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Thread: I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

  1. #3301
    Why would anyone take BYU? They bring some value now, but they are a dying brand. Mormonism is falling big time, loyalty to the Church's school is at an all time low, their fanbase is 64 and older, and their on field product is mediocre. For basketball, they are the third best product in the WCC. That isn't anything impressive.

    Plus, they are a headache on top of all of that. If the MWC could add Gonzaga and St. Mary's, I'm not sure where BYU would fit. They would need another football school to make it work. Unless they left football out of the MWC...but if they did that, what would the point of adding BYU basketball be?

    And who would you add in with BYU? New Mexico St? UTEP? Cal Poly? Eastern Washington? I dunno, I don't see it. I don't see the great value long term that BYU brings. And their short term value is some extra tickets sold and that's about it.

    Recruiting wise, BYU isn't doing too hot as well. According to 247, Boise St was 56, then USF, Toledo, FIU, Tulane, UCF, Houston, Marshall, Western Michigan, Louisiana Tech, then BYU came in at #77. Again, where is the long term optimism?

    BYU might be digging a hole they can't climb out of. If they have another 5-6 win season and miss another bowl or two, then continue to recruit in the 70's, even joining a conference might not do them much good. They will have become so thoroughly mediocre that an 8 win MWC season would qualify for a good season.

    lulz.

  2. #3302
    The MWC has 11 teams right now (Hawaii doesn't play basketball). Gonzaga makes 12.

  3. #3303
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    The MWC has 11 teams right now (Hawaii doesn't play basketball). Gonzaga makes 12.
    I hadn't heard Hawaii dropped basketball. When did that happen?

  4. #3304
    Quote Originally Posted by Nice Marmot View Post
    I hadn't heard Hawaii dropped basketball. When did that happen?
    They didn't. They play in the Big West in basketball. We played them this year and last year.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  5. #3305
    Quote Originally Posted by brian View Post
    the mwc has 11 teams right now (hawaii doesn't play good basketball). Gonzaga makes 12.
    fify

  6. #3306
    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    They didn't. They play in the Big West in basketball. We played them this year and last year.
    That's why I was confused, like they just recently decided to drop basketball. I guess I wasn't paying attention that they weren't playing in the MWC.

  7. #3307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    Why would anyone take BYU? They bring some value now, but they are a dying brand. Mormonism is falling big time, loyalty to the Church's school is at an all time low, their fanbase is 64 and older, and their on field product is mediocre. For basketball, they are the third best product in the WCC. That isn't anything impressive.
    What they currently bring will still be better than what half the MWC will be able to offer 50 years from now. Bring on UT-SA and they've got an even number of teams.

  8. #3308
    Quote Originally Posted by Nice Marmot View Post
    That's why I was confused, like they just recently decided to drop basketball. I guess I wasn't paying attention that they weren't playing in the MWC.
    Ya, sorry. I meant playing in the MWC.
    And nice 'fify' Applejack.

  9. #3309
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    What they currently bring will still be better than what half the MWC will be able to offer 50 years from now. Bring on UT-SA and they've got an even number of teams.
    Why bring on UTSA? Do they drastically increase the money from their tv deal?

    No. So, you increase costs and nothing else. That’s not smart. UTSA might be a sleeping giant, ala TCU, Houston or Louisville. So, you invite them in, they beat up on the MWC then jump ship in 2024. So, all your schools lost money to prop UTSA up. Not sure that’s a great selling point.

    You think BYU is the class of the MWC right now. Do they significantly increase the tv deal for the MWC?

    If BYU returns, will ESPN redo their deal with the MWC? Right now, MWC teams get about 1 million per year from their deal. Boise St gets around 3 million.

    I doubt that changes. BYU might get 3 or 4 million from ESPN by joining, but the other teams would stay the same.

    So, no real incentive there. BYU would sell more tickets in your stadium. That would be the biggest benefit.

    But, BYU is a headache. They are a scheduling headache. They aren’t pleasant to be around. No one really likes them. So, why add them? Are the seats sold to one game worth the headache?

    I’m not so sure.

  10. #3310
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    Why bring on UTSA? Do they drastically increase the money from their tv deal?

    No. So, you increase costs and nothing else. That’s not smart. UTSA might be a sleeping giant, ala TCU, Houston or Louisville. So, you invite them in, they beat up on the MWC then jump ship in 2024. So, all your schools lost money to prop UTSA up. Not sure that’s a great selling point.

    You think BYU is the class of the MWC right now. Do they significantly increase the tv deal for the MWC?

    If BYU returns, will ESPN redo their deal with the MWC? Right now, MWC teams get about 1 million per year from their deal. Boise St gets around 3 million.

    I doubt that changes. BYU might get 3 or 4 million from ESPN by joining, but the other teams would stay the same.

