAA Tournament?
    I think of it in five-year cycles, or two cycles in a decade if you prefer.
    1 year in five: no NIT/NCAA tourney; it's a drastic rebuild
    1 year in five: NIT
    3 years in five: NCAA tourney
    Of those three years in the NCAA tourney, at least one of them is a Sweet 16 or deeper run.

    So in a decade, we go Dancing 60% of the time, and we get two Sweet 16s per decade. With our history, our current support, facilities, P5 affiliation, etc., I don't see why this isn't pretty reasonable.

  9. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by justaute View Post
    Not only Childs, but also am wondering what happened with Mawien.

    Not sure how good Mawien or the type of student/person he is, even though he seemed to have played well as of late for Kansas State. Assuming he wasn't a problem off the court, why would the staff keep a player like Jokl and not being patient and developing Mawien? Not that it matters now, but just curious.
    Mawien had issues here that extended beyond the court.

  10. #460
    Senior Member justaute's Avatar
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    Well, if that's the case, then understandable.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    Mawien had issues here that extended beyond the court.

  11. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Dead on. From what LK is saying lately it sounds like he gets that. I think the focus on "Quadrant 1" is stupid, but it's what the selection committee is doing now. Look at ASU. You win a couple of big games in the per-season and go 8-10 in your conference, and you're still in the Dance. What happened to the "body of work" concept?
    Ultimately, I think Q1 is something you hope for, but don't necessarily schedule for. Take Arizona...they went 3-3 against Q1 teams during this year, but only had 2 Q1 opportunities in the non-conference (Texas A&M, Purdue) and they went 1-1. However, they had 4 Q2 opportunities in the non-conference (Went 3-1), and played 2 of those games on the road @UNLV and @New Mexico. They played Alabama at home, and NC State at a neutral site. They also played UCONN at home, which ended up being a Q3 game, but in most years probably isn't. So, in the non-conference, you have 7 of your 12 games as Q1/Q2 opportunities, and then 3 Q4, and 3 that ended up being Q3 (one was a loss to SMU). By the time you get to the league schedule, you've already played some challenging games and you are ready for what the league throws at you...and while it may have been down, it still is not easy to go on the road and win.

    Ultimately, Arizona finished with 17 Q1/Q2 opportunities, and won 11 of those games. They also picked up two more Q1 wins in Vegas over UCLA and USC.

    By comparison, Utah played 2 Q1 games in the non-conference (Butler, BYU), and went 0-2, and played 1 Q2 game in the non-conference and won...so that's 3 opportunities, verses Arizona's 7. Granted, nobody expected UNLV/Ole Miss to be as bad as they were, but again, and I've been beating this drum for a while now...if you know you can play another game and you get 2 in Vegas, then you move heaven and earth to do so. Period. If EWU is a road game, that's a Q2 win.

    Looking at next year, as I did in the other thread...we have 4 neutral site games scheduled, with the potential to get at least one Q1/Q2 win if things fall right for us. BYU will almost certainly be a Q2 game, unless they fall apart, and Missouri will also be a Q1/Q2 game. So right there you've got the potential for 4 games, if things fall your way. I would like to see at least one more true road game, if not two, and see if you can't get some decent home and homes to round out your schedule. The new format will make it so that it behooves both P5 and Mid Major teams to travel more. If you are Utah, you just have to identify what those low-risk/high reward games are, and take care of business in your Q3/Q4 games, unlike Stanford did. If Stanford just wins their Q3/Q4 games with everyone else they have on the schedule, I think they are safely in the tournament.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  12. #462
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    Ultimately, I think Q1 is something you hope for, but don't necessarily schedule for. Take Arizona...they went 3-3 against Q1 teams during this year, but only had 2 Q1 opportunities in the non-conference (Texas A&M, Purdue) and they went 1-1. However, they had 4 Q2 opportunities in the non-conference (Went 3-1), and played 2 of those games on the road @UNLV and @New Mexico. They played Alabama at home, and NC State at a neutral site. They also played UCONN at home, which ended up being a Q3 game, but in most years probably isn't. So, in the non-conference, you have 7 of your 12 games as Q1/Q2 opportunities, and then 3 Q4, and 3 that ended up being Q3 (one was a loss to SMU). By the time you get to the league schedule, you've already played some challenging games and you are ready for what the league throws at you...and while it may have been down, it still is not easy to go on the road and win.

    Ultimately, Arizona finished with 17 Q1/Q2 opportunities, and won 11 of those games. They also picked up two more Q1 wins in Vegas over UCLA and USC.

    By comparison, Utah played 2 Q1 games in the non-conference (Butler, BYU), and went 0-2, and played 1 Q2 game in the non-conference and won...so that's 3 opportunities, verses Arizona's 7. Granted, nobody expected UNLV/Ole Miss to be as bad as they were, but again, and I've been beating this drum for a while now...if you know you can play another game and you get 2 in Vegas, then you move heaven and earth to do so. Period. If EWU is a road game, that's a Q2 win.

