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Thread: The Utah Basketball Rebuild Project Thread: 2013 and after

  1. #481
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Utah Basketball Rebuild Project Thread: 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I think you meant graceful. That sentence has metaphor, allusion, imagery. It is poetry.
    No, I meant graceless. “Petty” might have been better. Then again, if you were simply trolling, “juvenile” is the word.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 03-17-2018 at 08:23 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #482
    LA, Are you really saying that hiring coaches is anything other than a crapshoot if you can’t just go hire an established Urban Meyer?
    Last edited by SeattleUte; 03-17-2018 at 09:05 PM.

  3. #483
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    LA, Are you really saying that hiring coaches is anything other than a crapshoot if you can’t just go hire an established Urban Meyer?
    What on earth makes you think I’m saying that?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    What on earth makes you think I’m saying that?
    Uh, because you got your back up when I likened hiring a coach to spinning a roulette wheel.

  5. #485
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Utah Basketball Rebuild Project Thread: 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Uh, because you got your back up when I likened hiring a coach to spinning a roulette wheel.
    Oh, yes, that’s what people (including me) found eyeroll-inducing about your post. Absolutely.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 03-18-2018 at 01:43 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #486
    So now that the season is officially over, we can start looking forward to 18-19. First, I really enjoyed this team. They performed much better than I anticipated. I really love Bibbins. Too bad we only had him for one year. Looking at next years returners and what players need to do:

    SR. Barefield: Really came on shooting the ball at the end of the year. He needs to be able to do things without the ball and become a better distributor.
    SR. PVD: Find his shooting. He will be who he is, but if he could shoot 40% from three he could be a help off the bench.
    JR. Jayce: Get stronger physically. I thought Jayce made great strides this year and if he does again, I could see him being a 10/10 guy.
    JR. Caldwell: Caldwell gave us some good minutes in some games, but also made a number of errors that resulted in him going back to the bench. I think he can be a 10-12 minute a game guy if he becomes more consistent on offense.
    So. Seeley: Needs to get stronger and develop a 12-15 foot jump shot.
    So. Tillman: Do what Loveridge did after freshman year and work on becoming a threat from 3 point range.
    So. Pop: It was hard for me to tell whether he can play at this level from the amount of time he played.
    Fr. Doutrive: Who knows.

    I don't expect Jokl to be back and would not be surprised to see Pop and/or Seeley go somewhere else if they don't see themselves in the future plans. From everything I have seen, it appears that all of the newcomers have the ability to step in and contribute. It should be a fun year.

  7. #487
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Next season:

    Returning:

    1) Johnson. Good rebounder, alright defender. His hook shot is improving. The great hope: that he can give us 30 minutes of high energy defense and rebounding.

    2) Barefield. The great hope: consistency!

    3) Tillman. Undersized, but unafraid. Can rebound and score in the post. The great hope: improved outside shooting.

    4) PVD. Has improved defensively and plays with energy. The great hope: his 3 point shooting finally comes around.

    5) Seeley. Seems to have a lot of tools but little skill or intensity. The great hope: he turns into a shot blocking, rebounding, high energy lob monster off the bench.

    6) Caldwell. I just don't think he'll get time. The great hope: he'll get time if his shot improves drastically.

    7) Popoola. The great hope: some progress that would indicate he'll be useful in 2020 and 2021. He's on the PVD timeline.

    Incoming:

    1) Jones. Presumably, our starting PG.

    2) Gaskin. Athletic SG.

    3) Battin. Presumably, the starting PF. We need post scoring, and rebounding is always nice.

    4) Allen. SF. I know nothingg about him.

    5) Doutrive. SG.


    6) Thioune. C. Hoping for defense, including shot blocking.

    So, there's the 13. I think to be a tournament team, we need 2-3 of the "great hopes" in returning players to materialize, and we need 2-3 of the new players to really have it. That's certainly possible, but it rests on a lot of unknowns.
    Nice breakdown. I think Allen is someone we can be a little excited about (but then, we were excited about Jayce -- the transition to the D1/PAC-12 level can be hard).