    So, no real incentive there. BYU would sell more tickets in your stadium. That would be the biggest benefit.

    But, BYU is a headache. They are a scheduling headache. They aren’t pleasant to be around. No one really likes them. So, why add them? Are the seats sold to one game worth the headache?

    I’m not so sure.

    I'm not sure about numbers/potential, but here's one thing: it would be very satisfying for the MWC to have BYU crawl back. The revenge factor may make it worth it.

  11. #3311
    Also, there is already talk of Boise's special treatment and how that should go away. Boise isn't going to BCS bowls anymore. Heck, they've only won their division once in 4 years (I do believe). Some of those schools want Boise to not get special treatment anymore and they are smart to do so. Boise isn't going anywhere. They have no leverage here anymore.

    If Boise is stuck in a hard place, what would BYU do? Why would any of those teams give special considerations to BYU money-wise?

    So, I guess I am changing my stance as I look into this more. If I was a MWC team, I think I'd want BYU in. Bring BYU in, get a little more money, then demand equal pay to all schools, ala the PAC-12. Each school would get an additional $500,000 (approx), but BYU and Boise St would lose millions.

    So why would BYU take that deal? Ha ha. What does all this mean? BYU is screwed. BYU would probably be best served trying to get a scheduling agreement with the MWC. Try to get 5 or 6 games lined up every year and have access to MWC Bowls ala Notre Dame and ACC. But why would the MWC do that deal? Ha ha.

    BYU looks to be stuck in no man's land. They can't beat P5 schools on the regular. Their recruiting has been killed by independence and shows no sign of rebounding. They do not have any interesting games (they lose to most P5 games and all good ones, and they play a smattering of ridiculous teams, with 2-4 "rivalry" games from the MWC), they do not win good games, their bowl games suck, their money sucks and their recruiting sucks.

    Ha ha.

  12. #3312
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    So, no real incentive there. BYU would sell more tickets in your stadium. That would be the biggest benefit.

    But, BYU is a headache. They are a scheduling headache. They aren’t pleasant to be around. No one really likes them. So, why add them? Are the seats sold to one game worth the headache?

    I’m not so sure.
    BYU already has half of these teams on the schedule anyway, so maybe bringing them on for an additional two games isn't worth the headache.

  13. #3313
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    BYU already has half of these teams on the schedule anyway, so maybe bringing them on for an additional two games isn't worth the headache.
    Good point. BYU is really in a rough place right now. They need the MWC teams to play them to fill their schedule. But, the MWC don't need BYU enough to offer any concessions to let BYU back into the MWC. *giggles*

  14. #3314
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    BYU already has half of these teams on the schedule anyway, so maybe bringing them on for an additional two games isn't worth the headache.
    ya, good point.
    I wonder what the $$$ comparison would be for the MWC of byu as a member, vs byu as an independent.
    MWC teams get X playing byu as an OOC game, vs, MWC teams get Y playing byu as a conference game (with the MWC getting a different TV deal with byu as a conference member).

    Is X >, <, or = to Y.

  15. #3315
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    ya, good point.
    I wonder what the $$$ comparison would be for the MWC of byu as a member, vs byu as an independent.
    MWC teams get X playing byu as an OOC game, vs, MWC teams get Y playing byu as a conference game (with the MWC getting a different TV deal with byu as a conference member).

    Is X >, <, or = to Y.
    We know that MWC teams each get about 1.1 million per year from their tv deal. Boise St gets about 3 million. BYU gets about 4 million from ESPN.

    I don't think it would vary too much. So, if you are BYU and can keep your 4 million per year, I'd say it would be a no brainer for BYU to join the MWC. Same money, easier schedules.

    Here is the problem. The MWC deal comes up after 2019 (I think). I read in USA Today that some schools do not like that Boise St gets more money than they do. They talked about how Boise has only won their division once the last 4 years and aren't bringing in the sweet, sweet BCS Bowl money anymore. They were discussing having Boise go back to an equal pay member.

    If that happens, then 1.1 * 10 +3 = a $14,000,000 pot or $1,272,727 per school, an increase of $172,000 per school.

    If you added BYU to that pot (and I don't think BYU would drastically increase the value of the MWC, so I don't think that adding BYU would add any real money to their respective deals. I'd bet that BYU would increase their deal about 4 million per year...what they are currently being paid), then the pot becomes $18,000,000 or $1.5 million per school.

    So, there is real value to adding BYU to the MWC in that case. Each school gets an additional $500,000 per year plus they get the gate receipts when BYU comes to town. Some real value there (and this is going against my initial opinion).

    BUT, if you are BYU, do you take that deal? No way. I don't see the LDS Corp walking away from 2.5 million dollars per year to join the MWC. If you are the MWC, is adding BYU just to add BYU (with no increase in money) worth it to you? Nope. Not only because you'd be treating BYU differently, a school that tried to screw you over with backroom deals, but you'd lose any leverage with Boise, who you are trying to get some money from.