    Looking at next year, as I did in the other thread...we have 4 neutral site games scheduled, with the potential to get at least one Q1/Q2 win if things fall right for us. BYU will almost certainly be a Q2 game, unless they fall apart, and Missouri will also be a Q1/Q2 game. So right there you've got the potential for 4 games, if things fall your way. I would like to see at least one more true road game, if not two, and see if you can't get some decent home and homes to round out your schedule. The new format will make it so that it behooves both P5 and Mid Major teams to travel more. If you are Utah, you just have to identify what those low-risk/high reward games are, and take care of business in your Q3/Q4 games, unlike Stanford did. If Stanford just wins their Q3/Q4 games with everyone else they have on the schedule, I think they are safely in the tournament.
    Krystko mentioned in an interview yesterday that they assumed Ole Miss was going to be a Q1 win based on Ole Miss's pre-season hype but that didn't work out

  13. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    Krystko mentioned in an interview yesterday that they assumed Ole Miss was going to be a Q1 win based on Ole Miss's pre-season hype but that didn't work out
    Right, and there's only so much you can do there. Frankly, UNLV looked like world beaters when they took us apart, and took Arizona to overtime. So some of it is just hoping that the teams you play deliver the right results (as Larry also said yesterday). BYU didn't become a Q1 loss until they beat St. Mary's in the WCC tournament. So, even when people were evaluating our resume they were knocking that as a bad loss.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  14. #464
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Here’s a link to LK’s interview on the Bill Riley Show on March 12. Pretty interesting.

    http://api.spreaker.com/download/epi...ak_3_12_18.mp3

    You need the Spreaker app to listen via this link.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    You aren't paying attention to college basketball. Kids aren't staying. And, if the NCAA actually changes the rule about having to sit out a year, more kids will transfer. Oregon has a bunch of transfer, graduate transfer, JC guys. That's basketball today. You have to figure out how to make it work.

    Ironically, we have no problem with Whit's success in the PAC 12, but many here (like you) criticize K for similar success.

    My biggest problem with this program right now is their scheduling. It's influenced too much by the Stew Morrill/Rick Majerus approach. Those days are gone. Upgrade the godammned preseason schedule now.
    Why is the pre-season schedule a problem? It’s obvious that you get more brownie points toward an NCAA bid LOSING to a good team than beating a patsy. This is both a value judgment and a practical decision. The selection committee doesn’t want November and December to be just boring. Programs need to schedule as many competitive games as they can, because, as we’ve seen, some power teams will turn out to be bad teams. If you just schedule as many good teams as possible, you don’t need to make the excuses that we heard from Krystkowiak this year.

    As for Krystkowiak vs. Whit, there’s a chasm between those two. I could write a book on this, but here are a few.

    We can have an honest disagreement about Whit’s system, but at least he has one. We know his recruiting and player development systems, his recruiting priorities that are situational as well as philosophical. We know his preferred game plans. We know his patterns, etc.

    Football Utah has few if any good players transfer. The players seem to like the staff, though the practices are known to be tough.

    Whit’s teams are defense first, which is what Utah needs to be to excel—in football or basketball—history has shown.

    Whit has shown no inability to be competitive with any team in the league. Utah was the first team to beat every opponent after the PAC 12 was formed. The football Utes can beat anyone on a given night in any year.

    The football Utes play hard every game. The basketball Utes have (I hope until now) just treated the NIT as a scrimmage. It’s been embarrassing, and reflects poor character.

    Whit is not a bad game coach. Krystkowiak is a terrible bench coach. We lose more than our share of close games, and in stupid, bizarre ways.

    Whit has given us that season for the ages that we all crave. 2008 arguably was the greatest season of any Utah sports team.
    Last edited by SeattleUte; 03-16-2018 at 12:05 PM.

  16. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post

    As for Krystkowiak vs. Whit, there’s a chasm between those two. I could write a book on this, but here are a few. .

    Last I checked, Whit didn't have to build a program from scratch. Larry did.

  17. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by snafu View Post
    Last I checked, Whit didn't have to build a program from scratch. Larry did.
    Jesus, are you his wife? Is that your best argumen on his behalf? You are leading with your chin there. He’s been at Utah for seven years, an eternity for basketball. In that time he’s worked through rosters like shit th rough a goose.

  18. #468
    Rebuilding a basketball team with the tradition Utah has behind it, the university's resources and the Pac-12 as a league is not difficult. I think Larry's a good coach but let's not go crazy. I would argue Whittingham's transition to competing in the Pac-12 consistently is more difficult just based on the number of players and the importance of depth.

  19. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Jesus, are you his wife? Is that your best argumen on his behalf? You are leading with your chin there. He’s been at Utah for seven years, an eternity for basketball. In that time he’s worked through rosters like shit th rough a goose.
    Not counting his first year, Larry's roster has been at or below national average for transfers every year minus one (admittedly that one year hurt) but you're pushing a false narrative.

  20. #470
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Whit is not a bad game coach. Krystkowiak is a terrible bench coach. We lose more than our share of close games, and in stupid, bizarre ways.
    Did you just insinuate that Whitt doesn't lose close games?

