One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
I'm reading a great book on the Chicago Cubs ... "Story of a Curse," by Rich Cohen. Interestingly enough, one of his sources is Doug Plank, who is known for being the 46 (his uniform number) in the great 1985 Chicago Bears Super Bowl winning team's 46 Defense. He lists three kinds of coaches that are hired, and I think his descriptions are ones we're all familiar with with regard to Utah basketball.
The Aspirin Coach: He comes in and feeds you a bunch of baloney that makes you feel good initially, but nothing really changes. There is some immediate improvement, but it's fleeting. I think this fits Jim Boylen to a 'T'. The players he inherited were talented and needed something different than Giacoletti (who, for sake of this exercise, is probably another Aspirin coach as well). I also think Jimmy vowed not to go down that road again with the Bulls, and became another type of coach (more on that later). But when Jimmy's inherited players moved on, he was lost.
The Penicillin Coach: He fixes everything, any problems (like recruiting) or illnesses (in-game strategy, practice habits, etc.). Your truly great coaches are largely these types, and they don't have to adjust their style a whole lot throughout their tenure. Majerus was penicillin on game day, probably my next example in other instances. But penicillin alone doesn't cure cancer, and it's a malady that's common on many teams. That's when you need ...
The Chemo Coach: He comes in, he's the unquestioned Man. Don't like what he's doing? You're gone. He's that powerful (I think Jimmy has tried to transform into a Chemo Coach with the Bulls -- and the NBA is probably the worst place to be that kind of coach). Some great examples of Chemo coaches are Mike Ditka, Bill Parcells and Jimmy Johnson. For the sake of the book, Plank listed Leo Duroucher as one. And I would say Larry Krystkowiak is one, even though it probably wasn't his intent to be one his entire career at Utah. Those that only know how to operate in that fashion aren't built for long-term sustainability.
Here's the problem Larry finds himself in. When he took on the job at Utah, in his mind, maybe the team itself wasn't in need of chemotherapy, but the program was. How many times did we hear in our 5-win season that the culture needed to be changed? As a result, just about everyone tainted by previous staffs had to be let go. Collectively, they weren't cancerous, but individually -- well, Larry couldn't take that chance. It's why everyone but Jason Washburn was either let go or put on a very short leash (Jiggy Watkins comes to mind).
Larry basically had to kill the patient (Utah basketball) in order to save it. I think we're all in agreement on that.
You can do that once, and Larry succeeded wildly at it. Increasing win totals in his first five years, a S16, R32 that was preceded by an NIT bid (that would've been an NCAA year with better non-con scheduling). But what does the Chemo coach do when the patient is healthy? Utah basketball is largely healthy. We've consistently outperformed our predicted finish. We have the practice facility, we're fully entrenched in the Pac-12 and recruiting is pretty good. You don't give chemo to people without cancer -- if they're predisposed to it, there are lifestyle changes and safekeeping that you can undergo to help reduce your risk for getting cancer.
Football and baseball can do well with a one-size-fits-all kind of coach, because of the number of players involved. Also, Baseball also has a farm system, while football is predisposed to shorter playing careers and contracts that aren't guaranteed. The players HAVE to adapt to the coach, not the other way around.
Basketball -- you can only survive so long by being one kind, especially considering the youth of the players and that they have been empowered with more options now than ever before (options that didn't exist under Majerus, for example). Larry needed to be an Aspirin coach with guys like Chapman, Daniels and Hendrix. He needs to be more of a penicillin coach on gamedays. There's rarely any need for him to be a Chemo coach any longer, and I'm afraid that style is the only style his assistants know (especially Connor and Hill).
All coaches have a sell-by date. It's not universally the same. Some lucky ones (like Kyle) largely get to choose that date. Larry has two millstones around his neck right now -- his salary and growing apathy among the fanbase. Majerus started accumulating those late in his career at Utah, too (the Allred incident cannot be emphasized enough in this regard). Sometimes, it's the coach that's the cancer. How he gets to be a cancer has a long list of variables in it. But that's when the AD has to apply the chemo. I don't think we're needing to call in Dr. Harlan yet, not even close.