    Ha ha.

  16. #3316
    Interesting details.
    Thanks for putting that together.

  17. #3317
    A flip side to this for BYU is that it's easier for them to get into the tournament in the wcc than it would be in the mwc.

  18. #3318
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    A flip side to this for BYU is that it's easier for them to get into the tournament in the wcc than it would be in the mwc.
    This is an issue they only have to worry about once every 50 years or so.

  19. #3319
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    This is an issue they only have to worry about once every 50 years or so.
    Are you trying to summon Tooblue?

    Dyslexics of the world, untie!

  20. #3320
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    Are you trying to summon Tooblue?

    I don't want him to think we've forgotten about him.

  21. #3321
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    I don't want him to think we've forgotten about him.
    Dang, slow on the switch again ... sorry ... Skim milk? SKIM!! How could you summon me with a picture of SKIM MILK.

    You see, it's much easier to get outraged over the fact you used a picture of skim milk in bags to summon me, than a discussion where a poster opens by telling us how little value BYU has, but then proceeds to tell us over multiple posts just how valuable they supposadly really are ...
    Last edited by tooblue; 03-07-2018 at 05:22 AM.

  22. #3322
    Woke as fetch!




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  23. #3323
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    Woke as fetch!




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  24. #3324
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    We know that MWC teams each get about 1.1 million per year from their tv deal. Boise St gets about 3 million. BYU gets about 4 million from ESPN.

    I don't think it would vary too much. So, if you are BYU and can keep your 4 million per year, I'd say it would be a no brainer for BYU to join the MWC. Same money, easier schedules.

    Here is the problem. The MWC deal comes up after 2019 (I think). I read in USA Today that some schools do not like that Boise St gets more money than they do. They talked about how Boise has only won their division once the last 4 years and aren't bringing in the sweet, sweet BCS Bowl money anymore. They were discussing having Boise go back to an equal pay member.

    If that happens, then 1.1 * 10 +3 = a $14,000,000 pot or $1,272,727 per school, an increase of $172,000 per school.

    If you added BYU to that pot (and I don't think BYU would drastically increase the value of the MWC, so I don't think that adding BYU would add any real money to their respective deals. I'd bet that BYU would increase their deal about 4 million per year...what they are currently being paid), then the pot becomes $18,000,000 or $1.5 million per school.

    So, there is real value to adding BYU to the MWC in that case. Each school gets an additional $500,000 per year plus they get the gate receipts when BYU comes to town. Some real value there (and this is going against my initial opinion).

    BUT, if you are BYU, do you take that deal? No way. I don't see the LDS Corp walking away from 2.5 million dollars per year to join the MWC. If you are the MWC, is adding BYU just to add BYU (with no increase in money) worth it to you? Nope. Not only because you'd be treating BYU differently, a school that tried to screw you over with backroom deals, but you'd lose any leverage with Boise, who you are trying to get some money from.

    Ha ha.
    $2.5 mil is chump change to BYU. BYU will not leave independence for a non-P5 gig due to pride and the inability to admit a mistake. They will continue to talk about how great it is to be able to play throughout the US.

  25. #3325
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    $2.5 mil is chump change to BYU. BYU will not leave independence for a non-P5 gig due to pride and the inability to admit a mistake. They will continue to talk about how great it is to be able to play throughout the US.
    I agree with what you are saying, but BYU is run by LDS-Corp, the cheapest organization out there. From letting members die to save money with the handcarts to making members clean the chapels today, no dollar can be saved at too high a cost.

    Id be shocked if the church would look away from 2.5 million for football.

  26. #3326
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    I agree with what you are saying, but BYU is run by LDS-Corp, the cheapest organization out there. From letting members die to save money with the handcarts to making members clean the chapels today, no dollar can be saved at too high a cost.
    Only a complete ignoramus would make such a comment.

  27. #3327
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Only a complete ignoramus would make such a comment.
    I agree. They already support the school to the tune of a billion or so a year, so $2.5m here and there is chump change by comparison.

  28. #3328
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    I agree. They already support the school to the tune of a billion or so a year, so $2.5m here and there is chump change by comparison.
    I understand you are being obtuse, but the comment about hand carts is beyond the pale. You should be embarrassed for your fellow Ute fan and the flippant nature of his comment.

  29. #3329
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    I understand you are being obtuse, but the comment about hand carts is beyond the pale. You should be embarrassed for your fellow Ute fan and the flippant nature of his comment.
    The part about the handcarts was dumb. But on this board we kind of let dumb stuff go, for the most part.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  30. #3330
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The part about the handcarts was dumb. But on this board we kind of let dumb stuff go, for the most part.
    For which he should be grateful.

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