    1. 2018 - USC 28 Utah 27 - Utah was up 21-7 at halftime
    2. 2018 - UW 33 Utah 30 - Huskies score 10 points in less than 2 minutes to win
    3. 2017 - Cal 28 Utah 23 - 1st and goal from the 1 yard line to end the game
    4. 2017 - UW 31- Utah 24 - teams tied in the 4th Quarter
    5. 2017 - Oregon 30 - Utah 28 Carrington's catch in the end zone to win it, unfortunately that's when Carrington played for the Ducks

    if you're writing a book, it would be reduced from 200 pages to 3 after the fact checkers get done with it.

    IMO - there are just too many Utah fans that measure Utah basketball to the Majerus era. In the latest AP top 100 hoops programs since 1949 Utah was ranked #39 just behind Tennessee and just ahead of Minnesota.

    https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball...ams-based-poll

    I get the criticism of Krystko, he has his warts. Based on his recent interview it sounds like scheduling up in OOC is no longer an option but a must. Utah does have too many players transfer out, some of that is out of his control (see Chapman, Maiwen, Daniels) but if you consider the 2 years it took him to resurrect Utah basketball, a year dealing with throat cancer, recruiting in an unfair environment, I think he's done a good not great job. I think he deserves 2 more years to get Utah back to the NCAA's

  21. #471
    Utah fans - maybe all fans - have selective memory issues when it comes to late game heroics/mistakes.

    All teams lose close games, and all losses involve mistakes. Did anyone else see Houston's star guard throw the ball away last week in the championship game against cincy?

  22. #472
    Your disdain for Krystko is warping your brain, SeattleUte. I'm convinced people like you would find a way to bitch and moan about him even if he guided us to a final four.

  23. #473
    The Trib just asked the appropriate question. For C Hill, the answer is yes.

    https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-u...s-he-worth-it/

  24. #474
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I think LK is a solid coach who does things the right way. He has the potential to become a great one. He does have flaws. I don't understand why SU is so down on him. Should LK be fired, SU? With whom would we replace him who would want to coach at Utah?

    Jerry Pimm is the coach you know most about, SU. Here's Pimm's record in his first seven seasons:

    1974-1975 Utah 17-9 7-5 4th
    1975-1976 Utah 19-8 9-5 T-2nd
    1976-1977 Utah 22-7 11-3 1st NCAA Sweet 16
    1977-1978 Utah 23-6 12-2 2nd NCAA Sweet 16
    1978-1979 Utah 20-10 9-3 2nd NCAA 1st Round
    1979-1980 Utah 18-10 10-4 T-2nd
    1980-1981 Utah 25-5 13-3 T-1st NCAA Sweet 16

    Just for perspective, the NCAA tournament didn't expand to 64 teams until 1985, IIRC, so a Sweet 16 run prior to that meant you won your first-round game. Still, Pimm's teams made the tournament 4 out of his first 7 seasons, and that's better than LK has done. Abd Pimm placed first or second in his conference 6 of his 7 seasons. (Won it once, tied for first another time.) But Pimm took over a program that had been run by Jack Gardner, who had been to the Final Four twice in the 12 years before Pimm took over; and then Bill Foster, who moved on to Duke after 3 seasons. Pimm took over a program that had just gone 22-8 and taken 2nd in the NIT. And he coached in the WAC.

    So it's still hard to know where to place LK in the pantheon of Utah coaches. I don't think any other Utah coach in the modern had to take over a dumpster fire like the one LK faced. He does need to keep improving steadily.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 03-17-2018 at 04:12 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #475
    Pimm? You may as well be comparing Walter Johnson to Randy Johnson.

  26. #476
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Pimm? You may as well be comparing Walter Johnson to Randy Johnson.
    Who else is a decent comparison? SU was talking about Utah's tradition. I just chose someone who is part of that tradition and coached for a decent time period in the modern era (and whom SU knew well.) Majerus is not a fair comparison.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  27. #477
    No. I don’t want Krystkowiak to be fired. He doesn’t deserve that. I just don’t think we need him more than he needs us, as has been the case with other Utah coaches. If he leaves, fine. I’ll hope that Hill gets as lucky as he’s been sometimes in the past when he spun that coaching hire roulette wheel. I think that college basketball especially is mostly about the coach. Krystkowiak hasn’t shown me that he has what it takes to make us special again. I want the Utes to be special. I especially feel that way about basketball. I’m not interested in Snafu’s Kissingeresque rationalization about how we are what we are and need to be content with being second tier. I am a lot more philosophical in that regard about football, as I think football is more daunting as to program building, and Utah’s potential downside is steeper and deeper. Spectator sports are about escapism and identity—like religion without the bad stuff. There’s no reason not to hope for celestial glory. We’ve tasted it before, three times, in fact.

  28. #478
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I’ll hope that Hill gets as lucky as he’s been sometimes in the past when he spun that coaching hire roulette wheel.
    If exhibiting graceless malice were a sport, you'd be a gold medalist.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  29. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Pimm? You may as well be comparing Walter Johnson to Randy Johnson.
    You have to go with The Big Train. It's not even close.

  30. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    If exhibiting graceless malice were a sport, you'd be a gold medalist.
    I think you meant graceful. That sentence has metaphor, allusion, imagery. It is poetry.

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