But the goodwill tank for Larry has been draining for some time. It's not completely empty, but it's nowhere near as full as it was after Delon graduated. He has time to fill it -- as frustrated as we are with this season, I think it's nearly universally understood that he gets this year, next year and probably the year after that. He's getting that time because, as lost as he may be with trying to find his way with this team, the results are still much, much better than what we had in Ray and Jimmy's final two years. He's got to figure it out. I think a shakeup among his assistants would do Larry a world of good this offseason, and a contract restructuring would add significantly to his goodwill tank.
I don't think consecutive year streaks do much to explain fan expectations with relation to program history for two reasons: First, nobody out there is insisting Utah should be making the tournament every year. Second, previous teams would've had longer streaks if they got to play in today's expanded bracket era.
(There's also a third issue -- probation -- that kept your 59-61 example from being four straight NCAA bids instead of three, but I'm only including that here for background.)
I think Jerry Pimm making the Dance 5 times in 7 years is a much more impressive "streak" than any of our 2/3 year streaks you note. Pimm would've had an NIT berth the year prior to that had the NIT not contracted from 16 teams to 12 for one year, so that's 6 postseason bids in 8 years, five of them NCAA. And although the NCAA fields grew in Pimm's era from 32 to 52, it's still far short of today's 68. I think this timeframe best represents the expectations fans have for Utah hoops.
Utah fans have a lot of goodwill for the basketball program and high expections. That is manifest in the exorbitant salary that Hill was able to raise for Krsystkowiak. Before Urban Meyer or Kyle Whittingham, before the Pac 12, while BYU owned us in football, before the Winter Olympics, before Mitt Romney, before the Utah Jazz or the Utah Stars, Runnin Ute basketball is what made people from other bigger market places pay attention to Utah and made Utah special, what put us on the map. It’s a long and beloved tradition that was brought to a high water mark by Majerus. Where Utah basketball is now is a tragedy of cosmic proportions for those who lived through even part of those glory days, and our AD needs to fix this foundering program. Nobody cares about renegotiating the coach’s contract. People want Utah basketball to be the Green Bay Packers of college football again—instead of Gonzaga, Wichita State, Butler, etc.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
It's interesting to see the numbers. I remember these streaks generally but haven't stared them in the eyes.
It's true, we've not put many impressive streaks together lately. I personally feel like Utah should be in the tourney about 3 years out of 5, with one of those visits being S16 or deeper. Also, well before this season started I didn't expect this to be a Dance year (and kinda got killed for that opinion on Twitter). While I knew we'd be breaking in a bunch of young Thorobreds this year, what I didn't see coming was the sad trombone play of the upperclassmen. I think I finally have to admit that I was wrong about Jayce. He's been a bit of a social media pińata, and I've been preaching patience -- that he'd be one of those guys who'd start paying off big in his Jr and Sr years. Oops.
Similarly Van Dyke and Barefield have been inconsistent and Charles Jones and Topalovic have had almost zero impact for a decorated JC and an experienced transfer. Even Tillman - who I still have quite a bit of faith in - hasn't made as big a leap as I thought.
With all of that said, just the addition of a pure and talented point guard (Jones) next year could do WONDERS for our anemic offense woes. And all of these young guys, I think (i.e. hope), will have taken enough hard knocks this year to pay off with success next year. At that point, I just figure that these young guys just keep getting better the next years.
So, yeah, I'm doing some pro-level wishing here regarding NCAA's the next three seasons, but I think we're finally filling the ranks with the kind of talent that can get it done. Question is, can LK keep this group focused, can he keep the fans hopeful and the boosters satisfied, and can he walk the scheduling tightrope just right so that the team gets wins with wins that count (this has been a surprising shortcoming of LK's).
Utah fans are what I assume you mean by "people," right? I'm not sure Utah basketball's appeal spreads much beyond the Beehive State. Majerus's did as a cult of personality, but that left with him to St. Louie.
I think the college basketball world has changed too much, even since Majerus, to think that any of our past success would apply again today. I think our ceiling is higher than we've shown in the last decade, but I'm also not sure what the right formula is to reach bigger and more consistent heights. We have the facilities. We have (at least I THINK we have ) a P5 basketball conference, we have some history, there's some local talent, and plenty of regional talent to recruit here. Just gotta put it all together.
Last edited by FountainOfUte; 01-17-2019 at 04:52 PM.