    Timmy Allen, one of the Top 200 recruits nationally in next year’s incoming class, announced that he has committed to play for the University of Utah.

    Allen, a 6-foot-5 wing player out of Red Mountain High School in Mesa, Ariz., posted Monday night on Twitter: “Happy to announce I have committed to the University of Utah.”

    ESPN.com and Scout.com rank Allen a four-star recruit, while 247Sports labels him a three-star recruit and the top player in Arizona.

    https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-u...ah-basketball/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #488
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Thanks. We should probably move this into the rebuild thread.
    Done.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #489
    Great breakdown. We will be young, but talented. That's a great first step.

    Here is another question: I know that Larry likes to schedule down to add up the wins. The football mentality. The bad thing is, unlike football, in basketball you actually need to schedule up to go dancing. BUT, we aren't dancing anyways.

    So, what exactly is the point of scheduling down? Especially when you have your "core" group of guys for the next 2-3 years? I'd think that we'd want to significantly increase the OOC scheduling and see what happens. If we lose 5 OOC games, well, even if we finish third or fourth in the PAC-12, we weren't going dancing anyways.

    But if we win those games, we make the tournament and set ourselves up very nicely for the next 2-3+ years.

    So, why schedule down? What good does it do, other than have us miss the tournament...again.

  10. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    Great breakdown. We will be young, but talented. That's a great first step.

    Here is another question: I know that Larry likes to schedule down to add up the wins. The football mentality. The bad thing is, unlike football, in basketball you actually need to schedule up to go dancing. BUT, we aren't dancing anyways.

    So, what exactly is the point of scheduling down? Especially when you have your "core" group of guys for the next 2-3 years? I'd think that we'd want to significantly increase the OOC scheduling and see what happens. If we lose 5 OOC games, well, even if we finish third or fourth in the PAC-12, we weren't going dancing anyways.

    But if we win those games, we make the tournament and set ourselves up very nicely for the next 2-3+ years.

    So, why schedule down? What good does it do, other than have us miss the tournament...again.
    I'd be kind of surprised if LK schedules down in the future.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    So now that the season is officially over, we can start looking forward to 18-19. First, I really enjoyed this team. They performed much better than I anticipated. I really love Bibbins. Too bad we only had him for one year. Looking at next years returners and what players need to do:

    SR. Barefield: Really came on shooting the ball at the end of the year. He needs to be able to do things without the ball and become a better distributor.
    SR. PVD: Find his shooting. He will be who he is, but if he could shoot 40% from three he could be a help off the bench.
    JR. Jayce: Get stronger physically. I thought Jayce made great strides this year and if he does again, I could see him being a 10/10 guy.
    JR. Caldwell: Caldwell gave us some good minutes in some games, but also made a number of errors that resulted in him going back to the bench. I think he can be a 10-12 minute a game guy if he becomes more consistent on offense.
    So. Seeley: Needs to get stronger and develop a 12-15 foot jump shot.
    So. Tillman: Do what Loveridge did after freshman year and work on becoming a threat from 3 point range.
    So. Pop: It was hard for me to tell whether he can play at this level from the amount of time he played.
    Fr. Doutrive: Who knows.

    I don't expect Jokl to be back and would not be surprised to see Pop and/or Seeley go somewhere else if they don't see themselves in the future plans. From everything I have seen, it appears that all of the newcomers have the ability to step in and contribute. It should be a fun year.
    Everything I hear is that LK is feeding these guys tons of NBA level complexity and schemes, from broadcasters, to Kuzma to Dwayne Casey of the Raptors raving about Delon and Poeltl being so well prepared, etc.

    Some guys are going to struggle with that amount of preparation and complexity, some guys aren't ready to be in the rotation at any given time, etc. This year's team had guys on the bench engaged, ready when their number was called. It was nice to see. Hopefully Caldwell works into a more prominent role, same for Seeley. The biggest X factor for me for next year is Doutrive. Has the body, has been in the system, seems to pay attention during timeouts, has the strong endorsement of a scout who was watching the younger Ball brothers and said Doutrive was the best player on the court (in that game, at least), etc.