Your first paragraph is nonsense, I don’t understand it, and I’m sure nobody else does. As for the second paragraph, you must be about 18 years old or suffering from memory loss.
The formula for success at Utah isn’t a mystery. It’s the same for basketball as football, has succeeded for a hundred years, and still works. It’s simply this: 1) a defense first philosophy; 2) totally uncompromising work ethic; 3) a disciplined and patient offense that relies on intelligent choices and appreciates its subordinate role to and reliance on success defending against the opponent’s offense; 4) overwhelming success and willingness to take risks recruiting the very best players in Utah outside of Alpine, Orem, and Provo; 5) patience with and ability to work the mission thing; 6) four-year players who may take a couple of years to become effective the core of the program; 7) consistency in executing these concepts with a long-term commitment to the program.
That’s the formula. It’s not easy. It takes a special coach. And the reason Utah has been failing for well over half of the past 15 years is that our coaches have lacked the character that prior coaches had.
Anytime anyone tries to do it the lazy way, looking for shortuts in Europe or through too much reliance on Jucos or transfers, or an offense that looks like North Carolina’s, disaster ensues. Utah had success before Majerus and even spotty success afterward. If anything, Utah has more ability to succeed now than when it was hidden away in the MWC or WAC.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
You're crazy. Solon's proposal is only sacrificing one football season. And it's for something that predates 2004-2008. We've blown past the 20-year mark since our last Final Four. Has breaking the BCS and thumping Alabama in the Sugar Bowl really reduced boatracing Arizona and beating North Carolina (and leading Kentucky for 30-plus minutes) to something so trifling that we wouldn't take going 1-11 in football to experience it again?
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
How long do you think it takes Utah to recover from a 1 win season in football? Certainly not as quickly as other schools. We aren’t Washington or Stanford, able to lure a big name coach while in the dregs of despair.
Football is king now. A lot of us old timers grew up in an era where basketball was king. But 2004/2008 changed that. The financial implications would be huge. Here are the 2017-2018 financial numbers:
Football
Revenue: $60.2M
Expenses: $29.4M
Basketball
Revenue: $10.5M
Expenses: $9.5M
The long term overall effects of tanking in football, and a long term recovery would not be offset by selling out the Hunts and additional tournament shares.
“To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
This offseason will tell us a lot. Right now, we are playing with 9 scholarship players, with 2 transfers out and 2 redshirts. Of those redshirts, I Wouldn't be surprised to see one of them head to JUCO after this year. With 3 seniors, that gives us 7 returners for next year. Larry needs at least 6 of the 7 and probably all 7 to stick around for continuity's sake. The foundation, as painful as it is this year, is being placed. Now we need to keep building onit.
A one-win season would require a lot of bad luck and fluky circumstances that would largely be limited to a single season. The world didn't end when we went 5-7 in back to back years. Now, if you're talking about a coach in his first year at Utah, I wouldn't make that trade in that season. Yes, that could be disastrous. But a 1-win season would be so against the norm for this program, in so much conflict with everything we have going for it, that every observer would chalk it up as an cosmically tragic aberration, and not something to portend a generational wandering in the desert.
I will say this -- I think there's a segment of Ute fans that are always tamping down expectations, or aren't willing to risk being mediocre for a season or two with a payoff of something truly great. I guarantee you, I could poll 2000 Ute fans with two three-year scenarios, one that includes a playoff spot but a losing year or two, and one of 9 wins for three straight years with no championships of any kind, and at least 25 percent would choose the latter.
Let me also add that if Larry continues with the status quo, he runs the risk of coaching for his job next year. Yes, that sentiment is driven 100 percent by the fact that we have a new AD who is probably having a few "WTF?" moments this year regarding the hoops program. That "year after next year" that I think he gets right now could be gone if there isn't some kind of change, cosmetic or truly difference-making.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
OMG, Utes are playing lights out defense today.
It's like its the late 90's in the Hunty
I listened to the pregame and they mentioned that during this break with no games that the ignored the offense and just focused on defense. CU has 19 points at half and was fortunate to get that many
Everyone check your My Space page because this looks like a Majerus led team today.
Last edited by chrisrenrut; 01-20-2019 at 08:17 PM.
“To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.
When Sed is feeling it, the whole team feeds off of it. Cool to see. Allen seems to get better every game.