    It will be fun to watch.

  12. #492
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    On PVD: He hasn't found his shot in 3 years, it would seem unlikely he'd figure it out now. Especially since he is not a particularly good FT shooter. You can tell a ton about a player's shot potential at the FT line. There's something about his shot that bugs me. It is too herky-jerky. My hopes are not up on this.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    We will probably end up with a 8-9 man rotation.

    Starting: Barefield, Johnson, Jones, Battin, Tillman

    Not in the rotation: Popoola, Caldwell

    That leaves Allen, Doutrive, Gaskin, Thioune, PVD, and Seeley fighting for the remaining 3-4 spots.
    Pvd will Start and play in similar situations like Gabe bealer this year.

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    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

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  14. #494
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #495
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    I’m seriously surprised we landed Gach. I figured he was going to end up at SDSU.

    Have we finally broken the Boylen Jinx? Did him getting to the NBA Finals free is in some metaphysical way?


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  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    I’m seriously surprised we landed Gach. I figured he was going to end up at SDSU.

    Have we finally broken the Boylen Jinx? Did him getting to the NBA Finals free is in some metaphysical way?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Well he hasn’t been there in 3 years so I’m not sure what took so long


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  17. #497
    Timmy Allen was a 4*—best player in AZ. He will get a ton of minutes & may start by year end.

    Also add in transfer from ISU—back up at 5.

  18. #498
    There seems to be a lot of angst among Ute basketball fans about LK and the current state of the program. I am certainly disappointed in where things are today, but I am curious as to the causes for the level of dissatisfaction currently being expressed. From my reading, it appears that the following are the things people are most complaining about: 1. LK's salary - Utes should get more bang for their buck. 2. Transfers of players - Devon Daniels, JoJo Zamora, Makol Mawein, Wright, the skinny kid from Fresno - and whether this means that LK cannot coach certain kids. 3. Not recruiting Joeli Childs. What else

  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    There seems to be a lot of angst among Ute basketball fans about LK and the current state of the program. I am certainly disappointed in where things are today, but I am curious as to the causes for the level of dissatisfaction currently being expressed. From my reading, it appears that the following are the things people are most complaining about: 1. LK's salary - Utes should get more bang for their buck. 2. Transfers of players - Devon Daniels, JoJo Zamora, Makol Mawein, Wright, the skinny kid from Fresno - and whether this means that LK cannot coach certain kids. 3. Not recruiting Joeli Childs. What else
    Style and quality of play. For instance:

    https://twitter.com/100thingsutah/st...949593600?s=21
    The future of the past is now!

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    There seems to be a lot of angst among Ute basketball fans about LK and the current state of the program. I am certainly disappointed in where things are today, but I am curious as to the causes for the level of dissatisfaction currently being expressed. From my reading, it appears that the following are the things people are most complaining about: 1. LK's salary - Utes should get more bang for their buck. 2. Transfers of players - Devon Daniels, JoJo Zamora, Makol Mawein, Wright, the skinny kid from Fresno - and whether this means that LK cannot coach certain kids. 3. Not recruiting Joeli Childs. What else
    Evaluating those critiques: number 1 is absolutely fair. Number 2 is highly overblown. Sure, some have been a bummer but far and away transfers in have been much better than transfers out. If MM was still here, folks would feel the same about him as they do about jj. Number 3 is an obvious take in hindsight. Contrary to what Seattle ute believes in his heart, no one was upset when he went to BYU. Hes a late bloomer. It happens. Frustrating but it happens.

  21. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    There seems to be a lot of angst among Ute basketball fans about LK and the current state of the program. I am certainly disappointed in where things are today, but I am curious as to the causes for the level of dissatisfaction currently being expressed. From my reading, it appears that the following are the things people are most complaining about: 1. LK's salary - Utes should get more bang for their buck. 2. Transfers of players - Devon Daniels, JoJo Zamora, Makol Mawein, Wright, the skinny kid from Fresno - and whether this means that LK cannot coach certain kids. 3. Not recruiting Joeli Childs. What else
    For me, recruiting. Not so much missing out on the Akots and Markennen's, but giving scholies to so many who cant play and have no business being on a D-1 roster. This year, every time I hear that Popoola, Gaskin, Jones cant play, I want to scream. And too many transfers from other D-1 schools, like Bibbins, Barefield, and Zamora. The first two worked out, but the fact that we are relying on those kinds of transfers is telling.

  22. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    Style and quality of play. For instance:

    https://twitter.com/100thingsutah/st...949593600?s=21
    Agree. Every year we hear we have the players to be more up tempo and we never are. Also: end of half and end of game timeouts to run a play that rarely works.
    Last edited by concerned; 12-31-2018 at 11:09 AM.

  23. #503

    The Utah Basketball Rebuild Project Thread: 2013 and after

    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    For me, recruiting. Not so much missing out on the Akots and Markennen's, but giving scholies to so many who cant play and have no business being on a D-1 roster. This year, every time I hear that Popoola, Gaskin, Jones cant play, I want to scream. And too many transfers from other D-1 schools, like Bibbins, Barefield, and Zamora. The first two worked out, but the fact that we are relying on those kinds of transfers is telling.
    The transfer in aspect is one that will continue to be interesting.

    Almost every player on Nevada’s roster transferred in. And a couple of of the players who did not transfer are walk ons.


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    Last edited by Diehard Ute; 12-31-2018 at 02:51 PM.

  24. #504
    Even when we have great talent on the team, we have a knack for being completely unable to inbound the ball. Stupid play to close out games. Silly mistakes that cause losses.
    These are a on the coach. He never seems to adjust to those problems, or at least he hasn't since 2012 or so.

  25. #505
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Even when we have great talent on the team, we have a knack for being completely unable to inbound the ball. Stupid play to close out games. Silly mistakes that cause losses.
    These are a on the coach. He never seems to adjust to those problems, or at least he hasn't since 2012 or so.
    I’ve always wondered why this is a perennial problem. You’re right, it’s on the coach. The momentum-killing timeouts to plan inbounds plays that don’t even come close to working are also head-scratchers — and are repeated and are on the head coach. (Kind of like a perennially mediocre football offense.&#128521

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  26. #506
    This was so evident Saturday. Nevada stayed committed to a man-to-man on inbounds plays. I never saw anything that looked like an inbounds play. I understand just getting it in and running offense against a zone but a baseline out-of-bounds situation cries out for a play - in my opinion.

    I also loved (sarcasm) the timeout with :07 left at the end of the half. The Utes were advancing the ball quickly but Larry jumped up and called timeout. What came of the timeout? A well-guarded three. Sigh.

  27. #507
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    I also loved (sarcasm) the timeout with :07 left at the end of the half. The Utes were advancing the ball quickly but Larry jumped up and called timeout. What came of the timeout? A well-guarded three. Sigh.
    It’s an odd habit with LK — a momentum-killing TO that results in an inbounds play that flops. Remember the UCLA game at home 2-3 years ago? That same scenario arose at the end of a very winnable game, when all the team needed was a drive the hoop that would produce a basket and/or free throws. Instead, after a time out with a few seconds left, the game ended with Kuzma missing on an off-balance hope shot from 25 feet out as time expired.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  28. #508
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Interesting article. Seems to fit here better than anywhere else. I don’t remember David Reichner from the Majerus era:

    Utah basketball: Former guard David Reichner talks about his playing days, life as an assistant coach

    https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...assistant.html

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  29. #509
    David Reichner??

    I loved Big Rick, but Soto has an interesting view of his time—-he was not a fan of practicing on Xmas Day.

    Agreed: in bounds plays & time outs at end of half’s/games drive me crazy.

    Recruiting is a crap shoot—especially when you don’t pay recruits.

  30. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    This is how college basketball works now.

    Why would I care about the coach's salary? I don't pay it.
    LOL. Watch games on TV? Buy tickets to games? Guess what? You're paying Larry's salary.

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